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S.1867: Can they really detain us? Let's find out.

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posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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I would feel much better if the word "requirement" was replaced with the word "ability". I'm sure scholars like Judge Napolitano has a far greater understanding of the wording in this bill than whoever wrote this post, and he said it's the death of america.




posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:52 PM
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I want to add that Senator Kelly Ayotte and Senator Lindsay Graham stated yesterday that an American citizen can be denied Miranda rights and held indefinitely if he/she is determined to belong to a terrorist organization. Considering that they have come out and said it explicitly, I think the question of this thread has been answered. If you are determined to be a member of, or affiliated with, a terrorist organization, you can be denied your rights, detained indefinitely by the military, even if you are indeed an American citizen, and that they believe they can KILL an American citizen if they are determined to be a terrorist. Senator Graham will also give you a quick course on laws that have been in place since 2001. I don't know how much more clear this can be. Here it is:

Ayotte and Graham answer the question...
edit on 16-12-2011 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-12-2011 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by MiloNickels
 


I am a fan of most of Judge Napolitano's stuff, but you must remember his livelihood is selling books and advertising, so ratings are a contributing factor.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by OrchusGhule
 


Sen. Lindsay Graham omits a somewhat significant factor in the Padilla case. The court concluded his detention was legal, based on actions he took while outside the country. The precedent used was Ex Parte Quirin


"[c]itizens who associate themselves with the military arm of the enemy government, and with its aid, guidance and direction enter this country bent on hostile acts, are enemy belligerents within the meaning of . . . the law of war."


The court also considered the Bush administration's written justification for the detention, making the following distinctions


The exceedingly important question before us is whether the President of the United States possesses the authority to detain militarily a citizen of this country who is closely associated with al Qaeda, an entity with which the United States is at war; who took up arms on behalf of that enemy and against our country in a foreign combat zone of that war; and who thereafter traveled to the United States for the avowed purpose of further prosecuting that war on American soil, against American citizens and targets.


So, although technically it was the detention of a U.S. citizen, the detention was not a matter of just yanking someone off the street and calling them an enemy belligerent or enemy combatant or terrorist. In both explanations, a
multi-prong test is applied, which includes actually engaging in combat against the U.S., alongside and with the aide of a foreign enemy.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


Oh well thats fine then.... they can't detain US citizens but they can detain civvies from anywhere else on earth.....
Now all they have to do is re-work how a civilian citizen is defined i suppose.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Silcone Synapse
 


I think the US people should be fighting to stop anyone from being indefinately detained, not just US citizens.

The way the US just makes up its own international laws is just mind boggling. I have never known a more arrogant and self rightious nation. Who dose Obama think he is, that he can just send troops across someone elses boarder to "arrest" them and cart them off to god knows where.

I always thaught it was the job of the Police to arrest people and it was a soldiers job to fight other soldiers for his country. Last time I looked utside my place, none of the civillians were wearing millitary uniforms or carrying guns.

This bill is partly one of the reasons I don't want another several thousand American troops stationed in Australia. I'd actually like to shee the troops already here sent home..!!


edit on 12/17/2011 by Ironclad because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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this is interesting:




As RT reported on Thursday, members of Anonymous began a campaign this week to expose information on the lawmakers who voted in favor of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, a bill that will allow for the indefinite detention of American citizens, the reinstating of torture methods and the creation of the United States as a battlefield. Despite the implications of the act, the Senate allowed for the bill to leave Capitol Hill on Thursday, leaving only the inking of President Barack Obama’s name as the final step for ratification.
www.pakalertpress.com... &utm_campaign=Feed%3A+pakalert+%28Pak+Alert+Press%29

i think pakalertpress is getting information from rt.com




President Obama had earlier insisted on vetoing the bill, but the White House retracted that statement in the days before it cleared Congress. Before the final draft left the Senate yesterday, Sen. Carl Levin asked that a statement from the administration be added to the record in which the president’s press secretary, Jay Carney, said that the president will not be advised to strike down the bill. On Thursday, Anonymous hacktivists launched a campaign against Senator Robert Portman, a Republican from Ohio. Not only did Portland vote in favor of NDAA FY2012, he received $272,853 from special interest groups that also backed the bill.
www.pakalertpress.com... &utm_campaign=Feed%3A+pakalert+%28Pak+Alert+Press%29



