Man arrested for not tipping at NY restaurant

Actually, although you seem to have changed the purpose into a diatribe about people who do not tip the way you would personally like them to, the point of the thread is NOT whether to tip or not, it is whether requiring MANDATORY tipping is LEGAL or not. If the case goes to court, I would guess the restaurant will loose.

If you had read my entire post, you would know that Dom at least DOES pass profits along to good employees by way of higher wages. The success of his business and the apparent happiness of his employees makes that quite evident.

You chip is very obvious, your question was very sarcastic, opinions are not facts...and like I said, if you are that unhappy with your situation, only you can change it....





[edit on 12-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Tipping is a custom... not a rule or law. To arrest someone for it is pathetic. A tip is earned. It is not an entitlement. It is a way a customer says thank you for your good service. I go out to eat often. By often I mean I have eaten at home less than two dozen times in the past year. I can afford to go out all I want. Plus I am a bad cook. When I go out the servers know me. They know I tip well and I get great service. Every once in a while I will get some new slacker that never shows up to the table and doesn't even as much as smile when he/she comes over to the table. Why should I reward that with a 15% tip? Hell no! This is how you weed out bad help. If they are lousy servers and they aren't making any money they will move on. Those who do serve me and do a good job will make 30%+.

Again.. you EARN a tip. You are NOT entitled to it.

Here's a shock...i agree with Indy 100%....


wow...about choked on that one...

CAll it a service charge, for large parties.
Make it 10-12 %.
If the service is GOOD, or GREAT, adjust the Tip accordingly.

A Mandatory Tip allows for Really Crappy Service.
My wife and I discuss this VERY often.
We make a point to leave a nice tip if service is good.

If it's BETTER than good, we leave a bigger tip, AND
we talk to the manager on duty, to express our gratitude verbally as well.

Guess how good the service is, the next time we go into a place, where we have made notice of the service..It's great!

The owners name was Soprano huh? LOL

Originally posted by spacedoubt
CAll it a service charge, for large parties.
Make it 10-12 %.
If the service is GOOD, or GREAT, adjust the Tip accordingly.

A Mandatory Tip allows for Really Crappy Service.
My wife and I discuss this VERY often.
We make a point to leave a nice tip if service is good.

If it's BETTER than good, we leave a bigger tip, AND
we talk to the manager on duty, to express our gratitude verbally as well.

Guess how good the service is, the next time we go into a place, where we have made notice of the service..It's great!

The owners name was Soprano huh? LOL

I agree with everything EXCEPT the "service charge for large parties". Again, BAD BUSINESS!!! If I am a person looking for a place for a group to eat, I am definatly NOT going to go somewhere that charges extra for large parties. I will avoid them like the plague. Period.

My friends who own restaurants do not do this, they welcome large parties, give them great service, and they have them in all the time. they are a hot commodity because of this.

Most waiters have mandatory tipouts.....1% to the bar, 2% to the busers who split it. If you have $1000 in sales, $10 goes to the bar, $20 goes to the busers. A large group comes in and racks up a $300 bill, $3 goes to the bar and $6 goes to the bussers so already the waiter is out $9. So an automatic grat is 15% or $45 but after tipout is $36. Another 1% goes to a food runner if you have one, another $3, brings server down to $33.

Every restarant that auto grats large parties always have this clearly printed on their menus.

I could understand a minimum tip for higher-class restaurants if and only if it is posted in clear language that a tip is mandatory. However, I would never tip someone that was not a good waiter/waitress, which is exactly why I usually never end up tipping someone. If I am going to give someone a tip they better be courteous, polite, and helpful and not rude, snotty, and unpleasant. If I went into a high-class restaurant where a tip was mandatory and I was treated rudely or badly, then there is no way I would leave them a tip whether it was mandatory or not.

Now...being arrested for it...thats just going too far!

I have only ever had one snotty server, a man who refused to look at or talk to the two women at the table (me and my mother) while dealing with the only man (my bf). He got change for a tip. The rest of the time, I usually tip 20% or so. That's more often now that I've worked as a waitress. It also helps if you treat the server like a person, and ask them how they're doing (at least sound sincere) and be nice. There's never a reason to be crappy with someone simply because they're serving you.

For the most part, I agree with everything esther has said here; she's dead on on this topic.

The Australian have it under control, just make the meal more expensive and pay the waiter/waitress a decent wage. I made in my youth $A16/h at a local Italian restaurant and recieved a tip most of the time.
I'm not a fan of the hiden costs in th US, sales tax being a prime example. Here our sales tax is included in the price not added after you get to the counter.b

It would be nice if tipping guidelines were in big bold print on the menu so the customers wouldn't have to guess if they aren't clear. I live in the Southeast and actually thought a 10% tip was the customary tip. Maybe it is for here but after reading this thread it sounds like it is at least 15% in other places. I remember leaving a 10% tip in some places and the waitress acted like I was leaving a really big tip (maybe the customary tip was less there, I'm not sure). I would really like it if the restaurants just paid waitresses enough money so that tipping was not expected. I go to restaurants so infrequently that most waitresses never remember me anyway. If a waitress or restaurant gives really bad service, I just don't go there again for a very long time if ever.

