Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Was there a Second Great Sphinx at Giza?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 04:04 PM
link   
I happened upon this information and to be quite frank, have had very little time to analyze it proper. In any case, it appears that a Archaeologist by the name of Michael Poe thinks/claims that indeed there was:


There is currently absolutely no archaeological evidence of Khephren 'repairing' the Sphinx. There are two ancient Egyptian references, both during the Middle Kingdom, at a considerably later time. One has it that Khephren found the Sphinx (which would support the Sphinx is older than Khepern), and that Khephern altered it's face. This same source (fragmentary papyrus) said that there was another Sphinx facing this one on the other side of the Nile, and both were built here to represent the dividing line between Northern and Southern Egypt. The other reference said that Khephren built the Sphinx.

Have you ever seen just one Sphinx in later Egypt that didn't have another? Not only did the ancient Egyptians mention a second Sphinx, but so did the Greeks, Romans, and Muslims. It was destroyed between 1000-1200 ad.

At the entrance to buildings and temples there are two Sphinxes, side by side, but on the avenue or approach to the temple they are facing each other. Sometimes they may have as much as 100 or so facing each other in the avenue. The Nile is Egypt's avenue between North and South. All of the writings about the two Sphinxes say that they were facing each other. The second one, by the way, was partly destroyed during a high Nile flood, and then completely destroyed by ensuing Moslems carting it off to rebuild their villages.

Was There a Second Great Sphinx at Giza?

Apparently, ancient past Arab writers or possible Arab historians have mentioned that there was:


Al-I'Drisi (AD 1099-1166) who wrote about it in Kitab al-Mamalik wa al-Mansalik (a large geographic encyclopedia) and Al-Kitab al-Jujari, a geographical encyclopedia on Asia and Africa. He describes a second sphinx across the Nile from the first in very bad state of repair, made of mud (bricks?) and faced with stone, most of the stone having been hauled away by local inhabitants and now the Nile "lapping at it's feet." He doesn't say if it was the same size, but since the Nile moved further east after AD 1166, then it would have been destroyed.

Ibn Battuta (AD 1307-1377) in his Travels in Asia and Africa doesn't mention it, either because it doesn't exist, or has already been destroyed by then (it was written around AD 1325-1354).

Musabbihi mentions a smaller Sphinx across the Nile from the large one "south of Cairo" in a "ruined state of brick and stone" in the Annals of Rabi II around AD 1024.

Nasir-i Khosrau visited Egypt between Aug 1047 and April 1048 and heard rumors of a second one but apparently never looked for it or saw it.



I find this to be very intriguing and wish I had a bit more time to 'dig' around some on this....
I certainly hope some will have some data/information of this. It would and will be certainly appreciated.
I also found this site with some more data/information:
The Second Sphinx Theory

Thoughts or comments?
Thank you.


seekerof

[edit on 8-9-2004 by Seekerof]




posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 04:16 PM
link   
Its an interesting theory. Having been to Egypt and seen Giza and Luxor etc. It makes sence that a second Sphinx would be facing the other. Kind of like a entry way for the Pharo to pass through. The Egyptians did seem to like symetry.



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 05:58 PM
link   
Thats true, FREDT.

It is wierd that something they obviously loved, that they only built one of them. Its drawn in alot of there culture, alot like obelisks.

AH HA, I FOUND IT.
It appears Las Vegas has stole it.




posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 02:55 AM
link   
In reading The Message of the Sphinx co-written by Hancock and Bauval, I believe that it was mentioned that there was a strong possibility that there were two Sphinxes (pluralized spelling?). I haven't read the book for a little bit and I forget exactly what was said and in what context, so if anyone else has information to share, please do.



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 05:56 PM
link   
this is a brilliant post, i have never heard this at all before.

but nothing will ever be done with the guy who is the, self-appointed, head of egyptology, who lets no one do anything there



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 06:01 PM
link   
His name is Dr. Zahi Hawass, and he seems to be the nemisis of all inquiring minds concerning further research and the Giza necropolis.

interesting note: I have read that Dr. Hawass was once part of an ARE project that drilled at the site of the sphinx



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 09:49 AM
link   
Interesting, I've not heard this before.

If there were two as a ceremonial passagewage they would have been in sight of each other I would assume, and so Nasir-i Khosrau would have seen it, unless it was destroyed some time before his visit?

