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Global Meltdown imminent: constructive solutions invited

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posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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The general consensus is that governments and banks around the globe are broke. (If you doubt it you haven't been here long.) Most non-partisan contributors think the current approach of throwing ever-larger wads of borrowed cash at the black holes in government current accounts and bank liquidity achieve nothing but kick the problems into touch — and thereby multiply financial Armageddon.

So we can either continue screaming at our screens or think about what the alternatives might be. Here is how I see the alternatives to endless bailouts on the back of borrowed money:

Austerity: too late / too unpopular

War: (It worked for Hitler.
)

Universal impoverishment: too unpopular

Massive increases in productivity (-i.e. long hours / hard work): too unpopular

Replace the fossil fuel economy with something cheaper / more environmentally-friendly: too popular

The borrowing cannot go on ad infinitum. Collapse does seem utterly inevitable. But what lies beyond? I suggest it has to be one of the above. (You could make a case for the return of barter, but it's only ever going to be a short-term solution.)

I know it's easier just to turn off & say "It makes my head hurt". But there are plenty of folks around here who have a good enough grasp of economics / finance / history to come up with some insightful suggestions as to what approaches would be better than more of the same.

(And for those who have no idea I leave you with but one suggestion: try this)




posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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Good one, yeah I think that last link is the best part of your post


I don't know any constructive solutions. Personally, I think that when TSHTF that we need to just band together and help each other out. It will work out for the better.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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Sorry, it's catching.....

Oh and



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 06:33 PM
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Collapse of the World’s Economic System is inevitable, this is just how the Central Banking System is designed to operate.

It can’t operate any other way, collapse is a Mathematical certainty.

The only open question is, can the Collapse be triggered and controlled by the Central Bankers, or does the collapse happen outside of their control.

The solution to economic upheaval is fairly simple.

First: Fiat money must be removed from the economic system, and we must return to using real gold, silver, and copper as money. No Paper what so ever, paper money has no value, never has, never will.
What an once of gold, or silver, or even copper could purchase 100 years ago, it still can.

Second: Remove Fractional Banking from the system. If some bank is going to loan money they should have that money to loan. This is how you and I do it, if it is good enough for us, it is good enough for them.

Just these two steps will cure the economic condition the World is now facing and it is a cure, we will never again experience Economic calamity again; ever.

Some will say that these two moves will make the system crash tomorrow, that is true, but the system is going to crash, that is a mathematical certainty.

So why not come through the crash never to experience it again as the result instead of continuing the Central Bank model which will result in another crash in the future.

Some say that there is not enough gold and silver on the planet to cover the paper wealth on the books, this is true as well.

But, Paper wealth is not wealth at all, it is only the illusion of wealth.

This drives to the core of the Central Banking Ponzie scheme. The Central Bank is set up for this very purpose. The Central Bankers remove the wealth of a Nation and give in exchange some printed colorful paper, the Central Bankers then use that wealth to acquire real assets as gold, silver, real estate, timber, farm land, controlling interest in business, etc.

Close the Central Banks and Nationalize their assets.

Coinage real money, i.e. gold, silver, and copper.

Force Banks to become honest through legislation.

This is a start.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by calnorak & surrealist
 


I was expecting 'End the Fed' / 'No more fiat currency'. All I get is bodies squirming all over the floor, with you too cackling & rolling back and forth, helpless.



Yesterday I saw a video in a thread where the interviewee gave a strong critique of Ron Paul's gold-backed currency policy. It was the first time I've seen a well-reasoned case against one of his policies, so I'm trying to find the vid. I think it was a Kaiser report. It gave a lot of food for thought, so I'll definitely post it in here if I manage to dig it up.

Does anyone want to make a case for any of the options outlined in the OP (-as being preferable to endlessly increasing debt)?


reply to post by brokedown
 


You replied before I finished writing the above. An excellent response — and surely preferable to the current madness!



edit on 21/12/11 by pause4thought because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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if you backed the fiat currancy now with gold, an ounce of gold would be $100,000!


The only awnser i have comes from south park

"space cash"



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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I'd like to see a Star Trekien style of government, or at least the part where they did away with the monetary system completely.

