Police cleared for pepper-spraying haka

reply to post by Aim64C

Not got time to go through all ofthe points, I'm off to have some physio in a bit. But if you think any of the "elected" actually stand for any of us, then you are grossly mistaken. Pretty much all of the political parties who have a chance of getting in, are basically the same party, holding up the same corrupted system. Different faces, of the same coin, if you like. Here's the new boss, same as the old boss.
ectect.

They use fear via media to control people, make people feel that they need to stand up and fight for their country, in illegal wars where you just go and terrorise a country for no actual reason. And those who oppose these actions are seen as unpatriotic, or even terorists. But if you look at the defintion for terrorist in the dictionary, you can apply each point to the police. becasue the police are basically terrorists, working for a terrorist organisation (the goverment) who rule over us and get fat on our rewards. I do not know 1 single person who would vote for a system like that. (well, maybe Adolf Hitler)

And as for your comments as to how were they supposed to know about the haka. prehaps if the police force employed people who were inteligent people, who have the capacity to think, then incidents like these would be fewer.

reply to post by Kryties


Uneducated idiots,the HAKA has been performed as a ritual meeting by these people for thousands of years.
I mean they even do it to the Queen and other visiting dignitareis when visits New zealand.

reply to post by Kryties

I dare you to walk up to a Kiwi and describe his country that way, I guarantee it will not be a pleasant meeting.

What the hell do I care what a "Kiwi" thinks about my description of their country? You're small. You're quite insignificant. And quite frankly there is very little reason for anyone in the USA to know jack about the country besides the wonderful locations LoTR was filmed. Let alone know some retarded taunting dance.

You are clearly clueless of other cultures. The Haka is a well respected tradition that has been performed for over 120 years, to call it 'obscure' and the people who performed it 'retarded immigrants' just shows how culturally insensitive and closed off from the outside world you are.

So is pole dancing. What's your point? It's pretty effing obscure, and I couldn't give a damn if I'm "culturally insensitive" you or anyone else thinks I am.. I should be a walking cultural wikipedia less I dare offend someone. How about this: Those dumbasses were being culturally insensitive to American culture. Ohhhhh it only works one way, when your culture is small and insignificant enough that you're in the ultra minority of minorities. Gotcha.

I'm still really confused as to 1. Why I (or the cops, or anyone for that matter) is supposed to know what the heck a haka dance is.

And 2. Why it's called being "culturally insensitive" for being offended at an action, regardless of where it's from, because it's downright rude and in this case alarming.

reply to post by Kryties

Troll.

It's called a trawl.

Clearly you have never had the pleasure of meeting a Maori Kiwi. Good luck with that.

8 pounds. 8 pounds of pressure is all it takes to render a limb useless without extensive surgery.

But I guarantee most of the rest of the world has. That was kind of my point in the OP, how stupid and closed off can some Americans be?

Would you... care to source this?

I'm Aussie. The Haka is Kiwi. LEARN YOUR COUNTRIES - oh that's right, Americans don't feel the need to know about the rest of the world.

Sorry, communications breakdown. "Your" can be ambiguous when I use it - meaning the comment is directed at any reader. Therefor, my comment would be translated: "If you go around presuming the world knows about your customs and traditions, it is quite arrogant."

I do that quite often - speak to the reader more than the person I quoted - unless I'm casting an insult out. Then it's generally directed at the person I quoted.

Aggressive posture? The Haka is a cultural tradition. Please learn some culture, if you can bring yourself to admit that there is a world outside America.

Yes. That is considered an aggressive posture. Low center of mass. Elevated voice. Direct eye contact.

There are also other circumstances in this particular instance: - the blocking of traffic, the 'targeting' of the opposing team's spectators, and the failure to comply with officers' instructions to cease.

Thank you for showing your complete and utter ignorance to anything that is not American.

That's all a fine and dandy criticism.

In case you didn't know... The town this happened in is in Utah - a state that is joined in a federal union of states known as the United States of America.

When I go to Korea, I abide by their customs. When I go to the UAE - I abide by theirs. Even the guys who will hoop and holler after coming out of a restaurant, here, will not there. Why? Because it generally does not go over well in foreign countries to be the loud and obnoxious person who obviously 'isn't from around here.'

There are hundreds of countries on this planet, and several hundred cultural backgrounds and mannerisms. You could devote your whole life to the cultures of the planet and not even get through the half of them before dying of old age.

Perhaps we could adjust the concept. I highly doubt you're familiar with the culture in Puerto Rico - or how/why it's different from the culture of Mexico or Cuba.

You learn more about the cultures and people you interact with. Most Americans have little cause to learn or care much about New Zealand. They choose to learn about Mexico, Canada, ... Japan (though watching anime and attempting to use it to learn Japanese hardly merits ...) the UK, etc.

