"EVERYTHING" is brainwashing and Mind control

Originally motivated by the "is Christianity brainwashing?" and is the "Namaste crowd - another Mind Control layer?" Threads....

I present t you this: EVERYTHING is Brainwashing. Your friends, your family, all books, all TV programs, parents, kids, school, pretty much everything that makes the mind label things is all Brainwashing and Mind control and its worldwide and does not discriminate with just Namaste Crowd and Religions. Its everywhere including any position or label you take yourself as, Agnostics and Atheists included!

In all the major Philosophies and esoteric inner cores of most religions is talk of reality being bare naked and without labels. And to experience the Absolute Truth of this naked reality of all things requires, in a sense, to be able to see without the mind and its labels.

For example in Buddhism this is called the 10,000 things, or distractions as well as brainwashing mind control of the world and everything in it, which takes away from the Pure non-conceptual nakedness of all of reality.

SO there it is in a nutshell. Instead of just picking apart certain aspects of the world and labeling just them as brainwashing mind control...... let's not forget that everything is brainwashing and mind control that forces the use of the dual mind into conceptualizing labels superimposed over Life which is comletey bare and is nowhere near what anyone thinks about it.

good thought. imagine sitting in forest without any input but the forest.

Originally posted by icepack
good thought. imagine sitting in forest without any input but the forest.

But that'd just be more "Go Green" brainwashing. Ever hear of "whispering" pines? What do you think they're whispering...?

reply to post by Ex_CT2

ok, then there would be only this water-tank left, where you float with no sound or light.

You are basically saying that we have a brain and that we can't do anything without it. Yes, you are right. But while we can't know the reality of things without the interpretations of our brain - our brain that is basically a machine that translates reality - we can try to use better interpretations, better models, better representations of the reality.

What we have to seek as a species is to use representations that are as close as possible to the reality, models that will allow us to "think real". in order to allow our actions to be based on real things that are really happening, instead of basing our actions on invented or fantasized fiction. This is how we have achieved efficiency in hard science, because we use models that are as close as possible to the reality of things, this is why we can launch a robot on planet Mars and stuff like that. There is no place for randomness or fantasized numbers.

In other spheres of human activities, we don't use hard science and mathematics. I think of economics, politics, personal relations, religion.. We have to find a way to adapt the scientific method to our everyday way of thinking.
Like in hard science, if we don't know something, we have to label it as "unknown until further informations", instead of putting a random number that we feel comfortable with.

Being as close as possible to the reality of things would allow us to be efficient in a number of non hard-science sector of human activities. Why do all enterprises that involves economics, politics, etc, always fail? Because they are based on ideologies, not on what the reality is. Why do we build physical structures that stand for thousand of years? Because they are based on reality, not on ideologies. They are based on hard-science which is the best tool we have invented to represent reality.

reply to post by dominicus


Sure, but the difference IMO is that there is intent in some cases. It's a mission of one person to change another than is seen as troubling. "Share your beliefs but pushing them is taking it too far." sort of thing. Pushing things onto people is very bothersome and a tactic used often to gain control. Marketers use it to urge people to buy their products. It works very well, and it's a problem for us and a fine tool for domination for them. A part of the person becomes 'owned' by the marketer because that part is controlled. They don't control your exact behavior, but in an indirect sense they do because they control your desires. They "whisper into your mind" to make their intended desires yours...

Here we go again. Be careful. The last thread on brainwashing is still in time out.

On topic:

True. Everything is brainwashing to a degree, but there's a vast difference between being able to logically prove why you believe what you believe as "truth", and saying "I believe this because it's what I'm suppose to believe", because ( i n s e r t d e i t y h e r e ) says so", when in fact they have no proof that said deity said any such thing, and they condemn anyone who uses this tidbit of logic against their "beliefs." Imagine the kind of psychological conditioning that must occur for one to abandon logic completely.