Money IS the root of all evil after all!..


Maybe we could replace it with "Karma credits"? as a means of motivation (like money)...

The more good you produce, the more Karma credits you get (no matter what you do, be it a job or whatever)

That would go a long way to defeat corruption because there is only one way to EARN these credits, by doing good!

Fantasy, I know.....



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Unfortunately I can't find the video I mentioned (-someone else must have seen it in a thread over the past couple of days). If I remember correctly the interviewee was arguing that issuing a gold-backed currency achieves little unless you get rid of fractional reserve banking (-which brokedown has already referred to). How on earth you get the banks to agree to that is the big question.

I suppose you'd need politicians in power who'd be prepared to stand up to the elite of the banking world...



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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I say let the whole system melt. And I say we should all do are part in speeding up the process. You can't build a good house on a crappy foundation now can you. Get rid of the old first then plan for the future. It would no doubt be a bloody mess but the Earth needs a good enema. Hopefully something better could be realized. I like the other posters idea of a Star Trek style society, no robots though.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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I think we will see all of them implemented either one at a time in desperate acts to save the status quo or where there is just no other options. I think that a combination of all of them is where we will find the balance with the exception of war. The traditional thought is that WWII brought us out of the depression. One could argue that but it is traditional thought, so why wouldn't one of DC's finest think to replicate that in the middle east.
But I think we need to have sound money atleast partially backed by something other than faith and I think that everyone will have to live a life more like our grandparents, a more simple life without all the gadgets and without all the toys, where family filled the voids that toys fill right now. When man discovered how useful oil was our population skyrocketed. Our population chart looks like that of rodents and usually dissease solves rodent overpopulation, I will be curious if the same doesn't happen with humans.
The problem is that all these require fundamental changes within everyone's life. I am a rancher, I find it is more convenient for me to check cattle in my pickup rather than on my horse. That is why I think we will see a collapse before we see the changes. It is easy to bark changes when it only involves others, it gets extremely difficult when it is something that is personal.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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Hmmm. Let's see we can collapse the economies of the world and create debt reduction on a vast scale resulting in restructuring of the world;s fiat currency system into a new global, digital one nominally backed by a basket of gold, silver and crude oil (much like current banking reserve requirements). Given that it is digital (no counterfeiting) we can require all to take a digital chip so that there can be no counterfeiting of cards and we can control the population so that any future insurrections can be nipped in the bud by canceling the ability to buy, sell or travel for those deemed involved (directly, indirectly or suspected of either). Wait! WTF!!! Isnt that already being set up!!!



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by CosmicCitizen
 


I agree with you that a world wide currency is coming, but how does one have a chip that is accessible to so many but make it hack proof? We cannot build a multi million dollar drone that cannot be hacked while flying and landed safely in an opposing country. I think if or when people are chipped, personal information will be more widely available to "counterfeiters" than it is right now. That will just bring a whole new era of identity theft.
I always thought they would start by chipping soldiers. They could sell it by telling people that they can track their family members if ever captured or recover bodies of the fallen.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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Dear OP,

Do you truly seek for constructive solutions? In the famous words of Jack Nic - Can you handle the truth? Or can the elites handle the truth?

Truth is, despite the worries and fears of global meltdown and the mind games played by the elites/casino stock exchange operators, money - the grease that oils the world - DIDNT DISSAPEAR FROM THIN AIR!

It only went hoarded up - in safe havens or under bedsheets.

Despite the reports of trillions needed to balance accounts and pay off debts by govs and banks, the money in reality is in the hands of the PEOPLE.

When you borrow money, where does the money goes? It goes into paying off your assets, into the hands of your contractors/clients and debtors and then to the banks and gov as taxes. In the case of tax evaders and corrupted leaders, the money just ends up in their banks or homes. Usually such corrupters have far more money than they can ever spend in one lifetime, more so in 1st world nations, let alone 3rd world.

When uncertainty arises in the economy, everyone keeps/hoards money, resulting in an death loop with the lack of money circulation, as is happening now.

Therefore, in truth, the crisis now can be resolved, as those monies are in the hands of the PEOPLE.

