a rant : firearms are not the magical key to survival

Originally posted by ABNARTY

EVERYBODY knows when the SHTF, it will be an endless, oncoming wave of unprepared human parasites intent on stealing my beans. I

Best line I've read all day!

To the OP , I don't know anyone who thinks that a firearm is a magical key to survival. I do know a few who have been in situations where having a firearm saved their bacon.

I am a firearms advocate, It's better to have one and be well versed in its use and not to need it , than to need one and not have one.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


a gun can do that in a different way. a) it protects your stash and b) helps you to take from others what you need.

my bro was in the defence forces, two of them and hypothetically, he asked, Nat, what is the first thing you would do if the SHTF and I was niave and said, well I would go to the supermarket and load up as much food as I could and then hide out somewhere.

He shook head and then I asked, well what would you do? He said, his first stop would be the ammo store and then the supermarket.

how would you protect your family from contaminated people? or others who were contaminated but had more food supplies than you? or those that found your booty and would steal it if they could?

you need a gun when the SHTF and any other weapon you can get your hands on.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by schuyler

 

hi - please read this thread , i could post others

as you are claiming ` strawman arguments ` you might care to re-read my OP - and find the part where i claim that people are advocating a gun as the sole solution

... the gun may just be your only solution to survival. If that is the only thing you have and no food or water... it could be a sole solution.

Hundreds! S & F.

In the first place, firearms is not about survival, but about the taking of a life. Maybe not yours, but someon's.

What if there were only 35 people left in the entire world, and all 35 were so insecure that they shoot the first person they come across. Soon there will be.... well... no survers left at all!

There is no magical solution to be sure. But IF SHTF there will be people wanting your stuff with guns, no matter where you hide. Unless you're in the magical area, the cities will empty and the waves will come. SHTF is terrible, and will be even worse in America with the current state of things. It's very sad.

You don't need a gun, but you may need something to kill someone at a distance unless they walk right up to your sword or chainsaw or whatever. Crossbows will rock.

Excellent point.

Wildlife will be gone within 30 days of a teotwawki event so hunting will not keep you alive.

If you are not prepared with basic necessities, you wont make it.

That being said, if you DO have the basic necessities, you WILL need a firearm to keep them.

Originally posted by bozzchem
reply to post by JibbyJedi

 

Your statement is complete lunacy.

If your statement had any basis in fact the "war" in Iraq would have been over in weeks and all troops gone shortly thereafter.

Make no mistake that if 10% of American Nationals took up arms to regain the freedoms initially won, there would be no stopping them short of self destruction of the nation by the use of WMD. Considering the criminal mindset of those who consider themselves leaders of this nation, they most definitely are the type that would rather destroy the country than allow people to be free.

Just to back that up, at 10% that is 30 MILLION MAN ARMY!!

We'd wipe the tyranny from there ass!!!

Some are delusional to think having a gun and a canteen is all they need. Then there are those that think I dont need anything like a gun because I live in a bubble and have never been witness to violent crimes before, dont harm others and they wont harm you types. Then you have the sprinkle of those that know their rights and like to be prepared for anything that comes their way.

You see I believe that with any item of survival or everyday for that matter, that its better to have that something and not need it, than not and need it desperately. Chances are you will not need to shoot anyone. Lived 37 years in a big city and have not had to yet...but I happen to live in Texas where people know you have a good chance of getting shot if you mess with the wrong person. LOTS of folks carry in Texas so it sort of keeps people in line on that aspect...this is why you see the mass shootings in states that are not as carry friendly, they KNOW its pretty safe to assume that since nobody is allowed to carry a gun , they will have full control over those people and can do what they want till the cavalry arrives. But just 1 CCW in the mix and all the sudden , the scenario is changed drastically.

The odds of TSHTF completely are slim, an all out end of the world as we know it has been talked about since man could read and write. I wont say its impossible, not much is impossible IMHO. But highly unlikely is the term I like to use. But you can bet, if it did go bad...there will be people preying on those that cant defend themselves and will take the stuff you were so nice to hoard for them till the time came.

So there is a fine line between being prepared and being paranoid. But being naive is never good either.

Guns of any sort are tools. Like any tool, it's only as useful as the brain behind it. Personally? If you don't know the proper way to use, and to care for, a gun...you shouldn't be allowed within a hundred yards of one. You'd be more dangerous than useful...

Proper training. Proper practice. Both are essential. ...and, for crying out loud, get one that you in a moment of crisis, can use without having to check and make sure the safety is off. Or, in other words, as idiot proof as possible.

My own personal weapon is a somewhat battered Smith and Wesson .38 special revolver. It's just about as idiot proof as it gets... and, I hit what I aim at, and I have several speed loaders for quick reload. ...and I practice on a regular basis for quick reloads.

My shotgun is a double 12 gauge, that can be used for just about any purpose.

My rifle is an ordinary Savage 30-30 bolt action with a peep site. ...I'm accurate out to about 300 yds with it. More than sufficient for my purposes.

I also learned when I was a boy, how to reload, though I am a little out of practice now. It's something I intend to remedy in the very near future.

I've no need for anything bigger, or supposedly better...