For something to be true brainwashing, forcible pressure to get someone to believe something they may not normally agree with is required. Things like pain, threats of death and/or torment, are generally good motivators.
Torture, hell, condemnation, and social ousting are also versions of these pressure tactics.

reply to post by gosseyn

But while we can't know the reality of things without the interpretations of our brain -

According to who? The Majority? ....there is a minority that says there is such a state of being able to experience reality as it really is without the interpretations of Brain. Albeit this is a small minority and they label such an ability as enlightenment ...but still at the end it s all part of relative mind stuff. Plus the Majority isn't always right about things.

models that will allow us to "think real". in order to allow our actions to be based on real things that are really happening, instead of basing our actions on invented or fantasized fiction.

But these models are again conceptualizations that eventually become agreed upon but a few then then majority....in a sense becoming archetypes of sorts. I think we can all agree that the representations of things are not the same as the actual thing.

There is no place for randomness or fantasized numbers.

But even those exist too. Science has random number generators. We can say that Nature acts in a random manner, perhaps within a certain set of rules or confines but still randomly unpredictable. We can also say that Infinite math or using infinity in math is itself a fantasized number or sum, that is used realistically in all sorts of sciences.

In other spheres of human activities, we don't use hard science and mathematics. I think of economics, politics, personal relations, religion.. We have to find a way to adapt the scientific method to our everyday way of thinking.

That wouldn't make sense. Science is its own branch and its own thing. Science is not psychology, nor is other branches of study. Not only that science has confines, limits of knowledge, is not Absolute, whereas we can say naked reality is Already Absolute.

Why do all enterprises that involves economics, politics, etc, always fail? Because they are based on ideologies, not on what the reality is.

Does not science involve bias and include in it the ideologies (and their resulting motivations) that the scientists themselves carry? I hear all the time certain folks not getting funding because of beliefs, or political reasons, or certain studies not being published because of certain reasons, etc. It seems Science itself is corrupted by the problems that ideologies bring with them in all other aspects of life.

Why do we build physical structures that stand for thousand of years? Because they are based on reality, not on ideologies. They are based on hard-science which is the best tool we have invented to represent reality.

It might be the best tool we have today, but that can all change. Just like a thousand years ago we didn't have today's version of science and the amount of knowledge we have. Others would argue that saying science is the best tool we have is a relative and moot point.

I would also say that structures standing for thousands of years mean nothing to me in the face of all there is and the Grand scheme of things. You give the buildings weight, whereas I could care less. Who is right? Its all relative based programming.

But while we can't know the reality of things without the interpretations of our brain -

--
According to who? The Majority? ....there is a minority that says there is such a state of being able to experience reality as it really is without the interpretations of Brain. Albeit this is a small minority and they label such an ability as enlightenment ...but still at the end it s all part of relative mind stuff. Plus the Majority isn't always right about things.

They pretend they can experiment the reality without interpretation, but they still use their brain, they still use their senses, hear sound, use their eyes and other senses, consciously or not. Interpretation by the brain doesn't mean verbal interpretation only, but also means non-verbal interpretation, automatic functions in the brain, subconscious mechanisms. The brain is a machine that translates reality, and it translates only a small part of what is actually happening around you at every moment. We are very limited in what we can experiment of the reality. For example, the sound you hear is not sound per se until it reaches you ears and your brain, before that it's only a wave of some frequency, and the same can be said about light before it reaches your eyes and your brain. Ask yourself : what sound would do a tree that is falling where there is no ears and brain to hear it falling?

models that will allow us to "think real". in order to allow our actions to be based on real things that are really happening, instead of basing our actions on invented or fantasized fiction.

---
But these models are again conceptualizations that eventually become agreed upon but a few then then majority....in a sense becoming archetypes of sorts. I think we can all agree that the representations of things are not the same as the actual thing.