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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Thank you for contacting me regarding the military detention and prosecution of terrorists. I appreciate having the benefit of your comments on this important matter. I do not believe terrorists should be brought to the United States and be granted the same rights and privileges as American criminal defendants. Terrorists should be kept at Guantanamo Bay and prosecuted through the military commissions established by Congress under terms circumscribed by the United States Supreme Court. Trying to hold civilian trials in the United States for terrorists does nothing more than place Americans at risk, while providing terrorists with a platform from which to spew their hate-filled ideology and recruit like-minded fanatics around the world to join them in jihad. We must not forget that we are a nation at war against ruthless killers who wear no uniforms and use civilians as human shields. Treating these war crimes as ordinary criminal acts and trying these killers in a civilian court under the U.S. Constitution is simply reverting to a dangerous, pre-9/11 mentality. As you may know, Congress passed the Military Commissions Acts of 2006 and 2009, making a powerful statement that U.S. civilian courts are not the appropriate venue to bring terrorists to justice. The military commissions were specifically designed to prevent damaging disclosures and to protect classified information, as well as sensitive sources and methods. We know that these military commissions have a long history in our Republic—dating back from the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, to World War II. They are the most appropriate forum for terrorists to be tried for their crimes. Therefore, I supported amendments to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (FY 2012 NDAA; S. 1867) regarding terrorist detention practices. Section 1031 of the FY 2012 NDAA would reaffirm the President’s military detention authority under the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (P.L. 107—40). Additionally, Section 1032 would require military custody for a certain subset of unprivileged enemy belligerents, members of al-Qaeda and affiliated entities, pending their disposition under the law of war. By its terms, Section 1032 does not apply to U.S. citizens. These provisions were included in the FY 2012 NDAA that was unanimously reported out of the Senate Armed Services Committee. I appreciate having the opportunity to represent you in the United States Senate. Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Sincerely, JOHN CORNYN United States Senator



posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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Excellent, let's use this bill to our advantage and start the round up of arrests to the following traitors whom have usurped and derided the American people of trillions of dollars, hundreds of years (combined) of lost time (time=money), lost lives of civilians and military; international and domestic. Punitive damages should also be assessed for

Bankers- CHARGES: Financial terrorism, money laundering, acceptance of government provided bailouts without the intention of paying back loans provided by the sweat and labor of the American people, aiding and abetting the ferderal reserve.

Goldman Sucks-CHARGES: Financial terrorism with an enhancement penalty for subverting sound monetary laws on sovereign territory, count 2: monetizing loss and ensuring ill gotten gains for yourself. Extortion and racketeering charges, bribery. Recruiting civil servants of the highest echelons of American government with malicious motives bestowing them with money, power and prestige in exchange for clout and an open door policy to change the laws to suit your agendas.

Federal Reserve-CHARGES: Financial terrorism with an enhancement penalty of death and a declaration of war to the central hub for which it is an extension of. Operating on false pretenses on behalf of the American government to aid and abet chaos and destruction while usurping the Treasury rendering it useless as a fair and discriminatory agency against corporate powers such as the IMF and world bank. This penalty shall extend to the board of supervisors and the active chairman (Bernanke) including every living past chairman, especially greenspan.

Congress-CHARGES: Domestic terrorism- For engaging in the illusionary role of active participation while the American constituents suffer innumerable losses. A thorough, absolute reconciliation of individual conduct and proficiency judged by the citizenry of the politician's respected territory, paid for by the politician under scrutiny, with maximum penalties assessed to include life imprisonment with hard labor. Upon findings, related to crimes of a grievous nature in collaboration with entities also charged on this rap sheet, we the people pray that death to these traitors is the only acceptable outcome.

Phony Presidents-CHARGES: CHIEF TERRORIST, Operating as Executive officer to the financial terrorists, war dept., military industrial complex, Israel, NATO and the IMF. Taking orders from international banking cartels, derilection of duty while sitting in the highest tier of American government. Usurping congress, malicious abuse of presidential powers, overriding congress in matters pertaining to our precious constitution. Outright defying the constitution and turning America into a spy for profit, surveillance society devoid of the happiness once pursued by men greater than you. Utter destruction AND harmful interpretation of the Bill of Rights. Knowingly accepting the position of POTUS not of votes, but of appointment. Accepting the now traitorous POTUS position for personal gain and contributing to distorted communist/fascist/socialist idealism. We pray that death be the only outcome to honor our Framers, forefathers, patriots, veterans and those that have fallen in our past war campaigns.

OK, ATS I'm gettin more pissed by the keystroke. So if y'all care to add on to my rant, g'head, please do.

edit on 19-12-2011 by MaxJohnson because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-12-2011 by MaxJohnson because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by ConspiracyTruth
 


What a douche bag of a senator, much like almost all of them. Yeah, don't worry, it's all about THEM, not you. THEM over there, THEM you'll never meet, THEM with darker skin, THEM! Yeah THEM is such a threat. Too bad for the Senators most people now realize THEY are the real problem. I wish people had enough already, and stared fixing this mess.




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