Scientific Evidence of Survival of Consciousness After Death

Originally posted by Samuelis

Originally posted by TupacShakur
Clearly there's no getting through to you guys, but really, just think about it for a second. When people die, they report having strange visions and seeing interesting things. When people die, their brain releases a chemical that causes hallucinations. This isn't rocket science.

In many cases the brain is reported to be completely inactive. For a chemical response to occurr wouldn't there need to be some activity? Absolutly false and closed minded answer.

Yes, and I guess I just have to accept that some people are closed-minded. They don't want to think outside the box. And that's okay. But if they aren't willing to be open to it, or if they disagree with it, I wonder why they keep on arguing on this thread? I suppose they could have said once or twice that they disagree and then the reason why and left the subject to those of us who are interested in it. Oh well.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by angellicview

Originally posted by buni11687
reply to post by angellicview

 

Ive found the subject of NDE's interesting, but have never really gotten in-depth into the subject. I have heard that '___' may be a cause of the visions, but I have one question about that.

If you are dead, then how can you percieve hallucinations? How can the brain remember what happened while you are dead, if it is dead?

You can't. Like the part of the OP that tells about a woman who was reading zero brain waves. Thanks for pointing out that connection.

What!? The brain doesn't stop sending signals for a while after the body dies. You are claiming to present fact but you dont know that??

There are cases, as stated in the OP, of people who were dead for a long time and came back. Also, ones where there was ZERO brain waves on the EEG. Complete clinical death and brain death. It's in the OP.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by angellicview

 

No. At this point it would not be found in a textbook. But someday it will.

Well, until then you have no leg to stand on in making a case for their existence.

The OP says there is scientific evidence. And there is. It doesn't say there is proof.

reply to post by angellicview

There are cases, as stated in the OP, of people who were dead for a long time and came back. Also, ones where there was ZERO brain waves on the EEG. Complete clinical death and brain death. It's in the OP.

How about before his brain died?? No, of course that couldn't be it. Since that would invalidate your argument.

Just cause his brain died "at some point" does not mean that he could not have had it while his brain was alive.

reply to post by angellicview


Very Fine Post! Thats what I like to see...a glimpse into the unknown.
Have a wonderful Holiday Season!

S&F

reply to post by angellicview

The OP says there is scientific evidence. And there is. It doesn't say there is proof.

Show me the scientific evidence. I see a lot of people who claim to have experienced the same thing. In no way is a personal experience scientific evidence.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by angellicview

 

The OP says there is scientific evidence. And there is. It doesn't say there is proof.

Show me the scientific evidence. I see a lot of people who claim to have experienced the same thing. In no way is a personal experience scientific evidence.

Some of the evidence is presented on that very first post that right at the top of page one.

reply to post by angellicview

Some of the evidence is presented on that very first post that right at the top of page one.

That is not scientific evidence. That is a personal experience. You cant even admit the difference between personal and scientific and you expect me to take you seriously?

You guys can argue all you want whether the evidence is scientific or not. But there is evidence.

Many people who report NDEs see and know things that would not otherwise know from the comatose state while they are lying in their hospital beds. This knowledge can be verified independently and would stand up in a court of law.

This shows not only that there is in fact real evidence, but also that many NDEs cannot be dismissed merely as hallucinations.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by angellicview

 

Some of the evidence is presented on that very first post that right at the top of page one.

That is not scientific evidence. That is a personal experience. You cant even admit the difference between personal and scientific and you expect me to take you seriously?

What kind of evidence are you looking for? A video of the afterlife? A picture of the magic fountain?

Scientific evidence has no universally accepted definition but generally refers to evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is generally expected to be empirical and properly documented in accordance with scientific method such as is applicable to the particular field of inquiry. Standards for evidence may vary according to whether the field of inquiry is among the natural sciences or social sciences[citation needed]. Evidence may involve understanding all steps of a process, or one or a few observations, or observation and statistical analysis of many samples without necessarily understanding the mechanism.

Here is the entire list of evidence - some of it is objective, some subjective - that is reported on this one website. You can click the link if you'd like to read more about each piece. I used the same site for the information because they have done a lot of research and put it all together neatly for us. There are many other websites, books, and videos that also add to the information presented here.

