The Mormon Secret Apocalypse, Will Romney Bring It About?

reply to post by Annee

I've had visions and experiences all my life. Something or someone guides me.

Me too, sort of, and depends on what you call visions. I was trying to describe an auditory equivalent of a vision and not sure what the proper term for it would be. I don't have these things happen often like I described and this is the only experience I have had just like this and I am like in my mid to late fifties. It seems like an experience like I had would be something you would have to take seriously but really how to do that is a little difficult since it does not come with a manual. Maybe I figured that when the time came where this information would be of use, I would also know to some degree what it meant, so I have not been all that concerned over the years and was something way in the back of my mind but on rare occasions would think about for a minute or so. Now all of a sudden this bit of information seems relevant, considering how history is leading.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Thanks! I married a missionary (who has now left the church)
and his family has been life long friend with one of the top dogs whom is an "ordained apostle" so I know more than I probably want to ( not that the "apostle" revealed anything to me, better make that clear now)

reply to post by terra1

I understand that. You can pick things up and make suppositions as to what they mean but it does not mean anyone ever divulged any actual secrets to you nor do you know any actual secrets in any other way.
No, this thread is almost useless in a way since I realize there are things people are not supposed to talk about and I have had discussions with people before about that, so I am not trying to put anyone in some sort of bad position. It may be that I feel I need to put these things up for the record, so to speak.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by teapot

 

In my opinion, the Mormon's 'secret prophesy' is bunk and I have no confidence that a Mormon in the White House would be a good thing.

You mean you think my theory that there could be secret doctrine is bunk?

No, I'm not saying I think your theory is bunk, I'm saying I think Mormon prophesies are bunk!

I don't know that I am actually trying to convince anyone that this is true. I just had this supernatural sort of experience years ago and it seems very real, as I described on the thread I linked to, where I was told about an Angel, Maroni

The Mormons added the 'm' after the 'r' and before the 'o' to represent 'man' and avoid being referred to as the Morons.

....and that it was going to blow a trumpet on a date which the voice specified, and a month and a half or so later, when the date came, I paid special attention to the news to see if anything significant happened on that before-mentioned day. There was in fact something very significant that happened on that day from the point of view of the Mormons, where the football team of their showcase university was announced as the national champions. This would have announced the existence of Mormons to everyone in the world who may not have known of them otherwise, having this college football team on headlines of the sports section of every newspaper.
Anyway, this is what happened to me and I feel under a certain obligation to say something about it, since this is how I understand why I would be given this information to start with, which is I am the sort of person who would end up saying something about it in a public way.

Your 'vision' interests me. I've heard testimony before concerning audible voice but have only experienced it once and that was just one word (the name of an alternative lifestyle magazine, POD, that was published in the UK during the 1990's) with no clue or pointer as to what I should be looking for within the publication!

reply to post by teapot

I was talking about this experience the other day, while considering how exactly to start out this thread, on an internet radio show which was actually someone else's show and I was acting as a call-in sort of co-host, to his eventual annoyance as not being "reality".
Anyway I asked him if he knew what hypnagogic was and I told him it was a state of mind between being asleep and being awake and can also be associated by sleep paralysis symptoms like "old hag" syndrome (which he did not know about either). What I explained was that during this "voice" experience, I went through all three stages, from being totally asleep, and then in a short paralysis state while trying to wake up, to being fully awake and being able to move and sit up, so to me this verifies to me that it was not a product of one particular phenomenon and transcended whatever was going on with me. Also if you were to look up hearing voices in Wikipedia, it gives three basic classifications to them which none of fits this experience. The real test to me was the connection between the name of the Angel, the date told me and the school which ended up being headline news on that day. I never knew quite what to make of it exactly but now I think I do and I was predicting back on those "radio" shows that I felt it was written in stone, so to speak, that Romney was going to be the next president. The key part to understanding the proper interpretation is that I was being told about what some people thought that day meant and not what it really means, such as from God's point of view.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I've heard of this concept. Where the Mormons will save the country when the "constitution hangs by a thread" and the LDS hierarchy will swoop in and save the day by establishing a theocracy and redistributing the wealth.

The problem is that neither Mormons nor Anti-Mormons are particularly honest, so I would like to see original source material for this.

Coincidentally I'm in a dialogue with a number of Mormons and a Mormon bishop at the moment. They honestly have no grasp of history, but they enjoy talking to me because (they're missionaries and they're trying to convert me and) they keep seeing similarities between Orthodoxy and Mormonism. They were so excited when I explained the concept of Theosis to them. Nevermind Mormon apotheosis and Orthodox theosis being ontologically alien to one another. *sigh* The Bishop is bringing his family to the Divine Liturgy soon, so maybe I'm making progress. Anyways, I'm trying to learn about them from them, rather than a Protestant with an axe to grind.

reply to post by kallisti36

I've heard of this concept. Where the Mormons will save the country when the "constitution hangs by a thread" and the LDS hierarchy will swoop in and save the day. . .

That's funny because now that you mention it, it does ring a bell.
I spent some time in Salt Lake City on a scheme with some relatives to demolition old buildings to take the old bricks out to sell as (authentic) antiqued bricks which were all the rage back then.
Like I mentioned earlier, I wanted to get this up for the record before Romney becomes president, so people know I already sort of knew it ahead of time.
I was reading in a book on Millennialism yesterday, that the push now would be to re-start the thing in Missouri, prophesied by Smith to create a new Jerusalem and to bring about a end of the world type scenario.
You should tell your missionary friends that you know someone who had a vision about Moroni blowing his trumpet on January second, 1985 to announce the beginning of the "last days", and see if they will sit around and discuss eschatology. The missionaries were very interested in talking with my (now) former girlfriend's kids (like 18 & 21) up until the time I asked what it would mean if Moroni blew his trumpet, then they never came back, even though I saw the same missionaries down the street a week later, but with a supervisor who probably told them to stay away from my house.