Maybe they were further apart and symbolic in reference, or served an entirely different purpose? Will be interesting to see what else people can dig up on the subject ;-)



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 12:48 PM
link   
As you all know, the three main pyramids in the Giza necropolis are designed in such a way as to replicate the three stars of Orion's belt. They are proportionally set apart and lined up proportionally to the Nile as the stars in Orion's belt is to the Milky Way. Another theory is that the sphinx at Giza was/is paired with the constellation of Leo (during the age of Leo), where there is speculation of if this indicates when it was built. The age of Leo is mapped out (via the program Skyglobe 3.6 that uses precession to map out where the stars were, are, and will be at any given date) to be from circa 10,970 to 8810 BCE. Upon this past date, the sphinx is said to be aligned in such a way as to stare directly in the direction the sun would rise upon the the spring equinox (i.e. the constellation of Leo "housed the sun" during the spring equinox).




This means that the lion-bodied Sphinx, with its due-east orientation, would have gazed directly on that morning at the one constellation in the sky that might reasonably be regarded as its own celestial counterpart.


Click here to view the webpage from which this quote came.



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 01:31 PM
link   
I remember one book I read a part of and got bored of, The Sirian Connection was its name I think. It mentioned that the sphinx body is that of a dog, not a lion, because the Egyptians correctly show lions hind legs sticking up above the arch of the back and the sphinx's don't.

Just a random tidbit ;-)



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 07:56 PM
link   
Nairod - if you can find some quotes from that source I would be very interested in reading them. I haven't heard about this spin on the subject...very interesting.

One thing to consider is that the sphinx is in a laying position; it wouldn't seem plausible for its haunches to be sticking up above the arch of the back would it? I don't seem to think so, but the reasoning of the book you mentioned might change my mind.

If you could find that section and post some important quotes it would be an interesting, let alone unique post.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by Howard the Dolphin]



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 07:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by Howard the Dolphin
Nairod - if you can find some quotes from that source I would be very interested in reading them. I haven't heard about this spin on the subject...very interesting.

One thing to consider is that the sphinx is in a laying position; it wouldn't seem plausible for its haunches to be sticking up above the arch of the back would it? I don't seem to think so, but the reasoning of the book you mentioned might change my mind.

If you could find that section and post some important quotes it would be an interesting, let alone unique post.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by Howard the Dolphin]


I don't have time to go and get the book out of the library and directly quote parts of it to you, but I have found this site which summarises aspects of that book, including the doglike aspects of the sphinx.

www.geocities.com...


""It amazes me that so many People blindly accept one man's conclusion that the Sphinx may have originally had the body and head of a lion while their own eyes would surely tell them that it has no leonine characteristics at all! Even allowing for the 'refurbishments' carried out under the orders of Pharaoh Kafre in 2500 BC there is no trace at all of leonine features. There is no lion's tail with the tuft, no lion-like haunches or trace of where a mane might have been. Most significantly it has a perfectly straight back which is uncharacteristic of a lion, but is perfectly consistent with the body of a dog. It is my contention that the Sphinx was originally that of a crouching Anubis - the jackal-headed God of the Dead and the son of Osiris."

Hope that helps ;-)

The book is The Sirius Mystery, by Robert Temple



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 09:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Howard the Dolphin
As you all know, the three main pyramids in the Giza necropolis are designed in such a way as to replicate the three stars of Orion's belt. They are proportionally set apart and lined up proportionally to the Nile as the stars in Orion's belt is to the Milky Way.

Acutally, Howard, that's not true.

You have to monk with the alignment and FLIP the constellation of Orion for them to match. It's not a very close match.

And further, the constellation of Orion was actually part of two different constellations to the ancient Egyptians. They didn't see it as a single unit.


Another theory is that the sphinx at Giza was/is paired with the constellation of Leo (during the age of Leo), where there is speculation of if this indicates when it was built. The age of Leo is mapped out (via the program Skyglobe 3.6 that uses precession to map out where the stars were, are, and will be at any given date) to be from circa 10,970 to 8810 BCE. Upon this past date, the sphinx is said to be aligned in such a way as to stare directly in the direction the sun would rise upon the the spring equinox (i.e. the constellation of Leo "housed the sun" during the spring equinox).


Frequently debunked, I'm afraid.