Yes, that's what i said in my first sentence, everything is interpretation by the brain. I said i agree with you on this. My point is that there are different levels of interpretations, from close to reality to far from it.

There is no place for randomness or fantasized numbers.

---
But even those exist too. Science has random number generators. We can say that Nature acts in a random manner, perhaps within a certain set of rules or confines but still randomly unpredictable. We can also say that Infinite math or using infinity in math is itself a fantasized number or sum, that is used realistically in all sorts of sciences.

They exists but they are used for a specific purpose. If i want to calculate a distance and how much gas i will need, i am not gonna use random numbers. It's the same for infinity, it's used for a specific purpose.
And there is a cause for every effect, it's just that we are not biologically and/or technologically equipped to see and understand these causes.

In other spheres of human activities, we don't use hard science and mathematics. I think of economics, politics, personal relations, religion.. We have to find a way to adapt the scientific method to our everyday way of thinking.

---
That wouldn't make sense. Science is its own branch and its own thing. Science is not psychology, nor is other branches of study. Not only that science has confines, limits of knowledge, is not Absolute, whereas we can say naked reality is Already Absolute.

I said that we have to find a way to adapt the scientific method to our everyday way of thinking, not apply it as it is. We have to use a way of thinking which would brings us closer to the reality of things. Something like that has been created and is called "general semantics".

Why do all enterprises that involves economics, politics, etc, always fail? Because they are based on ideologies, not on what the reality is.

--
Does not science involve bias and include in it the ideologies (and their resulting motivations) that the scientists themselves carry? I hear all the time certain folks not getting funding because of beliefs, or political reasons, or certain studies not being published because of certain reasons, etc. It seems Science itself is corrupted by the problems that ideologies bring with them in all other aspects of life.

Yes, but i am not talking about men of science, but about science, the scientific method itself. It's a method which has proved again and again to be efficient, it is proven everyday. It is the best method we have ever created to be as close as possible to "what-is-really-happening"


see next post>>

Why do we build physical structures that stand for thousand of years? Because they are based on reality, not on ideologies. They are based on hard-science which is the best tool we have invented to represent reality.

-------
It might be the best tool we have today, but that can all change. Just like a thousand years ago we didn't have today's version of science and the amount of knowledge we have. Others would argue that saying science is the best tool we have is a relative and moot point.

I would also say that structures standing for thousands of years mean nothing to me in the face of all there is and the Grand scheme of things. You give the buildings weight, whereas I could care less. Who is right? Its all relative based programming.

Tools have changed but the method itself is still the same. It's about observations, experimentations, measurements, testing etc..

I don't care either about thousands of years structures concerning the topic we discuss, it was just an example to show you that things that have been built using the scientific method are efficient. I could give you a thousand more examples.

I urgently recommend reading about general semantics.

in context this is slightly true, however i wouldn't say completely brainwashing, if you think about it,the world is filled with little subliminal messages which fill our heads with ideas and thoughts, however all the other things our heads have in it i.e memories still remain therefore not completely brainwashing us

reply to post by Hessiana

in context this is slightly true, however i wouldn't say completely brainwashing, if you think about it,the world is filled with little subliminal messages which fill our heads with ideas and thoughts, however all the other things our heads have in it i.e memories still remain therefore not completely brainwashing us

What do I care for memories if they are not reality? What was real to me was the instant and the moment to moment creation of memories. WHen I was there at the time and directly experiencing it. Memories are imagination trying to recreate what once happened and become blurry with time and aren't even real.

Even with the scientific method ....as applied to reality in the context of Gosseyn's posts ...so what!!!! So we know its all atoms and possibly even smaller and smaller and smaller. Still I don't see atoms and to me everything science tells me is still conceptualized by the mind and imagined as representations of the truth (which is not itself the whole Direct true).

Plus lets look around the world, still bombs, guns, death, starvation, still all the BS of the world and NOTHING is solved or bettered around the world, so I say cool.... your scientific method may some kind of magnifying glass but it means nothing to me in the long run and solves nothing in our world except add a little bit more book knowledge to the already millions of volumes.

