A Challenge

Here we are in 2012. The supposed last year of the Mayan Long Count. But is it really? That's my challenge to you. We keep seeing claims that the Long Count ends after 13 baktun or that the Long Count is composed of 13 baktun cycles. My challenge is to prove it. There are two parts to this. First, find an example of a Long Count that ends after 13 baktun. The second part is to then explain why this Long Count is more important than those ones that are either longer or shorter. You would think that with all that has been written about 2012 that this will be a simple task, but I have a feeling it will be harder than you think.

Here we are just about 12 hours later and not a single person has responded. Why do so many of you buy into the 2012 hype when you can't even provide an example of a Long Count that ends on December 21, 2012? This highlights a problem with many supporters of "alternative" theories. They buy into a theory without any scrutiny or independent research simply because it's alternative. In the end though the alternative media lies just as much as the mainstream media. If ATS truly wants to deny ignorance its members need to start doing their own independent research instead of posting every article from Prison Planet, Natural News, and SOTT.

The problem here is that you are asking for factual information instead of fanciful tales.

I'm sure that those that read your challenge are simply overwhelmed by the simplicity of the task.

I find your challenge to be an excellent chance for 2012 believers to show off their talents if they have the moxie to try.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


in just about every online venue - it has been shown again and again that the mayan had in place callender ` divisions ` to seamlessly count far beyond 2012 ,

but believers just ignore the evidence - its the " i want to believe " mentality

throw in the hoaxers , snake oil salesmen and newage idiot - and it becomes a cult following

personally - i am waiting to see what the excuses are going to be in jan 2013 , i predict blame will focus on " negativity from skeptics "

Since alot of people use Wiki for examples of proof, I post this excerp from Wiki, that states that there are indeed 20 b'ak'tuns, and not 13. Of corse there are other examples.....

Since Calendar Round dates repeat every 18,980 days, approximately 52 solar years, the cycle repeats roughly once each lifetime, so a more refined method of dating was needed if history was to be recorded accurately. To specify dates over periods longer than 52 years, Mesoamericans used the Long Count calendar.

The Maya name for a day was k'in. Twenty of these k'ins are known as a winal or uinal. Eighteen winals make one tun. Twenty tuns are known as a k'atun. Twenty k'atuns make a b'ak'tun.

The Long Count calendar identifies a date by counting the number of days from the Mayan creation date 4 Ahaw, 8 Kumk'u (August 11, 3114 BC in the proleptic Gregorian calendar or September 6 in the Julian calendar). But instead of using a base-10 (decimal) scheme like Western numbering, the Long Count days were tallied in a modified base-20 scheme. Thus 0.0.0.1.5 is equal to 25, and 0.0.0.2.0 is equal to 40. As the winal unit resets after only counting to 18, the Long Count consistently uses base-20 only if the tun is considered the primary unit of measurement, not the k'in; with the k'in and winal units being the number of days in the tun. The Long Count 0.0.1.0.0 represents 360 days, rather than the 400 in a purely base-20 (vigesimal) count.

Table of Long Count units



Days

Long Count period

Long Count period

Approx solar years



1

= 1 K'in







20

= 20 K'in

= 1 Winal

0.0548



360

= 18 Winal

= 1 Tun

0.985



7,200

= 20 Tun

= 1 K'atun

19.7



144,000

= 20 K'atun

= 1 B'ak'tun

394.3


There are also four rarely used higher-order cycles: piktun, kalabtun, k'inchiltun, and alautun.

Since the Long Count dates are unambiguous, the Long Count was particularly well suited to use on monuments. The monumental inscriptions would not only include the 5 digits of the Long Count, but would also include the two tzolk'in characters followed by the two haab' characters.

Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a popular belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the day that the calendar will go to the next b'ak'tun.

Sandra Noble, executive director of the Mesoamerican research organization FAMSI, notes that "for the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle". She considers the portrayal of December 2012 as a doomsday or cosmic-shift event to be "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in.

The challenge has not been addressed. I'm not surprised.

Is it not for the person posing the question to research for themselves? That's how I look at it. I could say 'prove God exists' but you can't. End of.

reply to post by Pr0t0


The challenge clearly states that the OP is not aware of anything that supports the 2012 claims.

Do you have any knowledge about this issue? I believe that the OP is correct.

reply to post by Pr0t0


That's the point. I've done the research. Others on here have not. They are buying into the claims of New Age authors without actually verifying any of their claims. I'm trying to show people that just because something is "alternative" or fringe doesn't make it true. There are people on here that act much more like sheople than the people they mock. I'm trying to illustrate that just because someone like Jose Arguelles or John Major Jenkins says something doesn't make it true. It's obvious though that there are many people here that do take these claims without scrutinizing them as there are many people on here claiming that 2012 marks the end of the Long Count, yet not a single one has come in here and provided an example of this.

The Mayans are still around.
They have been asked.
They said no.
The end of the world was not even part of their ideology.
Calendars have ends.
mine ends in December every year.

What did I win?

reply to post by Kafternin


Why do you think that asking today's Mayans is worthwhile? Were particular experts in the field asked?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Kafternin

 

Why do you think that asking today's Mayans is worthwhile? Were particular experts in the field asked?

Who would you suggest the Mayans ask about Mayan history, philosophy, belief structure, method of timekeeping, worldview then?

reply to post by Kafternin


An expert in the field.

Are you going to ask modern Egyptians about ancient Egypt or an expert int he field?
Are you going to ask a modern resident of Stratford on Avon about Shakespeare or an expert in the field?
Are you going to ask a modern Greek politician to read ancient Greek or an expert in the field?

The Mayan spokespeople are not experts in their field. They are attempting to use their race as some sort of credential.