This means that the lion-bodied Sphinx, with its due-east orientation, would have gazed directly on that morning at the one constellation in the sky that might reasonably be regarded as its own celestial counterpart.


However, I don't know of any evidence (pro or con) about a second sphynx. These figures were fairly popular in Egypt and there's a number of them in existance. None are as large as the one at Giza.

I would tend to be slightly skeptical, since the one at Giza was simply carved out of existing rock and not built by hauling in stone. That would require a similar feature of similar height across the river/nearby, and I'm not sure that I see evidence of this.

However... I'll look into that more at a later time.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 10:10 AM
link   
Just me adding a lil' something here...


...the jackal-headed God of the Dead and the son of Osiris


That would make a bit sense, since the 'tomb/temple of osiris' is supposedly directly(or in the area somewhere) underneath the sphinx...
Or so I've read in this book: "Verbotene Agyptologie" from Erdogan Ercivan or "Forbidden Egyptology" in English...
(google came up with some related topics as well)

I highly doubt it's real, but it would be quite interesting if there were an actual link there.




posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 03:20 PM
link   
2Ch 9:17 Moreover the king(solomon) made a GREAT THRONE of ivory, and overlaid it with pure gold.
2Ch 9:18 And there were six steps to the throne, with a footstool of gold, which were fastened to the throne, and stays on each side of the sitting place, and two lions standing by the stays: {stays: Heb. hands}
2Ch 9:19 And twelve lions stood there on the one side and on the other upon the six steps. There was not the like made in any kingdom.

I have said for those that would hear, that in front of the temple that King Solomon built there were 26 LIONS, I can't think of one word that describes the Sphinx better than LION., especially when you think of Awe and Power.
Second, these lions would have had to be in the general area where the Sphinx now sits and it says that there was nothing close to the likeness of these 26 LIONS made in any Kingdom, which would include Egypt. The Sphinx is the last of the 26 LIONS that once stood around the Great Throne that once was stood before the Great Pyramid.

You can find other temples in Egypt that have several Sphinx in front of them so it seems logical that the Greatest Temple would have had more than one in front of it.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 04:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetSecond, these lions would have had to be in the general area where the Sphinx now sits and it says that there was nothing close to the likeness of these 26 LIONS made in any Kingdom, which would include Egypt. The Sphinx is the last of the 26 LIONS that once stood around the Great Throne that once was stood before the Great Pyramid.



Except that the Sphynx doesn't sit in front of the Great Pyramid (Khufu) but rather in front of the next greatest pyramid (Khafare). I'm rather afraid that all your Biblical text isn't going to change the fact that the causeway leading from the Sphynx doesn't run to the Great Pyramid. :
www.nmia.com...


Given the surface area of the sphynx, and the roads leading to it and the other features there, I do believe we'd have discovered if there were 25 other monuments (sphynxes) in front of the pyramid.

You can see the sphynx in the second picture here, as well as what's all around it. You can also see that there are structures around it and no real place for any similarly-sized monuments.
www.egyptologyonline.com...

...and here:
www.egyptologyonline.com...

The sphynx is to the left of the road...

(and besides, the sphynx was carved out of a single rock that stood there on the plateau. It wasn't built up by blocks.)



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 04:59 PM
link   


Except that the Sphynx doesn't sit in front of the Great Pyramid (Khufu) but rather in front of the next greatest pyramid (Khafare). I'm rather afraid that all your Biblical text isn't going to change the fact that the causeway leading from the Sphynx doesn't run to the Great Pyramid. :


If you simply look to the right in the same illustration you used there is more than ample space for there to have been 26 Sphinx. Actually looking very closely the Sphinx that still stands would have been the one furthest left if you were standing facing the Great Pryamid and depending on the spacing you could neatly fit 12 on each side of a Great Throne that sat dead center in front of the Great Pyramid. Thanks for the illustration it makes easy to visualize. To answer the second part, The Great Pyramid does not need a causeway, it has tunnels and open areas beneath it. Silly rabbit where do you think King Solomon kept his treasures, King Solomons Mines are beneath the Great Pyramid.



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 05:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
2Ch 9:17 Moreover the king(solomon) made a GREAT THRONE of ivory, and overlaid it with pure gold.
2Ch 9:18 And there were six steps to the throne, with a footstool of gold, which were fastened to the throne, and stays on each side of the sitting place, and two lions standing by the stays: {stays: Heb. hands}
2Ch 9:19 And twelve lions stood there on the one side and on the other upon the six steps. There was not the like made in any kingdom.