When it circulates, economies will see growth. Thing is, they need to be assured that they can see returns, even if it is only 1% annually, and not lost like the dubious Lehman and MF global scams where they lose even their capital.

It calls for better regulations and responsibilities by govs and corporations if those funds are to be released from hoarding., otherwise, leaders and elites will collapse soon over time. The elites' wealth, although substantial, can never compare to the 99%'s wealth if they hold just $100 EACH.

Who NOW calls the shots for better fiscal management and responsiblities?

YOU, along with your family, relatives and friends that makes up society, to share wealth fairly for all so that NONE gets left behind.


edit on 24-12-2011 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


An interesting new perspective.


One thing I don't follow, though, is how the money is supposed to be in the hands of 'the people' when so many are on low wages / out of work.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


The avg rate of unemployment is usually around 4% of population, which means 96% ARE employed, with wages, that are far more with the savings than a mere $100/mth.

Spain reported an unemployment rate of around 20%. BUT, that still means 80% ARE employed, with savings, hoarded or in banks.

We. The People, provide the labour, productivity, intelligence and taxes.

THus, WE, the PEOPLE, with only common aspirations in life no matter our differences, CALL THE SHOTS TODAY, no more the corrupted and inept gov leaders, bankcrupting corps and bankers whom used to!
edit on 24-12-2011 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


That may be true at this point in time, but historically we have had a higher savings rate, lower debt to income, even in times of heavy expansion. So while that might be true now, historically it doesn't make sense to me.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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** first some disclaimers **

Politically incorrect: CHECK
Learning from the bad guys: CHECK
dangerous idea to state out loud: CHECK

** ok, deep breath, here we go **





Hitler began a national credit program by devising a plan of public works that included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. All these were paid for with money that no longer came from the private international bankers.


The projected cost of these various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. To pay for this, the German government (not the international bankers) issued bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates. In this way the National Socialists put millions of people to work, and paid them with Treasury Certificates.


Under the National Socialists, Germany’s money wasn't backed by gold (which was owned by the international bankers). It was essentially a receipt for labor and materials delivered to the government. Hitler said, "For every mark issued, we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done, or goods produced." The government paid workers in Certificates. Workers spent those Certificates on other goods and services, thus creating more jobs for more people. In this way the German people climbed out of the crushing debt imposed on them by the international bankers.


Within [color=gold] two years, the unemployment problem had been solved, and Germany was back on its feet. It had a solid, stable currency, with no debt, and no inflation, at a time when millions of people in the United States and other Western countries (controlled by international bankers) were still out of work. Within five years, Germany went from the poorest nation in Europe to the richest.

How Hitler Defied the Bankers


Warning: before visiting the link above. The writter likes throwing around the word Jewish like an insult, and seems to be antisemitic. He does lay out an interesting case about the famous Weimar inflation though.


David Grouchy



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


I don't see how to get around a huge problem.

ALL THE GLOBAL ELITES IN POWER

WANT

A TOTAL MELT DOWN

AND

WWIII.

They've worked hard setting it up.

They are determined to see it through.

They are licking their chops over the bloodshed, anarchy, chaos, suffering.

They are evil to the core.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by davidgrouchy
 


I read that link, quite interesting. I agree about naked shorts and speculation. But if I understood correctly the inflationary pressures came from banks printing money freely and borrowing it out. What is the difference who does this gov't or banks. It is still creating something from nothing, without having it backed by something of value.
I would have to assume that the nazis would have had the same result over the course of mutiple decades with their certificates. We only have a short history of their experiment with certificates of labor.Having a currency benched to something is the only way I can think of that would control gov'ts from freely printing currency.
But I agree that a private bank has no business printing a national currency.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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I don't understand a single one of those concerns.

Here we have a proof-of-concept on how to pull an entire country
out of depression in two years flat.

Of course everything we've been told since then is designed
to make it questionable and cast doubt on it.


Canadian researcher Dr. Henry Makow (who is Jewish himself) says the main reason why the bankers arranged for a world war against Germany was that Hitler sidestepped the bankers by creating his own money, thereby freeing the German people. Worse, this freedom and prosperity threatened to spread to other nations. Hitler had to be stopped!



Same reason Kenedy may have been shot.


David Grouchy




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