Of course - one could spend a good deal of time simply learning about the cultural differences within the U.S. Many populations here have lived in relative isolation from each other. Percentage-wise, few North Eastern folk end up in the mid-west or on the West Coast (or South East peninsula/gulf). Different demographic groups have different cultures and dialects, even within the regional cultures and dialects.

Many people simply don't realize how big America is until they get to it. Many exchange students flip the hell out over how long it takes to fly from one point in the country to the other. Five hours later - they are still on the damned plane, and still over the U.S.

Anyway - this has digressed quite well from the topic at hand.

reply to post by Aim64C


If you try to explain the cultural differences between States and regions within the States you'll just blow their minds, they are simply unable to grasp it .. hell many Americans who don't travel outside of their own states don't even know the differences. I'm betting before this incident occurred only a dozen or so could point New Zealand on a map let alone tell you the intricate detail of a Maori tribal dance.

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by Kryties

 

8 pounds. 8 pounds of pressure is all it takes to render a limb useless without extensive surgery.

As I said before, you've never met a Maori or you wouldn't even be thinking that.

But there you go again eh - flexing those American muscles trying to sound like a tough guy. I vomited a little in my mouth.

Would you... care to source this?

How about it ATS? Any non-Americans want to help me prove my point?

Yours was a loaded question by the way, of course there are no official statistics - havingw said that I do know I'm right though.

Sorry, communications breakdown. "Your" can be ambiguous when I use it - meaning the comment is directed at any reader. Therefor, my comment would be translated: "If you go around presuming the world knows about your customs and traditions, it is quite arrogant."

Yep, you have described Americans perfectly. Expecting the world to know everything about them and not caring about others cultures.

I do that quite often - speak to the reader more than the person I quoted - unless I'm casting an insult out. Then it's generally directed at the person I quoted.

Insulting people is not only a bannable offence on ATS, I find it quite telling of a person when they resort to insults over intelligent debate.

Yes. That is considered an aggressive posture. Low center of mass. Elevated voice. Direct eye contact.

Aggressive to whom? Undertrained and overzealous American cops maybe, but to anyone who knows that New Zealand exists it is not considered that.

There are also other circumstances in this particular instance: - the blocking of traffic, the 'targeting' of the opposing team's spectators, and the failure to comply with officers' instructions to cease.

Perhaps, but it could have gone a whole lot different if the cops hadve had an inkling about foreign cultures.

In case you didn't know... The town this happened in is in Utah - a state that is joined in a federal union of states known as the United States of America.

When I go to Korea, I abide by their customs. When I go to the UAE - I abide by theirs. Even the guys who will hoop and holler after coming out of a restaurant, here, will not there. Why? Because it generally does not go over well in foreign countries to be the loud and obnoxious person who obviously 'isn't from around here.'

I'm sorry, did you just suggest that Americans abroad try to fit in and not be loud and obnoxious?? What a laugh that is......

There are hundreds of countries on this planet, and several hundred cultural backgrounds and mannerisms. You could devote your whole life to the cultures of the planet and not even get through the half of them before dying of old age.

Perhaps we could adjust the concept. I highly doubt you're familiar with the culture in Puerto Rico - or how/why it's different from the culture of Mexico or Cuba.

You learn more about the cultures and people you interact with. Most Americans have little cause to learn or care much about New Zealand. They choose to learn about Mexico, Canada, ... Japan (though watching anime and attempting to use it to learn Japanese hardly merits ...) the UK, etc.

Of course - one could spend a good deal of time simply learning about the cultural differences within the U.S. Many populations here have lived in relative isolation from each other. Percentage-wise, few North Eastern folk end up in the mid-west or on the West Coast (or South East peninsula/gulf). Different demographic groups have different cultures and dialects, even within ...

All I read in that last section was "America is great, we don't need to integrate and understand other cultures, we don't even need to leave our own country because we are the bestest most Glorious Almighty country in the world and who cares about the rest....blah blah blah flex flex whinge moan whine.

Many people simply don't realize how big America is until they get to it. Many exchange students flip the hell out over how long it takes to fly from one point in the country to the other. Five hours later - they are still on the damned plane, and still over the U.S.

You do know that Australia is just as big as the US don't you? Yet you don't hear us trying to claim there is no point visiting the world because of the size of our own penis....excuse me I meant country......

reply to post by Kryties

It's one thing to point out that perhaps they were not doing the right thing by moving on, it's quite another to call them a "small and insignificant population of people" that is not worth your time and that just because Americans don't know about the Haka that means nobody else in the world does either. That stinks of arrogance and ignorance and, quite frankly, makes me convinced you are just another ATS troll.