It does not solve the philosophical questions of who are we, why, when, for what... etc. All it is doing is fragmenting the whole by giving us these educated explanations of tiny bits of the whole. So what!!!

I can say it was much more intriguing, and free, and open ...this thing we call reality and the world, when I was a kid before all of the knowledge and labels. Everything was pure and unadulterated and then came the books, school, knowledge, etc...... Did knowing these things better me or solve my deepest questions? Of course not because just when I think I understand how everything works and I got it all, Life or Reality drops a curve ball or some unseen life changing occurrence happens that surely cannot be pure randomness.

I dont buy the scientific method for the whole of it. It may be the right tool to explore pieces, but the whole of it is still much more mysterious than what science says it is, and is nowhere near solving all the broken BS that we witness within reality

reply to post by dominicus


From reading the 1st bit i can tell a lot about you, SO you dont like memories, are you happy? Because if the thing we call reality is not real then what is?
THE scientific method is one way forward, usuing the scientific method we are able to find ways too stop and help the worlds stuff that you say cool too. Too answer the philosophical questions we must explore deeper and use our minds not complain about how daily life is brainwashing us.

Please remember that sometimes someway you have too accept things and move on, But with that in mind you must never give up

as for the little bits of whole, would you rather not find it all? As a commercial slogan goes, Every little helps. If we get them all then we can see the bigger picture as there is no know way of finding out the whole otherwise.

May i also mention that everything is implanted if you like, into our brains from the moment we were born, We learn all the time not get brainwashed, if we were all brainwashed all the time then theoretically we would all be dead because we would simply forget how to breathe.

reply to post by Hessiana

From reading the 1st bit i can tell a lot about you, SO you dont like memories, are you happy?

More content than happy ...more so just observing, or perhaps sitting in Neutral. If your happy then eventually something happens to take that away, since it has a beginning and end. I would rather just be Beyond it all, perhaps Zen like is the best answer. But I can say since 5 years old have had this over-bearing feeling of this world and reality not being right ...as if some sort of illusion or dream like bull crap that needs to end and everyone is brainwashed, except for when we are freshly born and the worlds BS hasn't been projected into us yet..... that childlike state is more truthful than what we now think we know.

Because if the thing we call reality is not real then what is?

I don't know what is ...still working on that, but I know what we are all agreeing to here, the limits of the mind, of the body, death, disease, starvation, the atrocities we see, the relative state of opinions, etc its all not right, not truth in a sense and this shouldn't be this way.

THE scientific method is one way forward, usuing the scientific method we are able to find ways too stop and help the worlds stuff that you say cool too

We can also use this method to make atomic bombs to drop n people, or to figure out how to make bird flu more contageous, or find more quicker easier ways to make mass killing weapons for the industrial complex which is finding a large portion of the scientific community with trillions of black book dollars. There we go again, science polluted by ideology!

Too answer the philosophical questions we must explore deeper and use our minds not complain about how daily life is brainwashing us.

Im not going to stop complaining and resort to accepting this reality like everyone else does. I've met others that feel in their guts that this isn't how its supposed to be and that reality is polluted and a result of programming and brainwashing of some sort. I agree explore but explore using a limitd mind? We can only go so far conceptually.

as for the little bits of whole, would you rather not find it all? As a commercial slogan goes, Every little helps. If we get them all then we can see the bigger picture as there is no know way of finding out the whole otherwise.

It doesnt matter even if we knew 99% of whats going..... because what is going is way too much and too big and too real for a puny little conceptual mind to fathom it all. Just reading books on quarks or black holes already puts the mind in a state where these things are so grand in stature that the mind can't even wrap around it... if that makes sense.

We learn all the time not get brainwashed, if we were all brainwashed all the time then theoretically we would all be dead because we would simply forget how to breathe.

