Town Vows to Defend Nativity “Until Hell Freezes Over”

It might be useful, in this discussion, to look at whether or not it is in fact against the law for a nativity scene to be displayed on public land.

As I have noted a few times in this thread, the Founding Fathers intended Separation of Church and State to mean that there cannot be a declared "official State religion", and that laws based solely on religious doctrine are not allowed.

To repeat...

James Madison said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that "Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law."

and...

Thomas Jefferson wrote that legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

Furthermore...

...the United States Supreme Court has now dealt with the issue of nativity scenes.(1) The Supreme Court has never ruled that all nativity scenes on public property are unconstitutional. To the contrary, nativity scenes are constitutional if properly displayed.

...a Publicly-Sponsored nativity scene is one that is erected and maintained by city officials on public property. The key to the constitutionality of a publicly-sponsored nativity scene is that it must have a secular symbol of Christmas within the context of the nativity scene.

So...throw in a Frosty the Snowman and you are good to go!

...A Privately-Sponsored nativity scene can also be displayed on public property, with the main difference being that the display is erected and maintained by private citizens instead of public officials.

www.lc.org...

So...as opposed to what some have argued here...there is nothing at all illegal about the County (or a private group) erecting and maintaining a nativity scene on courthouse property. The people complaining do not have a legal leg to stand on.

This is not a "separation of church and state" issue.

You may personally disagree...but you will have to take it up with the Supreme Court.

"Oh no, they have a little scene on the grass! My day is ruined now!" I really don't see why people get so upset over something so trivial. I'm not religious in the slightest, and I couldn't care less if someone has a nativity scene out on display. I mean really, there are so many other things to be worrying about x10000 more important than how some people choose to celebrate a holiday 1 month out of the year.

reply to post by GR1ill3d


I agreed to the OP until i read your post, good point.

Host it in your own backyard, don't force anyone to be christian.

reply to post by mobiusmale


Wouldnt it be law the very second it got allowed after the complaint?

reply to post by PrimalRed


i wanted to reply already when you mixed OWS in all this but...

You replies dont make any sense

I never could understand why atheists gave a crap about religious decorations during the holidays? They don't believe, so why do they care so much? If the majority of the people in the town want a nativity then they should have it, case closed.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Satan Claus is a mockery of God ..

Santa Claus was a real person ... St. Nicholas He was a bishop in the Catholic church (thus the red outfit) and he was very generous. During the Christmas season he'd go into the homes of the poor and put money into the stockings that were hanging by the chimney to dry after being washed.

As the years went by, the real story got fed on and grew into a childs story. But the original story - of St. Nicholas - is one of generosity and goodness.

edit on 12/9/2011 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

I know who St. Nicholas was. I was referring to the fatman in a red suit that flies around on a magical sleigh and exhibits Godlike powers of omniscience but has pagan elves working for him.

Originally posted by Romekje
reply to post by GR1ill3d

 

I agreed to the OP until i read your post, good point.

Host it in your own backyard, don't force anyone to be christian.

How does having a nativity force anyone to be a christian? This makes zero sense.

Originally posted by discharged77
I never could understand why atheists gave a crap about religious decorations during the holidays? They don't believe, so why do they care so much? If the majority of the people in the town want a nativity then they should have it, case closed.

They want to enforce their will on other people, other people who outnumber them. They just don't like to see that people revere stories about events they consider to be fairytales.

If you even mention the name Jesus be prepared to have an atheist piss in your cornflakes.

More liberal nonsense. Their lies and double standards are sickening and insane to normal people who live in their circus they've created in America where criminals have more rights than victims and everything good is bad while
everything bad is good..
They cry it's an abuse of separation of church and state when a nativity scene is on a lawn of a courthouse yet take taxpayer money to fund abortions which are totally against our beliefs.

I'm an atheist who celebrates Christmas, because I was raised celebrating it and it was always one of my most joyous and favorite times of year. It wasn't because of presents. It was because of the communion with family. The exchanging of gifts was more rewarding than the receiving. Sharing gifts, food, jokes, just a really good time. My drunken uncles usually (there were a couple of exceptions throughout the years) would push their alcoholism to the side just to spend time with the whole family. Some of my best and most cherished memories are from Christmas Eve's at my grandmother's house.

