NASA needs to be Scrapped: What about.....?

I think that the biggest barrier to space travel right now is NASA itself. All this talk about this new culture of safety, when all we really have and will have is a culture of covering your own ass. NASA needs to be changed from the top down.

What do people think about this:

Set up NASA along the line of a "Skunk Works" model. Small group of engineers and little to no Red Tape. Let the engineers call the shots. Right now the tail wags the dog. Eliminate all the middle and upper level drones who justify thier salaries and positions by generating memos etc. Everyone in the NASA heirachy would have to have some engineering background and spend some of thier time doing non-admin tasks? All activities would be consoladated at a few bases instead of all over. Why mission controll has to be in Texas is beyond me. Why not at the cape? Johnson is dead, he wont care.

The other is to get the public more interested. Gone are the Glenns, the Shepards etc. WHile science is the goal of space flight, there are no larger than life heros for new generations to point to. Sorry but Storey Musgrave does nothing for me. A few personalities would make it more intersting and give people something to focus on etc.

Nasa needs to learn from there mistakes, and other people achievments. They need to take a page out of the Airforce book, and pick 2-3 companies to build there next gen spacecraft, the best one wins.

Also, I wish they would not stop the whole shuttle program (again), just because of a accidental fatal crash. Dont get me wrong, I want space to be a safe place, but stopping the program for over 2 years is rediculous. Nasa does need a way bigger budget though, I would like to see around 20 billion or more. and to NOT make International ties with other countries on something as big (for instance) the ISS, That way we could of got rid of that burden a while ago.

I agree on your layout. Get rid of the red tape BS, and get the best scientists in the world working together, and give them the freedom to be creative.

Some great ideas here!

Originally posted by Murcielago
pick 2-3 companies to build there next gen spacecraft, the best one wins

A bidding system would workable especially if there were a provision that mandated that the developers would be able access and utilize Black Technology that is within their domain.

Originally posted by FredT
... get the public more interested.

Hard to do without some serious personalities tied to some serious project ... how about a Mars project that is shown regularly on TV as a 'Reality Show'?

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Get rid of the red tape BS

While some documentation and safety measures should be maintained, possibly there are a few instances where two much oversight is being practiced.

Originally posted by FredT

What do people think about this:

Set up NASA along the line of a "Skunk Works" model. Small group of engineers and little to no Red Tape. Let the engineers call the shots. Right now the tail wags the dog. Eliminate all the middle and upper level drones who justify thier salaries and positions by generating memos etc. Everyone in the NASA heirachy would have to have some engineering background and spend some of thier time doing non-admin tasks? All activities would be consoladated at a few bases instead of all over. Why mission controll has to be in Texas is beyond me. Why not at the cape? Johnson is dead, he wont care.

The other is to get the public more interested. Gone are the Glenns, the Shepards etc. WHile science is the goal of space flight, there are no larger than life heros for new generations to point to. Sorry but Storey Musgrave does nothing for me. A few personalities would make it more intersting and give people something to focus on etc.

I agree with both of your points. With regards to your first point, it would depend on how much control the government or military could retain over what is accomplished. I personally feel that NASA is largely a front for military projects that get the lion's share of the funding. Sattelite technology keeps improving by leaps and bounds yet we are still using creaky, old space shuttles for exploration. I don't know how much of this scenario would change even if your idea was fully implemented. Some of the best minds in the business stay away from NASA specifically due to the fact that they would have be beholden to them in some way. The privatization of space may be the only way out of the mess though we would be exchanging one evil for another, government for corporate control. In the long run I would prefer corporate. Their main motivation would be money, the governments main motivation for many years was simply competition, which doesn't have the same motivating force it did when we were racing against the Soviets.

As far as the public is concerned...I gave on them a long time ago. Despite living in the information age we have one of the worst educated generations in recent American history. Too many entertainment distractions, etc.

Good ideas though, I like your line of thinking.



[edit on 10-9-2004 by Weller]

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Weller]

Chuck Stevenson
A bidding system would workable especially if there were a provision that mandated that the developers would be able access and utilize Black Technology that is within their domain.