If tipping is mandatory as it sounds like it was in this case, it needs to be clearly posted somewhere. Mandatory tipping should be made evident to the customers as soon as they order so that they may leave immediately without paying if they so choose without worrying about getting arrested. If it's not clear, it should be the restaurants loss. I believe the restaurants should automatically pay waitresses fair wages and just eliminate tipping. There is alot of confusion when it comes to the issue of when, where, and how much to tip for the infrequent customers.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by orionthehunter]

this is just rediculous. who are these people working these restaurants that they feel they have to ravagely hunt people down for extra money. come on wheres the positive service?

what savages if you ask me. greed is spilling out of their throats.
JUST ATROCIOUS

Your waiter or waitress did get the minimum wage or better. no incentive to provide an excellent experience. Hello mcdonalds, now go fill your own cup and wipe your own table down before you sit!. Regionaly tips vary, such as in NY, New England area 15-20%. I have on occasion tipped 30%+ for a good meal and service.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by IntelRetard]

OK, Im a server and i do well. The mandatory tip for parties is normal and can indeed be binding. It is printed in the menu.Of course, crappy service, then talk to the manager and they will take care of it. I use it as a back up. like a party of 12 teenagers? hell ya im gonna grat them. little pukes dont know how to tip. run ya ragged for 2 hours, fill up your table then leave you 2 dollars. no way. im hittin them with it and aint gonna tell them either, cuz they never check it.

now a party of adults and drinkin, im not puttin it on there, cuz alot of times they will tip more. if its on there, then they never leave extra. I couldnt help but notice the customers last name. mexican. they never tip well. sorry, but its true. 10% if your lucky. usually, its 5 bucks on an 80 dollar tab. id grat em to. this guy had it comin. good for the rest.

I love the views that, if your service is good you should get a bigger tip, I may be from the UK, but when I go out for food I expect the service to be good as a minimum, after all, the waiter/waitress is a professional and therefore should do a professional job.

As for tipping, I tip and I think I tip well, normally about 15-20%, but for that, I expect unobtrusive prompt polite service, not too much to ask for Id have thought.

But Im afraid if I was in a restaraunt where the service was not polite prompt and unobtrusive, I would not want to leave a tip, oir at least it would be significantly reduced. I understand in the US it is mostly manadatory, the service charge is steadily creeping in in the UK as well, but my point is, why should I supplement a waiter/waitress for their pay especially if Im not happy with the service I recieved? After all the US is not a 3rd world country, and any employee must make minimum wage (maybe the minimum needs to be re-set).

Another point about tipping is why do certain parts of society seem eligible for tips yet others dont ?

After all, we regularly tip restaraunt staff, barstaff, barbers and taxi's but no-one ever tips the bus driver (again poorly paid), the bin man (except the odd Christmas tip), the drains cleaner or the counter staff in the bank.

I suppose the argument will be, they get enough pay anyway, well dont barbers make a good living, arn't most restaraunt owners well off enough to pay their staff properly ?

Originally posted by philstix
I love the views that, if your service is good you should get a bigger tip, I may be from the UK, but when I go out for food I expect the service to be good as a minimum, after all, the waiter/waitress is a professional and therefore should do a professional job.

As for tipping, I tip and I think I tip well, normally about 15-20%, but for that, I expect unobtrusive prompt polite service, not too much to ask for Id have thought.

But Im afraid if I was in a restaraunt where the service was not polite prompt and unobtrusive, I would not want to leave a tip, oir at least it would be significantly reduced. I understand in the US it is mostly manadatory, the service charge is steadily creeping in in the UK as well, but my point is, why should I supplement a waiter/waitress for their pay especially if Im not happy with the service I recieved? After all the US is not a 3rd world country, and any employee must make minimum wage (maybe the minimum needs to be re-set).

Another point about tipping is why do certain parts of society seem eligible for tips yet others dont ?

After all, we regularly tip restaraunt staff, barstaff, barbers and taxi's but no-one ever tips the bus driver (again poorly paid), the bin man (except the odd Christmas tip), the drains cleaner or the counter staff in the bank.

I suppose the argument will be, they get enough pay anyway, well dont barbers make a good living, arn't most restaraunt owners well off enough to pay their staff properly ?

wrong wrong wrong. we make $2.13 an hour. there is no law that says you have to tip. 15-20$ is cool. though we like 20%. it makes a difference. i always give good service and do quite well. there are some who i admit, are terrible and have no business in the biz. but when you find a good one, you will come back. my regulars are treated to free soup and soft drinks from time to time and they love it. always leave a little extra.

your right to expect good service. not perfect, but good. a lot of things happen are out of our control. we go through alot to give you the "illusion" of perfection. believe me.

but remember. we make 2.13 an hour. we need you. it aint like youll be sittin around when your 80 wishin you had that 10 bucks back you dropped on me 50 years ago..

To everyone...
See the diner scene in "Reservoir Dogs". Seems to sum up this discussion pretty well.

Im not having a pop at you, just the tipping phenomenon in general.

Tipping first came around when wealthy landowners, would give their workers a little extra for a really good job, whereupon the worker would "tip" his cap to his lord and master in thanks for the recognition.

It has carried through that certain lower paid professions are eligible for tips, but this has now been used by tight managers/owners as a way to pay staff as low a rate as possible, saying that the staff must make it up with tips.

However, from the customers point of view, why, when you are paying top dollar for a meal should you then have to also pay extra to make up the staff wages ?

I would far rather the staff were paid a fair rate to start with, and then I could reward those staff whom I thought deserved the extra gratuity.

Originally posted by esther
there is no job that is more grueling and thankless than being a servant to other people.

I think teachers have you well and truly beat there, plus those guys tend to carry on about it a whole lot less.

Point of order, in any job are we not servants to other people ?



[edit on 13-9-2004 by philstix]

then you pay 30 dollars for a steak cuz i aint workin for free. how they gonna pass off the cost of payin me? you. think about it.