Like I said, I'm an atheist. And yet I still celebrate Christmas. And not the Santa/Rudolph/Frosty version. No, I celebrate the Christian (Pagan, yes) holiday. I love hearing the religious Christmas songs (O Holy Night, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, etc.) on the radio because they are beautiful, and actually the Santa Claus songs really get on my nerves.

I think anyone who making an uproar about being offended by a scene depicting the universal symbol of peace and goodwill should be punched in the face, then given some punch and a candy cane. Lighten up, fools. Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean you can't respect and admire the divinity of the season.

Originally posted by GR1ill3d
reply to by mobiusmale

 

The good folks of Henderson County, Texas have decided to draw a line in the sand...and stand and fight for their right to continue to erect a nativity scene on the lawn of their courthouse - as they have done for 35 years.

If it were on privately owned land(s) this would be a non-issue. But since it's on a land paid for by the taxpayers (which includes Theists and Atheists), it has become such.

Seperation of Church and State...

I have a better idea. It involves tar+ feathers.

P.S
The separation between church and state is a legal myth created by backstabbing atheist Judges.

If anything the law is clear that Government can't infringe on religion.

US Constitution, 1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Where does it say "religion has to stay out" of government?

US Constitution, 1st Amendment
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Interesting....

Here is an idea: do not look at it.

It is easy to ignore things.

Unless you are totally up in arms about it being set up on the grounds of a courthouse, which I can understand your issue, but it seems petty to me.

I can not think of any reason some poor adult would have his sensibilities offended by something he has, in all probability, seen most of his life and suddenly has an issue. Sometimes I am baffled by the issues people tend to be vocal about compared to other things that are more important.

reply to post by Kryties


Why can't we all just let bygones be bygones and let his or her beliefs be displayed freely to any religion?
Is it really hurting anyone? (No.) People just like to complain (that applies to both religious and non-religious).
If you don't want to see it, don't go look at it. It's not like someone is forcing you to have a nativity scene in your own home.
From what I've read, it's a mostly Christian community, for the Atheists that live in that community, what can they expect? The majority isn't going stop displaying their beliefs just for the few that don't like it. Obviously allot of that community wants it there, so why not? It's just a nativity scene. If it were a display of any other belief, I'd say it'd be just as fine.
All I can say is stop complaining, I'll really hate when people complain about such petty things. Just enjoy the holidays.

reply to post by AnonATI


It's not that the nativity scene is up on display, it's the fact that it's on public, government property that people are having the problem with.
2nd

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Secular laws are NEEDED to keep things from being crazy.

You mean like that whole seperation of church and state thingy?

There is no separation of church and state thingy.
The law says that the state will not establish a religion.
That's different.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
but that's Saint Nicholas not Santa Claus.

Santa = Saint.
Claus = Nicolas
Saint Nicolas = Santa Claus
The story is even on some Hallmark cards.


Again ... if the people of the town vote to put up the decorations .. then that's the way the people of the town want it. If others in town don't like it then vote against it or move out. Again I put forth San Francisco that - AGAINST THE LAW - has declared itself a 'safe haven for illegals' - which taxpayer money has to shoulder the burden. Put a stop to the so called 'safe haven for illegals' - which is against the law and extremely expensive - then talk to me about a small town in Texas buying a little plastic baby Jesus to put in the center of town for a few weeks each year.

They're definitely going to wait for a while then

reply to post by mobiusmale


I just love how the economy is falling part, the world is on the brink of war and in a small town in Texas, they get all pissed off over a nativity scene! What the hell is wrong with these folks? What made them think that it was a good idea to put a nativity scene on a COURTHOUSE lawn? That's just up there with the folks that wanted to post the 10 commandments on a courthouse.

Here's an idea for those folks:

Keep your #ing nativity scenes on the lawns of your churches! Courthouses are not an extension of the church and like schools, should not be promoting ANY religion!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
There is no separation of church and state thingy.
The law says that the state will not establish a religion.
That's different.

Please tell me what you think the "Respecting any religion" part means. Obviously you got it wrong so we need to start over with you. Where did you get it wrong?

Originally posted by mobiusmale
As I have noted a few times in this thread, the Founding Fathers intended Separation of Church and State to mean that there cannot be a declared "official State religion", and that laws based solely on religious doctrine are not allowed.

What do you think a Christian Courthouse lawn is?
How is the courthouse not promoting Christianity?

James Madison said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that "Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law."

You might want to read that again; Especially the last 9 words.