Guns are tools. Fancier doesn't necessarily equate to better. The bells and whistles, the more likely it is to break when you need it the most...

ok - the final word - for everyone that claims i am " misrepresenting opinion " - in thread after thread , idiots [ i use the term correctly ] advocate " get a gun " - thats it , thier ONLY advice , not :

get a gun and a cache of food , water ,fuel , tools and survival equipt

not get a gun and training

just :

" get a gun "

even when its obvious that the OP they are replying too has clear deficiencies in thier survial prep - they insist on only addresssing the SINGLE issue of firearms

the thread OP i cited in my response to a previos poster didnt even have a knife or multi tool in thier go bag , but 3 people gave the" advice " of get a gun - with NO other advice

many people in this thread and other seem to be stuck in the delusion that they dont need all the other survival equipment and provisions AND a gun , byt that ALL they need is the gun - and the rest will " fall into their lap "

the gun advocates have rather conveniently ignored the minor fact that i never said ` dont get a gun ` - but my consisant advice has been you need equimpenrt , provisions and guns

and that it is my opinion that the gun is the final fall back when nothing else will effect a solution not the first choice

and to round off - the notion that a gun will get you everything else you need - is so idiotic it hurts

with firerms , equiment , supplies and fuels - you can attempt to go under the radar - using everything but you fireams to keep you alive - and saving firearms for that tipping point where its do or die

with only firearms - you have to be prepared to come ot shooting to get anything - and only the delusional will cling to the notion that only they have firearms - and thats the crux -

other people will have firearms too - and know how to use them - and be on thier ` home terretory ` - that they know better than you , and have allies

the delusion that a firearm is going to garner you al the other equipment and provisions you need is truely idiotic

any fool can shoot himself into a situation - very few can shoot thier way out of it

reply to post by ignorant_ape


I quoted the scene from the movie Contagion. He was a father, that lost a wife, and a young son, but he and his daughter survived. They were entirely unprepared, in a large city. They were locked down in quarantine and martial law, with no food, no tools, no farm. They were entirely reliant on MRE's from the military, and the goodwill of their neighbors which very quickly turned into violence and chaos instead of good will.

"Get a Gun"

As you have said is the only advice from some people, is highly inadequate, but, in a situation like in that movie, "Get a Gun" is still very, very important!

Even without food, without survival prep, without gun training, without foraging for food or hunting, or living off the land. Even without all of those things, when 3 criminals came in the night, and murdered his neighbors, he was left entirely helpless. He needed a gun.

So, "Get a Gun" is the #1 most important thing anyone should think of, even if they don't do a minutes worth of other survival prep. A gun is the great equalizer. On those cold dark nights, when there are no police, no lights, no decent food, just you and your family, at least you can feel somewhat empowered to protect those people you love. You might fail, you might be outgunned, outmanned, or caught off-guard. Guns are not magical, but they do give you a fighting chance in any situation, so that is something to hold onto! Guns are the great equalizer. They take "force" out of the equation, and they force people to deal in the business of reason and persuasion instead of force.

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang-banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

Source, wrong author though

reply to post by getreadyalready


Getting a gun is a great idea, but there are practical problems with that for some people, such as those in countries with strict gun control. That said, I agree with you on the effect the gun will have on a person's moral if they have nothing else, that said, as you pointed out, guns will not guarantee your survival. The OP's point seems to be that people focus so much on guns that they ignore, or don't give enough attention to, other forms of preparations. There are times when having a gun will keep you alive, but there are also times when the same gun will only get you killed.

reply to post by FreedomKnight


You could not have said it better. Government is the thought and soul of the people. There is an evil that has cover this nation that well not be removed until we, as a people, understand how and why we stand as The United States. We get what we want from the Government..... But if and (when) this alice in wondland fails, I can fall back on a Quote that has a truth that holds to this day. "God may have made us in his on image.. Colt, Rugar, Smith&Wisson, made all of us equal". An Quote from We Were Soldies.. " 1ST Sergeant you need to check out a rifle,.. there will be enough of them on the ground when I need one."

reply to post by JibbyJedi


I'm not sure I agree. Both Napoleon and Hitler learned a lesson about unsophisticated forces when they invaded Russia. The British also fell prey to this arrogant belief. The Russians failed in Afganistan and If I remember we didn't do so hot in Vietnam (although no the troops fault). Technology is not only dictating factor in combat. With that said, given the option of a gun or my knife...I'll take the knife. It doesn't run out of ammo and I can always use it to get a gun if I need to.......Just some thoughts.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


With a firearm you could extract all that info from someone that was trying to kill you in your sleep.

Of course guns are not the key to survival. Guns are, however, at least by some considered to be exceptionally cool.

I suspect you have misunderstood the purpose of Survivalism. The task of a Survivalist is to attempt to emulate the military (and also appear "badass," more generally) as closely as possible, while still actually remaining a civilian.

The purpose of Survivalism is not, for one moment, to actually increase one's chances of survival in a theoretical dangerous situation. I am uncertain as to how you could have developed such a strange idea.

You can use a gun to get anyone to tell you where the water is even if it has 0 bullets. Would you risk a bullet to not share?

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Yes I agree with you. I dont think people have a clue about surviving. The most important thing in survival is a community and I am lucky to have one were I live...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Yes I agree..cause the firearm will in the end run out of ammo and you will probably throw it away. A survival knife can also be used for hunting and protection as well as provide wood for fire and building tents. A machette would be ideal as its hardy for chopping purposes. I'd take a machette and a survival knife as back up anytime.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Try hunting any animal without one, and you'll see why a firearm is the best purchase you can make to aid survival. Taking game with a gun is as simple as pointing and clicking.

Another good reason to carry a gun is mentioned in a recent movie.

Character A: "Why do you carry one?"
Character B: "Same priniciple as a condum. I'd rather have it, and not need it, than need it, and not have it."

When there's a gun pointed at you, let me know how well asking the lunatic to talk about it works. There is no reset button, no respawn timer, no second chances to be more prepared next time. Be prepared at all times or accept the fact that anyone with a gun can take your life, and there's not a thing you can do about it.

Does your car have a spare tire in the trunk? They all come with one from the factory. You may never need it. Everyone carrys one because they can't be bothered with needless walking. I carry a gun because I can't be bothered with needless dieing.