Affirmitive Action Scam?

As quoted by Martin Luthor king, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
-- "I Have a Dream" speech, August 28, 1963

How does this fit with affirmitive action? Affirmitive action is people getting judged for the colour of their skin, and so getting preferential treatment. It is simply a scam to aid sections of society more than they deserve. We are created equal and so should not get an advantage because of our colour.

any sort of positive discrimination is a scam , call it what you want but its still discrimination and a scam

At both previous posters - You are absolutely correct.

The minute you take any group of people and enact laws to "help" them, you're discriminating against them. How would you feel if whites were given jobs just because they're white? I mean, let's say you wanted that job you applied for. You really, REALLY wanted it. And you get it. But you realize the only reason you're there is because you were white and that they needed to fill a quota put in place so "your people" could advance itself.

I don't know about you, but I'd feel insulted. I'd personally want to leave. I have a couple of black friends back in the U.S. who has been in that position. They had to work extremely hard, with the feeling that they had to prove themselves worthy to have that position. (I'm sure that's not everyone's case, but to my friends it was.)

It reinforces prejudice against those receiving government privilege and reinforces dependence by them.
Ii'm no ideological purist, though. Perhaps it was justified from the 1960s through the 80s/90s. It should definitely be phased out.

If people think that racism still isn't rampant among employers, your only fooling yourselves. In fact, employers will get around affirmative action by hiring minorities, and then firing them after six months to fudge the numbers.

As long as employers can't hire on qualities alone, affirmative action is probably needed.

I think affirmative action and labor unions have a huge thing in common. They both started as great ideas to address very real 'wrongs' in American society and life. Affirmative action WAS needed when it came into being to force some thick headed business and organizations to give hiring minorities a try...at the point of legal consequence if need be. I think we're a couple decades beyond that need at this point.......

Like Unions though, Affirmative Action has taken on a life all it's own and become a tool to perpetuate itself and those who are most heavily invested in it as a cash cow and institutional reality. Where would Sharpton and Jackson be if they couldn't run out to blow some little wrong out or proportion to appear like a Biblical injustice?

These are only my opinions of course...but Affirmative Action addressed discrimination alright...it did it SO well, it created the very thing it was designed to fight, in the opposite direction.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
If people think that racism still isn't rampant among employers, your only fooling yourselves. In fact, employers will get around affirmative action by hiring minorities, and then firing them after six months to fudge the numbers.

As long as employers can't hire on qualities alone, affirmative action is probably needed.

If employers are indeed doing what you say, then any of the minorities need to start there own business and put the racist employer out of business. If I owned a business and was forced to hire someone based on their skin color, you can bet they wouldn't last long there. I would hire based on the best person for the job. Doesn't matter who or what they are.

All affirmative action does is increase the hostilities towards minorities, anger business owners, and put people that otherwise wouldn't have been good enough for the job, in the job. I would rather have the best fireman pulling me out of a building, than a fireman who is the best "for his/her race".

America is STILL very much racially stratified.

If discrimination by race didn't historically exist in education, housing and the workplace we wouldn't even need affirmative action programs in the first place.

I wouldn't call Affrirmative Action a scam but an unfortunate reality of our culture and society.

An attempt to solve a problem that has long existed in America.

That still exists.

I know most of the ranting here is about Blacks but I always look at the Native Americans who are just as unemployed and as a result and even more impoverished.

Why ?

Because they are and have been excluded from main stream society.

When I attended college, I didn't meet/encounter one single Native American while attending.
No apparent Affirmative Action was applied there...

While working in Corporate America....I can count on one hand the number of Native Americans I even encountered.

Here in New Hampshire we have many cities and towns named after Native Americans but not a single one can be found in my neighborhood.

How many Native Americans do we see on Television as CEOs, Congressmen and/or News Anchors for example ?
When was the last time we have seen a Native American on Television period ?

Affirmative action does not appear to be taking jobs away from able bodied White Americans in those positions.

But the Native Americans are just as poor as they were years ago when placed upon the reservations.

If you can even find them.


Peace

reply to post by nh_ee


How will creating dependence by minorities and anger against them by the majority help the situation?
I don't think anyone said racism doesn't exist anymore. Just that, at this point in history, affirmative action just makes it worse and solidifies the status quo.

Hasnt a black man just achieved the highest rank you can get in this country??

Sorry but I want the best person for the job, period. Do you want the guy running the local fire department to be the best the fire department has to offer, or a guy that they had to pick because the numbers were not up to snuff and he just happened to of had the correct skin tone?

I would be offended if I was a minority and knew the only reason I had a job or promotion was 100% because of my skin and not because I was a kick butt employee that deserved it. This is belittling them

Racism in the workplace is around, but nothing compared to back in the day when rights were first being fought for. Its almost flipped the other way, or at least you see more out right racism against white by minorities now. Im not dumb enough to think the old predigest ways are totally gone, but you cant keep this up forever, its time to move on...

reply to post by nh_ee


The education system on the reservations is horrible.
I had a friend who had to drive 2 hours off the reservation, one way, to get a decent education so she can become a chemistry major.

