The Isaiah 9:10 prophecy: Is U.S. under God's judgment?

Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

I will say yes the US is under God's judgement.

So is every nation.

God did not create Nations. Man created nations to divide man. Those things which divide against the whole will be judged accordingly.

With Love,

Your Brother

Yes you are right. Not just the U.S. but the entire planet. There will come a reckoning when mankind must face the music and that time is coming sooner than most people believe or even realize. It's not coming, it has begun.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

There will come a reckoning when mankind must face the music and that time is coming sooner than most people believe or even realize. It's not coming, it has begun.

It began, happened, and was finished by Jesus.
What you are talking about is Old Testament prophecies and they have been fulfilled, remember when Jesus said he came to fulfill the prophets? He did not say, "I came to fulfill a few prophecies and you will have to wait around for a couple thousand years for me to come a second time to fulfill the rest of them, but don't worry, all those prophecies will have to be fulfilled, literally, and by the letter, every single one."
You are listening to someone who thinks that but they just made it up and of course is anti-christ because it reverses everything Jesus said and did.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Okay, please enlighten us who are less worthy of God's grace than you. Instead of just reiterating your original point and attacking our character why don't you actually provide some logical, historical or scriptural evidence to back up your claim that it was all "made up". Seriously, your posts so far in this thread have shown little more than your lack of biblical knowledge, lack of respect for Jesus's commandment not to judge others, and that you know how to take something out of context and run with it.

To my knowledge the OT mentions the Messiah's second coming even more than his first coming. That combined with the fact that Jesus gives us the fig tree parable, asks us to be observant of the sign of the times, and predicts the destruction of the second temple after his death proves that Jesus's resurrection didn't exactly tie up all the loose ends in the Bible. It may have tied up the loose ends in God's plan for humanity's salvation, but not the 6 days (6000 years) of creation and following day (1000 years) of rest. Jesus would have come to the world on or around the 4th day. We are currently nearing the end of the 6th day.

...Or are you suggesting that 2 Peter 3:8 is fabricated scripture as well?

We are given the signs in Revelations. Why would God give us the signs if we were never intended to interpret them? We are seeing these things come to pass in our day. Remember the fig tree. Big surprise, mandatory RFID chips supposedly go into effect with a new health care bill starting next year. I'm fairly certain this is the mark of the beast.

Your argument that I am antichrist for simply exposing these truths is laughable. Remember who the deceiver and the accuser is. Unless you give us something better to work with I have no choice but to write you off as a troll.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

I will say yes the US is under God's judgement.

So is every nation.

God did not create Nations. Man created nations to divide man. Those things which divide against the whole will be judged accordingly.

With Love,

Your Brother

Well said my friend. I only point to the US because of the domino effect that occurred globally after 9/11.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

. . . scriptural evidence to back up your claim that it was all "made up".

Excuse me?
I can't prove a negative.
I'm saying it is not there.
The proof is it is not there.
If you think it is there, then show where it is there.

For anyone who is interested, there are two good books you can read and they are on my book list on my profile page in comments, Paperback Apocalypse, and End-Time Madness, that shows step by step how all this end of the world business is "made-up".

To my knowledge the OT mentions the Messiah's second coming even more than his first coming.

Right here you are proving my point. All this philosophy about the second coming comes from the OT, which ignores the quotation of Jesus that the old prophecies prophesied up until the time of John the Baptist.
Now you may not like that, and you may believe the old prophecies need to be fulfilled in a way that Jesus did not. Now if you feel that strongly, you should continue on the course you are already on and renounce Christianity and covert to Judaism and sit around hoping for a future Messiah who will leave you feeling satisfied in a way that Jesus did not.

...Or are you suggesting that 2 Peter 3:8 is fabricated scripture as well?

This is one of the most questionable books there are in the NT, so yes, as far as not being by Peter, and a much later writing from around 200A.D. This shows evidence of using themes taken from that unfortunate apocalypse, Enoch.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by DarkKnight21
I'm saying it is not there.
The proof is it is not there.
If you think it is there, then show where it is there.

Actually, the burden of proof is still on you. I have simply advocated the Rabbi's case that we are currently in the end times and I have provided plenty of scripture, logic, and current and historical events to support his claims. In case you forgot what your position was, see your original post in this thread:

Originally posted by jmdewey60
The What? Tribulation?
I'm pretty sure that already happened a long time ago.

To call yourself a believer while simultaneously rejecting the book of Revelations is a bold claim. If those prophecies concerning end times "already happened a long time ago" it should be easy to prove with historical data. Please don't provide an empty argument by referring me to a book. If you read it and it has convinced you, you should have some understanding of what it says. You need to clarify that before you go on making more claims.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Right here you are proving my point. All this philosophy about the second coming comes from the OT

Not only is it in the New Testament, Jesus said it:

Matthew 24

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The Day and Hour Unknown

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Notice how he points out that the gospel must be preached across the whole world before the end is to come. At the time of Christ's ressurection, the Americas had yet to be discovered. This is prophecy that could only be fulfilled today in the age of the internet.