I have said for those that would hear, that in front of the temple that King Solomon built there were 26 LIONS, I can't think of one word that describes the Sphinx better than LION., especially when you think of Awe and Power.
Second, these lions would have had to be in the general area where the Sphinx now sits and it says that there was nothing close to the likeness of these 26 LIONS made in any Kingdom, which would include Egypt. The Sphinx is the last of the 26 LIONS that once stood around the Great Throne that once was stood before the Great Pyramid.


You are combining the temple that Solomon Built with the Palace of the Forest of Lebanon. 2 Chronicles 3 is the account of Solomons Temple, 2 Chronicles 9 is the account of Palace of the Forest of Lebanon. 2 Chronicles 3:12 (Solomons Temple), then you add verses 18, 19, and 20 from (Palace of the Forest of Lebanon) 2 Chronicles 9. Havent we already gone over this?

bible.gospelcom.net...

2 Chronicles 3:1 and 12

Solomon Builds the Temple
1 Then Solomon began to build the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the LORD had appeared to his father David. It was on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite, the place provided by David.
12 Similarly one wing of the second cherub was five cubits long and touched the other temple wall, and its other wing, also five cubits long, touched the wing of the first cherub.

bible.gospelcom.net...

2 Chronicles 9:15-19

Solomon's Splendor
15 King Solomon made two hundred large shields of hammered gold; six hundred bekas [5] of hammered gold went into each shield. 16 He also made three hundred small shields of hammered gold, with three hundred bekas [6] of gold in each shield. The king put them in the Palace of the Forest of Lebanon.
17 Then the king made a great throne inlaid with ivory and overlaid with pure gold. 18 The throne had six steps, and a footstool of gold was attached to it. On both sides of the seat were armrests, with a lion standing beside each of them. 19 Twelve lions stood on the six steps, one at either end of each step. Nothing like it had ever been made for any other kingdom.



[edit on 4-10-2004 by kinglizard]



posted on Oct, 4 2004 @ 06:27 PM
link   
Kinglizzard, we have already been there. In a earlier post which you remember well, I proved you were in error on the same points, to the extent that you removed your pictures of the tmeple you refer to. King Solomon built more than one temple, the one that had the 26 lions in front was refered to as the Great and Wonderful House let's not go through this again, you were wrong and still are. Do I need to provide you with your earlier erroneous posts ?



posted on Oct, 5 2004 @ 02:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Howard the Dolphin
Another theory is that the sphinx at Giza was/is paired with the constellation of Leo (during the age of Leo), where there is speculation of if this indicates when it was built. The age of Leo is mapped out (via the program Skyglobe 3.6 that uses precession to map out where the stars were, are, and will be at any given date) to be from circa 10,970 to 8810 BCE. Upon this past date, the sphinx is said to be aligned in such a way as to stare directly in the direction the sun would rise upon the the spring equinox (i.e. the constellation of Leo "housed the sun" during the spring equinox).

Frequently debunked, I'm afraid.


Where can I find an example of this "debunking"? I am curious to see the flaws.


Originally posted by Howard the Dolphin
This means that the lion-bodied Sphinx, with its due-east orientation, would have gazed directly on that morning at the one constellation in the sky that might reasonably be regarded as its own celestial counterpart.


However, I don't know of any evidence (pro or con) about a second sphynx. These figures were fairly popular in Egypt and there's a number of them in existance. None are as large as the one at Giza.


I wasn't as clear as I wished to be upon explaining this idea...what I was suggesting is that the leonine constellation Leo might be have been regarded as the other sphinx; the costellation Leo might be large enough to be companions with the terrestrial sphinx, eh? (sarcasm).

If this was clear and is still disagreeable I apologize.

Thanks again Byrd for your input, I like to be challenged and corrected at times.



posted on Oct, 5 2004 @ 05:32 PM
link   
Interesting arguement.

I have only one question, if the second sphinx was the same size as the first, or comparable, wouldn't we have some evidence of it today.

Sure it was destroyed by the Nile flood and the egyptians took it, but wouldn't there at least be some evidence of it still there?

If both the sphinx were built during the same time, then why is that only one survives, while the other was destroyed during the flood?

I am using average joe common sense, so forgive me.

Surf






top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join