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Can Inmates Who Are Raped in Prison Sue the Government?

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posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:34 PM
reply to post by jeichelberg

Most of the prisons are huge complexes and you really think with all the technology and what not violence in prisons could end with stroke of a wand? I really want to believe what you are saying, but even with the technology prisoners are going to find ways to inflict harm upon each other, and distribute contraband. The only thing that would end violence among inmates is to lock them up in solitary and then escort them individually to wherever they have to go and to deliver their meals to their cells personally.

This approach is a slippery slope and could be considered by some as cruel and unusual punishment and a violation of the eighth amendment, because not all inmates are murderers or violent offenders. I am aware it is done on a case by case basis, but across the board for everyone could be controversial. If solitary is the end all be all for prison violence, there would be a need for more staff and cells being built along with more tax dollars. We are talking about thousands upon thousands of inmates. No disrespect my friend, but I think you are looking for the pie in the sky? Prison is a harsh place, and I agree people don't care about what goes on in prisons until they have the unfortunate event of ending up there. That is why I said, "Out of sight out of mind." Thanks for the reply!

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:45 PM
reply to post by Jakes51

I appreciate your response...and yes, it can be said I have a "pie in the sky," approach...but, after nearly thirty years of "inside experience," in institutions, the fact remains we do not do enough with technology...Yes, I realize they are a violent place...Yes, I realize the contraband and prohibited property remains an issue...and, yes I do advocate single room housing...

But the issue becomes HOW the facility is laid out and constructed and what types of programs are in place...

Again, I have nearly thirty years of experience at this, at all levels, from correctional officer to high level management...The solutions I propose are not being utilized...not because of cost, but because people do not care to eliminate the problem...

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:48 PM
America's Prison System was created to make something.

Wouldn't it be more humane to put someone in 1 cell and keep them there until it is time to release them?

Yes....but America's prison system was created to make something.

People who will band together for survival and do what it takes to do so. Comradery....tight lips...planning....plotting...tactics for projecting force....weapons manufacture....smuggling...methods of Generating Revenue......

America's Prison System was created to make something.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 01:52 PM
reply to post by mobiusmale

Once your behind bars you lose almost every right.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:00 PM
reply to post by Pervius

The prison system was created to remove law breakers from law abiding, it was created to make people who obey the law SAFE from those who break the law...that is why it was created...

Now, what has it transformed into? A place where private corporations, like GEO Group, Aramark, and Corizon, can PROFIT from state and federal governments by providing the LEAST amount of services possible to the offender populations...

In addition, look at my past comments concerning who we house in prisons...right now, it is drug offenders and the mentally ill...

Most of this population is one in the same...
edit on 12/23/2011 by jeichelberg because: misspelling

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:11 PM
reply to post by jeichelberg

Wow! I had no idea you were in the corrections profession. Therefore, with all the experience you have mentioned you would probably know better than most. Penologists have kicked around many of the ideas you have as well. I suppose as is the case with human nature nothing can be done to perfection.

Therefore, any idea to make the experience for both the inmate and prison employee a little more pleasant is a good idea. However, we have to look at these ideas realistically as well, and it appears you see things the same way. Perhaps, the states and federal government can water down the legal system to a certain degree and remove some of the unnecessary laws that would put a person in position to join the ever-growing inmate population? What those laws are and which ones should go is a debate all in itself. Thanks again for the poignant replies!

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Pervius
America's Prison System was created to make something.

Wouldn't it be more humane to put someone in 1 cell and keep them there until it is time to release them?


You must of never been locked up, some of these guys are doing 20 years, with out social interaction people go crazy.
In Marion Federal Prison, they have been lock down for over 20 years they are making Monsters.

One thing is fact, is in Prison if someone wants you to be their bitch, you wil be or be dead one of the 2.

In Raiford Prison back in I think the 70s, this one balck dude must of weight about 400 pounds and he didn't really look fat, now not to mention his buds. He said if he want you or any of his buds, that was it.Think about it's not a gay thing, if your doing life and a sweet young boy comes in, what the hell you think is going to happen.