(1) People have NDEs while they are brain dead.
(2) Out-of-body perception during NDEs have been verified.
(3) People born blind can see during an NDE.
(4) NDEs demonstrate the return of consciousness from death.
(5) The NDE study by Raymond Moody has been replicated.
(6) Experimental evidence suggests that NDEs are real.
(7) NDEs can be considered to be an objective experience.
(8) NDEs have been validated in scientific studies.
(9) Out-of-body experiences (OBEs) have been validated in scientific studies.
(10) Autoscopy during NDEs have been validated in scientific studies.
(11) A transcendental "sixth sense" of the human mind has been found.
(12) NDEs support the "holonomic" theory of consciousness.
(13) The expansion of consciousness reported in NDEs supports consciousness theories.
(14) The brain's connection to a greater power has been validated by indisputable scientific facts.
(15) The replication of NDEs using hallucinogenic drugs satisfies the scientific method.
(16) NDEs are different from hallucinations.
(17) The replication of NDEs using a variety of triggers satisfies the scientific method.
(18) Apparitions of the deceased have been induced under scientific controls.
(19) People having NDEs have brought back scientific discoveries.
(20) NDEs have advanced the field of medical science.
(21) NDEs have advanced the field of psychology.
(22) NDEs correspond to the "quirky" principles found in quantum physics.
(23) The transcendental nature of human consciousness during NDEs corresponds to principles found in quantum physics.
(24) NDEs have advanced the fields of philosophy and religion.
(25) NDEs have the nature of an archetypal initiatory journey.
(26) People have been clinically dead for several days and report the most profound NDEs.
(27) NDEs have produced visions of the future which later prove to be true.
(28) Groups of dying people can share the same NDE.
(29) Experiencers are convinced the NDE is an afterlife experience.
(30) The NDEs of children are remarkably similar to adult NDEs.
(31) Experiencers of NDEs are profoundly changed in ways that cannot occur from hallucinations and dreams.
(32) NDEs cannot be explained merely by brain chemistry alone.
(33) NDEs have been reported by people since the dawn of recorded history.
(34) The skeptical "dying brain" theory of NDEs has serious flaws.
(35) Skeptical arguments against the NDE "survival theory" are not valid.
(36) The burden of proof has shifted to the skeptics of the survival theory.
(37) Other anomalous phenomena supports the survival theory.
(38) NDEs support the existence of reincarnation.
(39) The scientific evidence supporting reincarnation also supports the survival theory.
(40) Xenoglossy supports reincarnation and the survival theory.
(41) Past-life regression supports reincarnation and the survival theory.
(42) Contact with "the deceased" has occurred under scientific controls.
(43) After-death communications have been reported by credible people.
(44) Dream research supports the NDE and survival theory.
(45) Deathbed visions support the NDE and survival theory.
(46) Remote viewing supports the NDE and survival theory.
(47) The efficacy of prayer has been demonstrated under scientific controls.
(48) The "Scole Experiments" during the 1990s support the NDE and survival theory.
(49) Electronic voice phenomena (EVP) supports the NDE and survival theory.
(50) Prominent atheists have had NDEs which caused them to believe in the afterlife.
(51) Psychometry supports the NDE and survival theory.

Originally posted by Samuelis

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by angellicview

 

Some of the evidence is presented on that very first post that right at the top of page one.

That is not scientific evidence. That is a personal experience. You cant even admit the difference between personal and scientific and you expect me to take you seriously?

What kind of evidence are you looking for? A video of the afterlife? A picture of the magic fountain?

Oh my goodness, thank you! I was really racking my head to think of what MORE evidence I could possibly give this guy? lol.... there's really a LOT of it out there!

reply to post by Samuelis

What kind of evidence are you looking for? A video of the afterlife? A picture of the magic fountain?

Don't mock me. I did not put an unreasonable burden of evidence on you guys. I only ask that the evidence you give is up to par with the things that pass for fact. Personal experiences are universally excluded from being scientific evidence in every instance.

I dont know how you would "prove" NDE's, but the burden of proof rest with you. You are the one making the claim and to convince me YOU have to put forward evidence. Your evidence falls so far below par that it is only "evidence" in the very loosest of terms.

reply to post by angellicview

I was really racking my head to think of what MORE evidence I could possibly give this guy? lol.... there's really a LOT of it out there!

A lot? No, cause if there were it would be considered fact. What dont you get about that?

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by angellicview

 

I was really racking my head to think of what MORE evidence I could possibly give this guy? lol.... there's really a LOT of it out there!

A lot? No, cause if there were it would be considered fact. What dont you get about that?

What I don't get is why you are still here? It's obvious that you don't believe in it. This is not a courtroom and I am not on trial. Move along.

Originally posted by angellicview
Here is the entire list of evidence - some of it is objective, some subjective - that is reported on this one website. You can click the link if you'd like to read more about each piece. I used the same site for the information because they have done a lot of research and put it all together neatly for us. There are many other websites, books, and videos that also add to the information presented here.