Very good point. Black Technology will be crucial to have a successfull Spaceship. One that can mean cheaper access to space and even safer and more often. I would think a hybrid craft of a PDE and Scramjet integrated together to make a 2 stage spaceplane.

Scramjets needs to be going at least mach 4-5 to work, and Pulse Detonation engine can take off from the ground and can at least hit mach 4. The scramjet can go well over mach 10, and if they cant hit mach 25, they could still make a good sub-orital vehicle.

Some say that PDE's can hit over mach 10, if thats the case then i would integrate a PDE with a Rocket, and that would definatly get her into orbit.

How can private space agencies get funding?

NASA of course gets money from Tax payers. I think NASA needs to step up.
Bush said... We are going to the Moon and Mars and NASA Said... We are?

The Space Race, or whatever you call it, should never be motivated by profits. I think it makes sense that we use our tax dollars to explore space.

Getting the publics attention though.. Now that's some tough stuff to tackle. No one seems to care anymore except "geeks and nerds"

If there was ever a reality show that failed it would be space related.. Unless it was "Sex in space" or "Trading Planets" That would be interesting. Stick a man on mars and keep the cameras on him for a month. FOX... Let's start talking numbers

Actually I'm planning on studying Aerospace Engineering and eventually make my way into NASA. Any more plans? I'll slap some people around and should get this idea started.

Originally posted by Thatoneguy
How can private space agencies get funding?

NASA of course gets money from Tax payers. I think NASA needs to step up.
Bush said... We are going to the Moon and Mars and NASA Said... We are?

The Space Race, or whatever you call it, should never be motivated by profits. I think it makes sense that we use our tax dollars to explore space.

Getting the publics attention though.. Now that's some tough stuff to tackle. No one seems to care anymore except "geeks and nerds"

If there was ever a reality show that failed it would be space related.. Unless it was "Sex in space" or "Trading Planets" That would be interesting. Stick a man on mars and keep the cameras on him for a month. FOX... Let's start talking numbers

Alot of people think space tourism will be the starting factor for private space agencies. Theres already people that would pay 20 million to go into space.

I think the real profits will be from space mining. There are some M-type asteroids out there worth more then the entire worth of the United states. There was one estimated to have 200 trillion dollars worth of metal in it. Granted that would drive the price of most metals down but theres alot of profits to be made out there.

Alot of people think space tourism will be the starting factor for private space agencies. Theres already people that would pay 20 million to go into space.

I think the real profits will be from space mining. There are some M-type asteroids out there worth more then the entire worth of the United states. There was one estimated to have 200 trillion dollars worth of metal in it. Granted that would drive the price of most metals down but theres alot of profits to be made out there.

Good points. I guess mining is a big thing. I've seen it in some Science Fiction movies.

But space tourism, in its early stages, will only be available for the super rich, obvioulsly. So that will not bring in the $$$.

Okay back to my man on mars tv show. lol

How about the next guy that wants to fly in space agrees to do the show. Just think of the money they would make from ads. Adidas could pay a few million for the guy to wear one of their shirts. He could drink a coke. Maybe even build a Wal-Mart there. Oh wait... Nevermind. If there is life on mars, we dont want to scare them off with a Wal-mart.

Originally posted by Thatoneguy


Okay back to my man on mars tv show. lol

How about the next guy that wants to fly in space agrees to do the show. Just think of the money they would make from ads. Adidas could pay a few million for the guy to wear one of their shirts. He could drink a coke. Maybe even build a Wal-Mart there. Oh wait... Nevermind. If there is life on mars, we dont want to scare them off with a Wal-mart.

Thats a interesting concept, I remember one movie about a manned mission to mars I think it was Species 2. But the craft that went to Mars had all these corporate sponsor. They had like a Pepsi sign on the side of the craft Kind of like a Nascar or something.

I also think Russian cosmonauts have already done this sort of thing. I think a remember a Russian commercial for something like milk. With a cosmonaut drinking milk with it floating around in zero-Gs it was pretty cool.