Really though it's not much different than our Military officers in Afganistan with those Ballie Boys and performing sex on them, there's some real sickos out there.

Prison now is just an indusry, with Cheney and Haliburton making money off these injustices, they want to keep them in prison not for justice but for money. Do the math build the prison get paid for keeping them, build mmore prisons.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 02:18 PM
reply to post by Jakes51

Thanks again...

We do need to seriously look at the laws concerning drugs...this so-called "war," has done nothing but cause our state governments to go broke...Prohibition DOES NOT only serves to keep the pockets of corrupt politicians and top-level gangsters lined with the meantime, people who have mental illness and chemical imbalances (i.e., PHYSICAL AND MENTAL problems) are SELF-MEDICATING and in turn, getting thrown into the hoosegow with dangerous people (i.e., street soldiers).

If we woke up and stopped this senseless war, then real crime would reduce...

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 03:49 PM

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Originally posted by F4guy
reply to post by mobiusmale

To succinctly answer your question, the answer is yes. A more insightful question would be, "Can an inmate win, or is he likely to win, such a suit. Except for a few limited situations, there is no pre-filing screening process for lawsuits. Anyone can grab a pen and a piece of paper and write down anything, take it to a courthouse, pay the filing fee, and voila, somebody is sued. Then the "screening begins, usually as a result of a Rule 12 motion to dismiss for one of a number of reasons, or of a Rule 56 Motion for Summary Judgment.
One large impediment to the success of such a suit would be the defense of sovereign immunity, although a case would have a better chance of evading that defense if framed as a "1983" action for a deprivation of rights under color of state law, or, if it's a federal prison, a "Bivens" action. Incidentally, one study showed that a rape by prison staff occured three times more often than a rape by a fellow inmate.

I would like to thank you for your answer...first as to the fact that an inmate has the right to sue.

But, could you possibly enlighten us a little more as to what a "1983" action is...or a "Bivens" action?

A 1983 action is a lawsuit filed under Title 42 of the United States Code, Section 1983. It has to do with a deprivation of civil rights under "color of state law." Think Joe Arpaio. A Bivens case is the Federal equivalent and is named for a case where a guy named Bivens sued a bunch of federal agents for violating his civil rights. Think your local slope-headed, slack-jawed, mouth-breathing, crotch-grabbing TSA goon.
And you're welcome.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 03:53 PM

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by muzzleflash

I would say that if the govt caused or knowingly allowed it to happen, yes, it would be a violation of the constitution. As others have said, it would be difficult to prove.

The Government cannot/will not be held accountable for a rape after sending someone to prison anymore than they will/would be held accountable for the death of a US soldier they sent to war (even if he was drafted).

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Yes it is a direct violation of the Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

VIII Amendment Wiki - Must Read!!

The Constitution does not apply to You/Me and certainly not prisoners.

"But indeed, no person has a right to complain, by suit in Court, on the ground of a breech of the Constitution. The Constitution, it is true, is a compact (contract), but he is not a party to it. The States are a party to it..." (emphasis added). [Padelford, Fay & Co. vs. The Mayor and Alderman of the City of Savannah, 14 Ga. 438 (1854)]

"The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government, and not for the government of the individual States. Each State established a constitution for itself, and in that constitution provided such limitations and restrictions on the powers of its particular government as its judgment dictated. The people of the United States framed such a government for the United States as they supposed best adapted to their situation and best calculated to promote their interests.The powers they conferred on this government were to be exercised by itself, and the limitations on power, if expressed in general terms, are naturally and necessarily applicable to the government created by the instrument. They are limitations of power granted in the instrument itself, not of distinct governments framed by different persons and for different purposes." [Barron v. Mayor & City Council of Baltimore. 32 U.S. 243]

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:25 PM
reply to post by googolplex

There is a warden in Cali who is getting a lot of attention because he totally changed the way things were done. he saw most inmates coming back and wanted to reduce that.
He did away with isolation all together, feeling it only made inmates worse. What he did was a lot of therapy, a lot of life coaching, and a large focus on skill building.