(1) People have NDEs while they are brain dead.
(2) Out-of-body perception during NDEs have been verified.
(3) People born blind can see during an NDE.
(4) NDEs demonstrate the return of consciousness from death.
(5) The NDE study by Raymond Moody has been replicated.
(6) Experimental evidence suggests that NDEs are real.
(7) NDEs can be considered to be an objective experience.
(8) NDEs have been validated in scientific studies.
(9) Out-of-body experiences (OBEs) have been validated in scientific studies.
(10) Autoscopy during NDEs have been validated in scientific studies.
(11) A transcendental "sixth sense" of the human mind has been found.
(12) NDEs support the "holonomic" theory of consciousness.
(13) The expansion of consciousness reported in NDEs supports consciousness theories.
(14) The brain's connection to a greater power has been validated by indisputable scientific facts.
(15) The replication of NDEs using hallucinogenic drugs satisfies the scientific method.
(16) NDEs are different from hallucinations.
(17) The replication of NDEs using a variety of triggers satisfies the scientific method.
(18) Apparitions of the deceased have been induced under scientific controls.
(19) People having NDEs have brought back scientific discoveries.
(20) NDEs have advanced the field of medical science.
(21) NDEs have advanced the field of psychology.
(22) NDEs correspond to the "quirky" principles found in quantum physics.
(23) The transcendental nature of human consciousness during NDEs corresponds to principles found in quantum physics.
(24) NDEs have advanced the fields of philosophy and religion.
(25) NDEs have the nature of an archetypal initiatory journey.
(26) People have been clinically dead for several days and report the most profound NDEs.
(27) NDEs have produced visions of the future which later prove to be true.
(28) Groups of dying people can share the same NDE.
(29) Experiencers are convinced the NDE is an afterlife experience.
(30) The NDEs of children are remarkably similar to adult NDEs.
(31) Experiencers of NDEs are profoundly changed in ways that cannot occur from hallucinations and dreams.
(32) NDEs cannot be explained merely by brain chemistry alone.
(33) NDEs have been reported by people since the dawn of recorded history.
(34) The skeptical "dying brain" theory of NDEs has serious flaws.
(35) Skeptical arguments against the NDE "survival theory" are not valid.
(36) The burden of proof has shifted to the skeptics of the survival theory.
(37) Other anomalous phenomena supports the survival theory.
(38) NDEs support the existence of reincarnation.
(39) The scientific evidence supporting reincarnation also supports the survival theory.
(40) Xenoglossy supports reincarnation and the survival theory.
(41) Past-life regression supports reincarnation and the survival theory.
(42) Contact with "the deceased" has occurred under scientific controls.
(43) After-death communications have been reported by credible people.
(44) Dream research supports the NDE and survival theory.
(45) Deathbed visions support the NDE and survival theory.
(46) Remote viewing supports the NDE and survival theory.
(47) The efficacy of prayer has been demonstrated under scientific controls.
(48) The "Scole Experiments" during the 1990s support the NDE and survival theory.
(49) Electronic voice phenomena (EVP) supports the NDE and survival theory.
(50) Prominent atheists have had NDEs which caused them to believe in the afterlife.
(51) Psychometry supports the NDE and survival theory.

lol, a lot of these have been proven false. Aaaaaaand now that I know that your willing to spread lies and overlook contradictions in order to push your agenda I can no longer trust validity of anything you say. With that post, this thread became a literal joke.

I do not participate in such intellectually insulting arguments.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


Good. Glad to hear you are done participating.

I have no agenda. I am not trying to spread lies. Many of these are the same conclusions that I have come to find in my own research.

Goodbye.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


I was only requesting more clarity around what kind of scientific evidence would be satisfactory. There is no possible alternative way to measure an NDE other than a personal account of the event, which supports a scientific theory on the survival of consciousness after death.

The OP is correct in stating this IS scientific, and it IS evidence. End of story.

For those who are interested, there is another site that I love to read. It is the Near Death Experience Research Foundation and there they also have a lot of evidence for the NDE. You can also find thousands of people who have written in with their accounts of their experiences.

For the purpose of evidence explanation, and because we have a couple of cynics in our midst, Jody Long (she and her husband Dr. Jeff Long are the researchers) has written this article. Here are some excerpts:

The most ignored facts that NDE cynics gloss over are those that occur in the out-of-body phase of the NDE. There is no way possible that brain chemistry can be argued when a person is verifiably DEAD, yet can tell everyone later what was said or happening down the hall, away from sight and earshot, during the time of resuscitation efforts. Rather than try to incorporate this unexplainable information into a new theory, these facts are merely ignored. In actuality a separation of consciousness from the body is a much more plausible explanation of facts to account for what is being reported by NDErs.

Additional indicators of reliability of anecdotal evidence is 1) the number of eyewitnesses, 2) the consistency of the observations and claims, 3) the credibility of the witnesses, 4) the clarity of and proximity of the observations, 5) the state of mind of the witnesses, and 6) what does the experiencer or the cynic stand to gain from the experience.[17] While a single NDE may not be proof of the phenomena itself, there are hundreds of NDE accounts. Many times they share certain observations and claims. Moreover, it might be easy to discount one or several people as being mentally unstable, but it becomes less believable when a person wants to claim that all of these people are guilty of false memories or other memory disorders. Experiencers have a wide cross-section of people to poll from. They come from all walks of life, ages, ethnic backgrounds, socio-economic status, and countries. There is no discounting the reliability of that much evidence as the result of being mistaken, lying, false memories, or hallucinations. Few NDErs have anything to gain by telling their story.

Here is a link to a Dr. Oz show all about NDE's! It is really good. It's called Dr. Oz Investigates: Near Death Experiences - are they real?