Breathing is automatic and does not require the use of thought to function. Jut like blood flow is automatic. I still believe we are all of us brainwashed including me. It is the curse of the dual mind. We need t to function and understand, yet it is limited and puny compared to the Vastness of the Universe that the mind exists in and can't even comprehend. I believe our minds are this way because of the brainwashing we are surrounded with since birth.

reply to post by dominicus


Dominicus I am really enjoying your thoughts because i agree totally, humans are brainwashed. Brainwashed is the wrong word though isn't it, brain implanted is more correct, it's like a chip was planted at birth that can be downloaded with programmes. What we require is a full brainwash to remove the programming, to remove the conditioning. This of course is impossible. So the only option we have is to see the programming and see the conditioning, to be aware of it. Be aware that there is a bug in the system. Before you were 'self' conscious you were consciousness, the 'self' is the imposter that can be controlled.

The ghost in the machine. 'The machine', the system, the chip that was implanted after birth is what most people are, no more than a machine that has buttons on (the me sense). 'The ghost', well that's the spirit that sees all this going on (absolute I). The ghost, the holy ghost, is the seer and knower and is always present but can not be seen or known, because it percieves it can not be percieved. That is the true reality, it is what you essentially are. It is that one pure essence that is appearing as everything.

The human machine is used for gain in this world. It is programmed with the word, every word is a type of programme, many words make ideas and ideas are used to control, they are fed into the human machine and most humans have no idea that they are no more than machines. Batteries to power the system. Born into a prison that you can not see, taste or touch.
The only way to break free is to see the bars. The bars are identification, words, labels, ideas and beliefs because they build the prison of fear and isolation.

Identification is the first chip, the root chip but it has to planted with a word, that word is your given name. Your real name is I only, the one and only. Your strawman (the extra you, is given a name), this one is bought and sold, probabaly the mark of the beast. Then on the name you were given (a label), all other labels are attached, the mind is born and a whole imaginary world is created. The (insert your name) show is born. In this show we are told about being good or else God will punish you when you die and then the machine will do what it is expected to do, because the machine is fueled by fear.

The real you is not a machine, it can be aware of the machine.
Awareness is what you are really. Absolute I.
If the machine is noisey just listen. Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching is what you are. The noise is not you. Any 'thing' that can be percieved you are not, you are what can not be percieved.

Namaste.

Just be aware of the system and how it is operating, recognize that it is there, nothing else has to be done. Observe the machine because when you are observing it you are not the machine. You have stepped out of the matrix.

I believe it's impossible to realize 'the truth' if the truth is an all encompassing explanation, description or model simply because of the phenomena of death. If there is something beyond then it should be in this model otherwise it is not complete. If there is something beyond and/or reincarnation exists and if technology to identify 'souls' would exist then this would change the entire model.

Problem is, we might never prove life beyond death, we might never be certain about it (or at least for several centuries if technology to prove it might be invented someday) so to put this into an all encompassing model would always have room for some fantasizing.

Or it could be left out, but in that case if there is something beyond death the entire model would be false by assuming there isn't anything.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Hessiana

 

From reading the 1st bit i can tell a lot about you, SO you dont like memories, are you happy?

More content than happy ...more so just observing, or perhaps sitting in Neutral. If your happy then eventually something happens to take that away, since it has a beginning and end. I would rather just be Beyond it all, perhaps Zen like is the best answer.

Bit offtopic perhaps or pointing out the obvious but that is life, if a happy thing ends, you're supposed to create a new one, for all of eternity. That is when you are beyond it all, instead of being sad something good ended and wallowing in it while a new good thing should be created, just move on. Nothing takes it away, it just ends because that was how it was created, what has a beginning has an end as well. Just responding because I studied buddhism as well and believed being in neutral was the way to go.

A couple thoughts pop up...

When you label me...you negate me!

Also, be in this world, not of it!