After putting in these numbers, the inmate return rate dropped like a rock.

Jeirl is right, the Regean act of dismissing the mental illness instittuions was an outright social abomination.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:36 PM
reply to post by KaiserSoze

You mean if drug offenses were lowered to misdemeanor charges? Makes sense to me.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:41 PM
reply to post by mobiusmale

Prisoners who commit fraud, robbery or any other crime should be treated with dignity in a prison? How dignified was it for the victim?

Don't do the crime and you won't find yourself in prison!

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 05:14 PM
reply to post by Malcher

This is a different argument. If the state puts you into a situation where you are raped or sexually assaulted, they are, to an extent, responsible. If I were to throw you into a cage with a hungry lion, for example, you'd hold me accountable for putting you in harms way. This is entirely different than if you were frolicking about a prairie and a random lion came and ate you.

As for whether you could sue them, I have no idea. Rationally they can't do much about rape in prisons, partially because it often goes unreported (out of fear of victim's own safety), and because there is no real way to stop it aside from castration or isolation of the perpetrators. Both of which are absurd because forced castration is immoral, inhumane, and wouldn't stand in today's political climate, and because our prisons are overpopulated; we have no place to send the rapists.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 05:17 PM
Lets bloody hope not and if i had my way,they would recieve far worse then rape.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 05:19 PM
reply to post by bluemirage5

This is actually not true. I know people who haven't committed crimes but have been sent to prison because of various reasons. In one example a gang committed armed robbery and forced an outsider to take the blame for it by threatening to kill his family, he's doing 15 years. In another my friend was accused of rape and was kept in jail for 7 months before being given a hearing, in which they dismissed the rape charges because they didn't actually have any evidence to convict him aside from a "he-said, she-said" argument. They decided, however, to keep him in jail for a few more months because apparently getting accused of committing a crime is considered a violation of probation.

The justice system is so broken and unjust I can't even joke about it.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 06:48 PM
reply to post by mobiusmale


You asked "Is it a lack of supervision? Is it staff shortages? Is it a lack of monitoring of high risk areas or activities? Is it apathy? Is it (the premise of widespread rape) untrue? Something else? "

Maybe just the fact that a lot of people in prison are bad people, who like to exert their perceived authority over, and hurt, other people? I find it dismaying, but hardly surprising. Is it really a problem with the system, or just a brutal result of the forced cohabitation of many unsavoury characters? What level of supervision would we need to provide to ensure that people who are known for not following the rules have no choice but to follow the rules?

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 07:33 PM
I would say no.
If inmates could sue the state for the crimes committed against them then free men and women could do the same to the state if the same happened.
Bottom line, crime is gonna happen.
The trick is, do not put your self into a position where you are gonna be surrounded by criminals.
Kind of makes you wonder why some of these "hardened criminals" talk of how they are not afraid but hopeful of prison time.

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 07:56 PM

Originally posted by 8om8er
Simply food for thought........can an ordinary citizen on the street sue their local or state government if they are raped?

I see exactly what you are saying, but with prisons being full of prisoners I guess reliable witnesses would be few and far between, making such litigation difficult.

Um... prisoners are under direct care and supervision for their safety.. in a way that civilians are not... and quite frankly the way most prison guards treat prison rape allows way too many people to slip through the cracks.. and people are forced into sexual slavery. If they speak out they end up dead or severely beaten.

We should have cameras on every part of the prison 24/7
edit on 12/23/2011 by Drezden because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 08:13 PM
I served 7 years and never once did I get raped, or even see or yet alone hear of anyone being raped where I was.
In fact, aside from the 2 isolated # talkers, I served my time in solitary and had no issues.
Well...other than the food.

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