Perhaps there could be something to this in the future of space travel

Great picture Murcielago that might very well be the future. If thats a good or a bad thing I cant say.

Originally posted by Murcielago
I would think a hybrid craft of a PDE and Scramjet integrated together to make a 2 stage spaceplane.

Sounds good for getting Men into space and back, but how about gettting the robots I discussed in another thread? A space elevator system would be great for moving freight up to an orbital station, while a electromotive device (railgun) could be placed on the Moon for shipping freight from the Moon to high or low earth orbit.

by ShadowXIXI think the real profits will be from space mining. There are some M-type asteroids out there worth more then the entire worth of the United states. There was one estimated to have 200 trillion dollars worth of metal in it. Granted that would drive the price of most metals down but theres alot of profits to be made out there.

Yes there are huge amounts of Titanium and other metals including the Paladium family, Platinum and others, Nickel, Iron, Metalic Oxygen. Many of these are also well represented on the moon.

by ThatOneGuy
But space tourism, in its early stages, will only be available for the super rich, obvioulsly. So that will not bring in the $$$.

Unless we have a Moon base! People go to exotic locations so that they can experience something different and tell their friends about it, the Moon would be really different. One thing to consider, as any hotelier would tell you, is that you also must provide the tourist with luxury amenities and 'homey' activities. How about a Casino on the Moon? Cinema, night clubs, restaurants, spas? The demand would certainly drive the market for that.

That picture is absolutely classic! Just be careful what you 'wish' for!

My god... I hope I never see a shuttle dressed up like a race car

Pizza Hut already ahead of the game It's old news though

news.bbc.co.uk...
[edit on 11-9-2004 by Thatoneguy]

[edit on 11-9-2004 by Thatoneguy]

Originally posted by Chuck Stevenson
Unless we have a Moon base! People go to exotic locations so that they can experience something different and tell their friends about it, the Moon would be really different. One thing to consider, as any hotelier would tell you, is that you also must provide the tourist with luxury amenities and 'homey' activities. How about a Casino on the Moon? Cinema, night clubs, restaurants, spas? The demand would certainly drive the market for that.

That picture is absolutely classic! Just be careful what you 'wish' for!

I want to see a basketball court on a Moon Hotel if they ever build one. Imagine how cool that would be. I could just imagine a 30ft high hoop and you could still dunk on it. Or even a normal size hoop that anyone could see what its like to dunk. Everyone can jump on the moon Heck every sport on the moon would be new and interesting.

A casino is another great idea there aint no laws to stop gambling up there.

Originally posted by Thatoneguy
The Space Race, or whatever you call it, should never be motivated by profits. I think it makes sense that we use our tax dollars to explore space.

I must disagree here Profits will be the ONLY thing that gets into space.

If there is a way to make a buck on it you would see hotels on Mars in 10 years

Actually, commercializing space is the only way we (meaning people like you and me) will ever have an opportunity to go into space. Competitions like the XPrize will hopefully lead to a sort of space tourism, and if you look at the history of passenger airplanes, it went from $50,000 a ticket (today's money) to $125.00 a ticket for the same distanced trip.

Once we have independent companies doing regular flights into space, and it's become more or less reliable and moderately safe, you'll have tens of thousands of people lining up to buy a $5,000 ticket to fly in a "space plane" just for the sake of being able to go into space - even if it's only for 20 or 30 minutes.

ShadowXIX
I want to see a basketball court on a Moon Hotel if they ever build one. Imagine how cool that would be. I could just imagine a 30ft high hoop and you could still dunk on it. Or even a normal size hoop that anyone could see what its like to dunk. Everyone can jump on the moon

Heck every sport on the moon would be new and interesting.

Moon Olympics

Where do you find these great picture Murcielago I was looking at the area in the far right I think that looks like a weight lifter back there. Look how big the weights are That would be a whole lot of weight. Swimming I never thought of I wonder if you could pop out of the water like a dolphin?Flying with bird wings how cool would that be.

Im not rich by any means but I would pay $10,000 for a trip like that in a heart beat.