Man... you're easier than a drunk highschool student.

You shouldn't let people lead you on so much.

I will argue, however, that your basis for presuming the "rest of the world" knows about Haka is because -you- know about Haka.

Am I not correct?

The fact is - I appreciate New Zealand's contributions to the engineering field. I, typically, do not follow sports. I will appear at a local team's game to support them - but I don't know much about my own country's sporting culture - let alone another country's.

Go to a sports forum, and you're likely to find far more Americans in-tune with this as a greeting tradition. The rest of us really don't have much reason to immerse ourselves in the culture of New Zealand - and the only reason the sports people would be familiar with it is due to the tendency of NZ to express it before Rugby matches on the field. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't know, either - unless they had gone to NZ or found someone from NZ who desired to make a point of explaining this tradition.

Originally posted by MisterFister103
Did anyone see Family Guy on Sunday??? At the end of the episode, Joe, the paraplegic cop, gave one of the out of town cops a taste of his own medicine. Earlier in the episode, the main guys were subjected to some police brutality, so at the end of the episode Joe shoots the cop in the leg. He goes off about how cops are supposed to be more understanding and compassionate than the average man. They're job is to protect and serve, not to abuse their power.

I thought it was a good message, and made me think of all the ridiculous police brutality threads I see on here.

LOL not surprising, one of the writers on Family Guy was subjected to police brutality recently during the Occupy LA police raid. Thread here.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Thank you for completely proving my point about American ignorance and arrogance. I could not have done a better job.

Ignorance is never any excuse for me or you or any other of us common folk but it's always the number one excuse for those highly trained specialists.

Go figure.

reply to post by Kryties

As I said before, you've never met a Maori or you wouldn't even be thinking that.

Doesn't matter. It's human physiology. It only takes 8 pounds.

But there you go again eh - flexing those American muscles trying to sound like a tough guy. I vomited a little in my mouth.

*yawn* I'm a wiry little fellah. I'm not strong enough to play Juggernaut and pin people to the ground in a display of dominance. If I fight someone - I'm going for knees, elbows, arteries - anything I can break, I'm taking the opportunity. It doesn't take much force at all to do it.

Yours was a loaded question by the way, of course there are no official statistics - havingw said that I do know I'm right though.

And how can you know this?

It's like me presuming much of the world knows about Dia de Los Muertes. It's fairly common knowledge in America, particularly those who spent any time in a Spanish class. I would imagine it's probably not so common in Australia - where you'd have little reason to learn about Mexico.

Or Aztec culture (and how it differed from the May and Inca).

Insulting people is not only a bannable offence on ATS, I find it quite telling of a person when they resort to insults over intelligent debate.

Most of ATS would be banned if the cursory insult was used as grounds.

Of course - your comments about Americans constitute a blanket insult. Whats-his-name was declaring the police to be scum.

Come now, I accept and make fun of my own double-standards and sometimes hypocritical standpoints. How can you laugh at others if you can't first laugh at yourself (or vice-versa)? ... In layman's terms... "why so serious?"

Aggressive to whom? Undertrained and overzealous American cops maybe, but to anyone who knows that New Zealand exists it is not considered that.

Wait... let's find your quote...

"Yep, you have described Americans perfectly. Expecting the world to know everything about them and not caring about others cultures. "

.....Huh....

Perhaps, but it could have gone a whole lot different if the cops hadve had an inkling about foreign cultures.

Or if the high school students stopped to consider that it is generally seen as rude to block exits. I'm not aware of any culture where you greet someone by blocking their means of egress. Their choice of location indicates they were not performing this in the spirit of the tradition and as a greeting.

I would have to say that, were I a "Kiwi" - I would find the actions of these people to reflect poorly upon the tradition.

I'm sorry, did you just suggest that Americans abroad try to fit in and not be loud and obnoxious?? What a laugh that is......

When you go to countries that will lock you up until Congress gets around to getting you back.... yeah.

Of course - in Australia, you all need to learn how to treat your women. I swear... It does little to deflate my ego when a Wiccan woman thinks I'm a god for treating her with the basic respect most guys show women, here in the U.S.

We can tit-for-tat all day.

It's all a game to me.

All I read in that last section was "America is great, we don't need to integrate and understand other cultures, we don't even need to leave our own country because we are the bestest most Glorious Almighty country in the world and who cares about the rest....blah blah blah flex flex whinge moan whine.

Methinks you need to go back to English 101. I don't think you got it the first time around.

You do know that Australia is just as big as the US don't you? Yet you don't hear us trying to claim there is no point visiting the world because of the size of our own penis....excuse me I meant country......