Also, your argument is completely mathematically fallacious. Considering his resurrection was 2,000 years ago and you say he fulfilled everything at that time, you do know the 1,000 year reign of Christ would have already ended by now, right?

To say otherwise is to live in ignorance of the violent persecution of Christians worldwide.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

Please don't provide an empty argument by referring me to a book.

That was not an argument but a note to anyone interested in learning about where all these end-times theories come from, which apparently you are not among.
My proof is the Book of Revelation itself which obviously is a lot of symbolism and nothing literal about it.
My claim is that apocalyptic theories come from the Old Testament and not the New Testament. Revelation says absolutely nothing about a second coming.
The "historical data" is the destruction of the Temple along with a general destruction of the city of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. unless you think John was alive after that happened, then you need to come up with evidence that he was, which of course is nonexistent.

reply to post by jmdewey60

My claim is that apocalyptic theories come from the Old Testament and not the New Testament. Revelation says absolutely nothing about a second coming.

That's what Revelation is about, the revealing or 2nd coming of Christ. Go read Revelation 19:11-58, 20:1-3.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Here is a vignette of the toppling of the Beast and the False Prophet. Instrumental in this is Truth, who is symbolized with a sharp sword coming from his mouth, which is reminiscent of another place in the NT which also so describes Truth.

Truth has authority of the highest type to do what has to be done to allow truth to flourish and to dispense with a false system which had been prevalent up to a particular time when things needed to be changed.
King of Kings and Lord of Lords is an OT way of referring to God. So this is something being done by God's behest.
There is no direct reference to Jesus but it may be implied with the blood drenched clothes which shows that the work of Jesus made this possible.
But there is no rapture and no judgement of individuals per se, so there is no similarity with other accounts being promoted as second coming scenarios. There is an in-gathering of souls from the world to the feast and that happens with the removal of the hindrances to the spread of the Gospel, then Jesus can come on Earth in a spiritual way to claim those who are his, and that has been going on for over nineteen hundred years.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Jesus's words about the end times in the above quote are more literal than anything written in the Book of Revelations. The fact that you have now ignored and denied Jesus's words now proves to me you are in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The fact that you maintain a mathematically erroneous argument just proves ignorance.

And as I must deny ignorance, I must deny your words, as well as their anti-Semitic ulterior motives.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

Jesus's words about the end times in the above quote are more literal than anything written in the Book of Revelations. The fact that you have now ignored and denied Jesus's words now proves to me you are in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The fact that you maintain a mathematically erroneous argument just proves ignorance.

And as I must deny ignorance, I must deny your words, as well as their anti-Semitic ulterior motives.

You seem to have strong feelings of a cult member variety.
You present an edited version of an entire chapter then say, 'this is true and you are wrong because you do not accept it', while you do the thing you accused me of doing earlier, presenting a "hollow argument" by citing a couple books without any explanation or any indication that I even understand the books I just mentioned, where you present a chapter from Mathew and say, 'here you go, this is my argument'.
Jesus is giving a parable about the servant and the lord of a house and to be prepared for the return of the lord who you are the servant of. You can interpret that to mean that the Jews who were the rulers are not ruling in a just sort of way over the people and the temple and the owner of them (God) will demand some sort of retribution. You could take the destruction of the temple as the fulfillment and there is no reason to think Jesus was talking about the sort of second coming event as portrayed in popular current mythology.

I have no idea what you mean by "mathematically erroneous". I could attempt to explain the logic: Jesus lived on earth as a human being and during that life he went around saying things to people which were later recorded. Jesus made some remarks about things that would happen, such as looking at the temple and saying, 'not one stone will be left upon another'. There was such an event and it happened after Jesus said that it would.

I am not an anti-Semite and I have to laugh to myself every time I see someone making this claim (with no substantiation whatsoever). I do have a problem with the radical form of Zionism which exists today and is working out its plans at the expense of morality and the keeping to international laws and treaties and rules against crimes against humanity. If you do not have a problem with that then I would say you should not call yourself a christian when you by ignoring it are complicit for aiding and abetting murder, plain and simple.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

Jesus's words about the end times in the above quote are more literal than anything written in the Book of Revelations. The fact that you have now ignored and denied Jesus's words now proves to me you are in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The fact that you maintain a mathematically erroneous argument just proves ignorance.

And as I must deny ignorance, I must deny your words, as well as their anti-Semitic ulterior motives.

You seem to have strong feelings of a cult member variety.
You present an edited version of an entire chapter then say, 'this is true and you are wrong because you do not accept it', while you do the thing you accused me of doing earlier, presenting a "hollow argument" by citing a couple books without any explanation or any indication that I even understand the books I just mentioned, where you present a chapter from Mathew and say, 'here you go, this is my argument'.