I'm trying to learn about them from them, rather than a Protestant with an axe to grind.

I don't really have anything against them in general but it was really weird for me being in Salt Lake City and having this more than just a sensation that you were a non-person to them.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I'm pretty sure you understood me, but for the record, I wasn't insinuating you had an axe to grind. I'm pretty sure Mormons act differently where they aren't the minority.
Speaking of strange actions, I keep catching them trying to direct the conversation, using semi-hypnotic conversation tactics (almost like NLP, but not very well done, so I don't know if they know that's what they're doing), and avoiding controversial issues. I practically have to force them to make a definitive statement that my Church is in a state of apostasy (*rebellion* against God). We can't both be right and I expect them to back up their claims. Joseph Smith had no problem doing this, it's why so many people hated him. Instead they avoid the sensitive issues just tell me to read the BOM and pray. They also freeze up whenever I point out that their understanding of God is an insult to Him, because not only is he a creation according to them, but he's also subject to matter and time (making them superior to him). Then I ask them "who started it all"? (the prime mover, you know? Aristotelian, yes, but it was necessary) and they go all blank and say, "we don't like to think about that", "we only worship heavenly father, he will always be heavenly father to us", and then I point out that he can't be God Most High if he has a father. I kind of want to give the Bishop Irenaeus' "Against Heresies" and let him come to his own conclusions about the nature of their church.

Anyways, I digress, what does it mean when Moroni blows his trumpet? This sounds like a very esoteric question that could ruin the dialogue I've made so much progress with. Could you explain?

reply to post by kallisti36


No, you are right, if you want to continue a dialog then you can't bring up eschatology, that was my point, if you ever wanted to end it, then that would be the way to do it.
I posted a picture of the statue of Moroni on the temple at Salt Lake.
You would think it might be important, but ask any Mormon and all you get is a blank stare, very odd to me.

Originally posted by Shirak

Telepaths seers, holy men, witchdoctors, Kahunas medicine men Sorcerers, "Witches" Prophets ancients have existed throughout history. So has religious persecution. The man you are dissing died for what he believed in that is he believed in what he understood enough to be subjected to several beatings. Being dipped in hot tar and tortured. This is a matter of public record. When he was arrested and went with the law to jail for being accused of burning down a printing press. The guards stood aside while men with their faces painted dark to hide their identity came into the jail and shot him and his brother dead. This was bigotry.

One might also call a person who made it his business to proselytize "fellow" Christians by telling them that their churches were in apostasy, a bigot. You might also call someone who had a printing press that criticized his teachings destroyed, a bigot. If he was truly anointed by God to do his will, then this modern overused liberal term of 'bigot' is kind of a straw man against him, no? You could call Joshua a bigot, or a terrorist, but if he was for God, then he is justified. It's also a straw man to ascribe the label 'bigot' to someone with valid criticism of Joseph Smith, who did not die a martyr's death, by the way. He died after firing his pepperbox pistol at his attackers and making two thirds of the Masonic sign of distress to save himself ("My Lord and my God [all he managed] is there no help for the widow's son?"). Compare that to the martyrdom of St. Polycarp or if you want to be all Sola Scriptura, then St. Stephen the First Martyr. Compare that to Metropolitan Chrysostomos who was hacked to death by the Turks in 1922 when they burned Smyrna. They plucked out his eyes and dragged him around by the beard, and when he had strength to do so, he raised his hand to bless them and whisper "Father, forgive them" until they cut off his hand and killed him. Who was following Christ?

reply to post by kallisti36


Have they taken you bowling yet?

I want to clarify what happened to me by describing my experience, even if I have already done that several times, but since a lot of it is by following links I posted on this thread, to other threads people would have to explore, I should probably make one concise explanation.

I was woken up one morning back in 1984 by a loud voice in my bedroom that was saying something and as I was in the process of waking up, I began to understand what the voice was saying and it was about some people and their belief in an end times and that they believed that the beginning of that end time would be marked by the angel Moroni blowing his trumpet. By this time I was fully awake and was sitting up and then the voice told me when this event (as believed by these particular people who the voice was talking about) was to occur. I proceeded to get a pen and paper and wrote the date down. Then about a month and a half later, when the date came up that I had written down, I scanned the news to see if anything related to this actually happened. What did happen on that day, which I noted and committed to memory, was the announcement by the authorities in charge of making this decision, the recipient for that season, the title of number one for all the college football teams in the nation. The winner of this championship was Brigham Young University, which was named after the Mormon leader who brought them to Utah. In my mind, this connected to what the voice had told me, seeing how the angel Moroni, as far as I know, is only part of the Mormon religion and none other.

The point of this thread is that for all these years I did not understand what any of this meant but now I think I do and it has to do with an apocalyptic belief by Mormons but maybe only even known of by the higher order initiates within the organization's hierarchy. So there would have been no way for me to know about such a thing or if it even existed unless I was told about it by that voice that I assumed, and still do, was from an angel. feel it is important for me to say something about it, otherwise why was I told about it?