But they are also very nationalistic societies. They take care of their own, so I think they tend to not stray to far from their communities.

reply to post by superman2012


Agreed but what if the banks are discriminatory to giving loans to minorities?

There are roadblocks at every turn.

Its not that simple.

And you can't suddenly build a fortune 500 company to compete with another. What if a minority wants to enter the business world?

I'm an architect, so I deal a lot with construction contracting firms. We're involved in quite a bit of municipal work and there are required participation percentages due to affirmative action (IE, a certain percentage of the project has to be done by minority-owned businesses). I keep hearing the same thing over and over again, the general contractors have to actively seek out and hire minority-owned contractors who are underqualified and overpaid for the work to meet the required quotas. As a result, the construction cost is higher, and the quality of construction is lower than industry standards. I can't tell you how many times I've found a deficiency on a project and have been told it was because of a minority contractor they were forced to hire to meet quotas. I don't think affirmative action is helping minorities long-term or changing any minds about racism, in fact I would argue that at least in my industry it's just perpetuating the idea that minorities are not equal. The solution isn't to force people to hire unqualified minorities, the solution is to educate minorities in how to build a proper business and to fund them with seed money so that they can compete on equal terms.

How are the groups chosen for affirmitive action? It seems to me that there are many deserving groups if you were to look it. Short people tend to achieve less than taller people. Ginger haired people tend to experience prejudice.Orphans: this group tends to have problems due to awful education and the disadvantage of not being brought up in a family. People from poor family backgrounds, abuse, alcoholic/drug addicted parent. Disabled, seems a bit unfair that some groups get help when people can't even go some places because of no ramps.

Every move made to help the AA's was a political move. Period.

If the government truly wanted to help AA's they should have let them separate when they asked. Instead they killed off the only leaders who could have truly led the AA's out of the oppressed mindset, and passed legislation to sweep all the past injustices under the rug.

That's the real problem with racism... none of these injustices have ever been confronted.. they've only been swept under the rug. You wonder why AA's are bitter, and why NA's are bitter as well. All the injustices of the men of antiquity have been swept under the rug.

And until these issues are put forth, this country will always struggle with racism, and bitterness from the past. In fact, this country will always struggle with deception, corruption and the perversion of our civil rights because this country was not truly built on the principles of freedom. It was built on freedom in favor of one particular group of people. this country was not built on truth and integrity. It was built on greed, and deception. It was built with covert tyranny.

We need to reset the USA.
ASAP.

The problems are worldwide. Similar strategies around the world of affirmitive action, causes the same poor results. We need to jump to a different way of looking at equal rights around the world. Maybe something more sophisticated, such as a point system.

reply to post by s12345

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by superman2012

 

Agreed but what if the banks are discriminatory to giving loans to minorities?

There are roadblocks at every turn.

Its not that simple.

And you can't suddenly build a fortune 500 company to compete with another. What if a minority wants to enter the business world?

I see. There are quite a few "what ifs" there. Everyone has a choice in life. You can either let yourself be a victim or you can try to change your life. It doesn't matter if you are a minority or not, there are always roadblocks, it just matters what you do to overcome those roadblocks. Blaming people is not a productive way to spend your time.

PS- When I say "your" I don't actually mean you.

Edit: Fortune 500 companies didn't "just happen" either. They are the product of alot of hard work.

I think that the idea of people being disadvantaged because of other peoples behaviour to them is outmoded. It is an idea that has had int's day. It becomes an excuse to blame other people. Anyway if you erect a policy to blame other people for a particular group: then all that happens is the elite of that group benefit, and the typical erson does not. If a policy was made to aid caucasians in countries where we are a minority, the same thing would happen, the elite of that group would benefit and the typical person would not. If a rule was to help black people, it would end u helping the richest black people. If it was to help native americans, the richest native americans would benefit. The same if you chose chinese, indians, pakistanis, japanese..., As we all live in a capatalist system, being born poor or rich is part of that system. So tackling problems associated with being poor will always be liited. I live in britain, we have a welfare state, the nhs national health service, but the some of disadvantages of not being part of the elite willnever be removed because it is part of capitalism. The realproblem is lack of social mobility. But the wealthy will not want that as their children then could end up poor. Obama is black but would not want a completely fair chance for all as his children may then end up moving down in the world financially. I would imagine being born to a president is winning the jackpot in America in terms of life chances.

reply to post by s12345


The U.S. government has determined some people are more equal than others, and require federally enforced discrimination based on their race, color, national origin, religion, sex, age or disability; but not on work experience, criminal record, or training. And this federally enforced discrimination does not end once the person is hired, it continues indefinitely so those 'more equal' people can take advantage of liberties and privileges others cannot despite what the company policies say simply by uttering the word "Discrimination".