I didn't just refer you to a book, I referred you to a sermon that Jesus spoke and I even explained it. This has been copy/pasted directly from a New International Version - if you feel it is wrong, please show where it is wrong and why. (Don't worry, I already highlighted the parts I expected you to ignore.) They are Jesus's words, not mine - that is the point I was trying to make. By your words and actions you deny what Jesus says to be truth. You are against Christ. By definition, you have exposed yourself as an antichrist and have zero authority to make accusations against others.

Your argument is mathematically fallacious by 1,000 years. If you still do not understand why, please go back and reread the thread.

As of now you have lost your credibility as a disciple of Christ and as a seeker of truth. If you continue to make further accusations, I will use this thread in the future as proof of your hypocrisy and I will invite others to do the same. You stop telling lies about Christians, and we will stop telling the truth about you.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

I already highlighted the parts I expected you to ignore.

I noticed the highlighting so that was exactly what I addressed in my last post.
Apparently you have no answer to it so you pretend I did not deal with the verses you quoted.
Great, if you think that gives you credibility.
If you were to actually make a commentary on one of those verses, I would be happy to reply to it.
Or if you wanted to comment on what I actually wrote, I would be happy to reply to that too.
Seems all you are interested in is name calling.
So, what exactly is your definition of ant-christ?
Jesus said 'I have not come to judge the world but to save the world' according to the Gospel of John.
Seems you believe if someone does not believe that Jesus is going to destroy the world then they are not a Christian.
This is a medieval eschatology developed by Thomas Aquinas where he took the apocalyptic imagery from 2 Peter 3:10 literally, and decided that everyone on earth had to be killed (then brought back to life) so that they could all stand in judgment at the same time, in the valley of Jehoshaphat.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Seems all you are interested in is name calling.
So, what exactly is your definition of ant-christ?

You defined it yourself, not I. Your argument doesn't even work mathematically so why should I even bother taking it seriously until you work that little loophole out?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Jesus said 'I have not come to judge the world but to save the world'

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I think this sort of talk is anti-christ in that it denies Jesus

Originally posted by jmdewey60
You have Satan as your king

Originally posted by jmdewey60
You worship Satan

Originally posted by jmdewey60
You seem to have strong feelings of a cult member variety

Originally posted by jmdewey60
and of course is anti-christ because it reverses everything Jesus said and did

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Revelation says absolutely nothing about a second coming

Originally posted by jmdewey60
you are aiding and abetting murder

So many contradictions, so little time...

reply to post by DarkKnight21
That is just really strange.

You may want to explain yourself a little because you are not making any sense.

So what is the contradiction?
That I used the word, anti-christ, then ask what your definition is?
You said that "by definition" I was anti-christ, so it may seem natural to ask what that definition is which I somehow fit, according to you. You really aren't making a good argument for your position and more make yourself seem a little unbalanced.

They probably didn't make sense because they were your quotes.

Again, by your actions as shown above you have denied what Jesus says to be truth. That truth being not to judge others. You are against what Christ says thus you are against Christ. By definition, you have exposed yourself as an antichrist and have zero authority to make accusations against others.

"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." - Matthew 15:8

reply to post by DarkKnight21

Thus you are against Christ. By definition, you have exposed yourself as an antichrist and have zero authority to make accusations against others.

It seems to me that you have a lack of sense for irony.
You can't judge someone for judging someone, that does not even make sense, somehow your judgment is true and the other's is false. First you need to substantiate that you are right and I am wrong, which you don't, you just say I have to be wrong because I don't agree with you.
You don't see a problem with all of this?

reply to post by jmdewey60


You are wrong because the math doesn't work, plain and simple. You have been judged by your own standards. I have advocated the case for Christ using scripture. If you are against what I say, by default you take position against Christ.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

If you are against what I say, by default you take position against Christ.

What I recommend is that you take this sentence I quoted and print it and cut it up into cards and distribute them about and give copies to all your relatives and friends and add on them that you would like some feedback from them about how they think of you making a statement like this. Give one to the pastor and members of your church. Then come back and post the results of your survey. You could even have a multiple choice list where people can check a box. Start with, A. You are the virtual God on Earth, to E. I could refer you to a good doctor. The best thing is to buy a package of pre-stamped post cards and run them through your printer, making them self-addressed, and all identical. That way people can vote anonymously by just dropping it off at a convenient mail box.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

If you are against what I say, by default you take position against Christ.

What I recommend is that you take this sentence I quoted and print it and cut it up into cards and distribute them about and give copies to all your relatives and friends and add on them that you would like some feedback from them about how they think of you making a statement like this. Give one to the pastor and members of your church. Then come back and post the results of your survey. You could even have a multiple choice list where people can check a box. Start with, A. You are the virtual God on Earth, to E. I could refer you to a good doctor. The best thing is to buy a package of pre-stamped post cards and run them through your printer, making them self-addressed, and all identical. That way people can vote anonymously by just dropping it off at a convenient mail box.

I'd suggest the same exercise, use the quotes brought to your attention above. Report back the results.