Where... are you getting this from?

First - Australia is not as large as the U.S. by a long shot. Certainly not in terms of inhabited land area, or in population.

Notwithstanding... Where did you get, from my comment, that I was implying there was no point to visiting or learning about other parts of the world?

My point was that just learning about America (you know... the country we live in and will do most of our interactions with... kind of an important thing to learn about, generally) is a large topic to study. However, many people in America do study other cultures. The Asian cultures are fairly popular right now because A) they are cute, B) prejudices following the second World War are pretty well depleted, C) Anime is taking over and D) S&T as well as Industry are all focused on those areas.

Would you care to tell me about the Philippines?

It's right in your neck of the world.

You tend to focus on things that have meaning to you. I have friends from the Philippines - I've learned some about them; the same with Japan, Australia, Korea, etc.

Not all American are as ignorant as what is being exposed here.

I am not a fan of spectator sports , I do not follow Rugby, but I am well aware of the NZ Black Haka, how could you not be, it is just about the coolest pre game show on the planet.

This incident does speak volumes about the “dumbing down” of Americans.

Anyone who had a clue would recognize the squat, the arms position, and the first word of the chant immediately.

So, if you find yourself in the position of never being exposed to Haka, this should be a clue that you are a victim of the “dumbing down” of America and it should challenge you to widen your horizons and improve your education.

Originally posted by brokedown
Not all American are as ignorant as what is being exposed here.

I do realise this, hell I had an American roommate for two years. It's a pity though that those who ARE ignorant seem to have the loudest voices, drowning out the rest of you.

reply to post by brokedown

Anyone who had a clue would recognize the squat, the arms position, and the first word of the chant immediately.

Is it customary in their native lands to do this while blocking the exits to sports complexes?

Just curious. I'm quite certain their own law enforcement would frown upon it, and failure to disperse would be met with a similar response.

So, if you find yourself in the position of never being exposed to Haka, this should be a clue that you are a victim of the “dumbing down” of America and it should challenge you to widen your horizons and improve your education.

Son... do you have any idea how much stuff there is to learn?

Would you care to discuss Quantum Mechanics with me?

Or debate the intricacies of Hebrew language as it pertains to scriptures that remain influential in the global social and political scene?

How about industrial trends?

The possibilities of Genetic Engineering and how it will influence the future of chemical and structural industries?

.... The list goes on - I'm, obviously, wearing my engineer hat today.

Human history is 10,000 years or more and expanding in real-time. Further complicating the matter is an ever-increasing number of people and their accompanying cultures and sub-cultures (plus studying extinct ones). As if that's not enough - super-cultures exist among them all, largely enabled by the internet (icanhazcheesburger is not any single nation or culture's creation - it's its own deal... not to be confused with 4chan and other communities that are super-cultural in nature).

By contrast... changes to the physiological limitations of the human brain have been far slower... only somewhat appreciable over the past 1,000 years - depending upon what data you look at and how you rate significance.

.... There's some cultural things you're just not going to know about until you have a "WTF?" moment.

reply to post by Aim64C


We get you mate, we get you. You have made your point. America rules, stuff other cultures and here have an arm flex.....look at those finely crafted American muscles.....

The cops should be arrested for assault, then fired the chief should be fired for hiring them.
There is NO WAY he didn't know those officers were ignorant.
Ignorance+gun+badge= danger to public saftey.

When citizens wake up and start holding people responsible for their actions this madness will cease.
Stop making excuses for ignorance.
No crime, no reason for action, ......and at a High School Fooitball game?
Dear god what idiots.

Originally posted by Kryties
Americans don't feel the need to know about the rest of the world.

I agree with most of what you posted up until this. Now I think you fall into the same catagory as the ignorant cops.

reply to post by Kryties


Give it up mate,your talkin to a zealot,you will never change the mind of a zealot.
They use their education to build an argument but dont have the intelligence to see that they have allready lost said argument.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Your fellow masons should be ashamed at the provincialness of your thinking, #er. What's your #ing deal?

The next time an American says how small and insignificant New Zealand is, better think again.....in times to come both New Zealand and Australia will be feeding you all.....hence the USA are so damn desperate for NZ and Australia to push through the new Food Bill of the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement.

And you know what the Kiwis are saying about it? I'll give you a hint......it's 2 words, a 4 letter word and a 3 letter word starting with F and Y.

Here's a (Kiwi born) cop in Queenland Australia joining in a flash mob Haka just before the RWC 2011:

youtu.be...

and this for all the Kiwis on this thread:

youtu.be...

Hell I'm Canadian and I know what the hell the haka dance is.

How come New Zealand cops didn't know? I mean come on.

Fire all these ignorant cops...