Great Minds Think Alike - Lending With Interest

I firmly believe lending money at interest is a viscous cycle. It works in the short term, but is not sustainable. For the borrower it is the mentality of "give me today what I will work for tomorrow" and for the lender the mentality is making money from nothing. This is the mentality which the US has relied on, it is what caused the foreclosure crisis and the bail outs. I also have found out it is a dumb and immoral practice according to Christianity, Islam, Plato, and Aristotle. Here are my findings, some of the quotes are not directly related but you get my point.

Christianity/Judaism:

“Who does not put out his money at interest and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved.” Psalm 15:5

“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest.” Deuteronomy 23:19-20

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit.” Leviticus 25:35-37

Islam:

“they say: "Trade is like usury," but Allah(God) hath permitted trade and forbidden usury.” The Qur'an Sura 2:275

"Those that live in usury shall rise up before God like men whom Satan has demented by his touch; for they claim that trading is no different from usury." The Cow 2:275] (alternate translation of the above)

"Let those who hoard the wealth which God has bestowed on them out of His bounty never think it good for them: it is nothing but evil." The Imrans 3:181

Plato:

"There must be no lending at interest because it will be quite in order for the borrower to refuse absolutely to return both interest and principal."

"Money must not be deposited with anybody whom one does not trust."

Aristotle:

"The trade of the petty usurer is hated with most reason: it makes a profit from currency itself, instead of making it from the process which currency was meant to serve"

" . . . [T]hose who follow illiberal occupations, like . . . moneylenders who make small loans at a high rate of interest; for all these receive more than is right, and not from the right source. Their common characteristic is obviously their sordid avarice . . . "

BTW: Usury = lending money with interest.

I am sure most will argue it is necessary. But I personally think it is only necessary because we live in a society created by these practices, most can't get ahead without doing it. It is a vicious cycle which self perpetuates...

If no interest then tell me good sir ...


what is the interest of a person lending you money ? if he makes nothing back from it ?

charity ? good will?

I belive interest should be applicable for gradification of giving a loan . But the rates much much much lower then what we see today.

Because of inflation, you need to earn interest or else when you get paid back your purchasing power will have decreased. What's the point in lending for a negative return? Eliminate inflation and you can eliminate much of the interest.

The real problem is that money is created with interest already attached.

Originally posted by yourboycal2
If no interest then tell me good sir ...


what is the interest of a person lending you money ? if he makes nothing back from it ?

charity ? good will?

I belive interest should be applicable for gradification of giving a loan . But the rates much much much lower then what we see today.

edit on 28-11-2011 by yourboycal2 because: (no reason given)

Charity and good will would be the causes in a perfect world.

I am not saying it should be illegal, free will will be free. But I think it is important to recognize these core roots of our problems. The only thing we can change is our personal behavior, and that alone spreads to others.

I am fortunate enough to have parents that pay for my college. I am also fortunate enough to be self employed with a fairly successful online businesses, I don't need to take out money as a loan to buy a car and I will have the money for for rent when I am out of my dorm. By the time I need to settle down, I imagine I should have enough money for a small house. If I wanted to get greedy I could take out a loan and get a bigger house right off the bat, but I don't intend on doing that (but honestly I don't know what I'll be like or what I'll being doing that far in the future) because although I grew up in a big house, honestly it's really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, most my best friends are from lower income neighborhoods and I think those places have more personality than the stuck up area my parents live it.

If I didn't have parents to pay for my college, and if I didn't have my online buisness, than I would have probably gotten a job and gone to community college which is extremely affordable. I wouldn't gotten as good of a job as someone who went to a better college, but at least I wouldn't be in debt for the next ten years. The price of non-community now days colleges makes no sense at all, total joke...

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Because of inflation, you need to earn interest or else when you get paid back your purchasing power will have decreased. What's the point in lending for a negative return? Eliminate inflation and you can eliminate much of the interest.

The real problem is that money is created with interest already attached.

Yes, and that money creation process with interest attached is just macro scale reflection of what goes on in local economies with banks lending with interest..

Doesn't work on either scale imo, but I do agree with you that the money creation with interest may be the biggest problem of them all.

reply to post by yourboycal2


The interest could be the first fruits of your increase PAID FORWARD, with the principal returned in full.

It would make for a better world, but because it might have a "Godly" element to it, we can't have that now as it's vital we keep hating..

I apologize - I was hating, I'll admit it, I hate your avatar and your atheism. Please forgive me. Serious.

reply to post by CREAM

Interest is, in some small way at least, the same as economic growth. It's a fallacy and unsustainable, just like the large corps that want more and more profits each quarter for their "investors". People also get (sometimes) hooked on the idea of buying their own homes as an "investment", meaning that they expect the same old tired collection of bricks and cement to increase in value in the coming years instead of seeing it for what it is, a necessary shelter for humans to live in.

"The Jews" (I'm not trying to turn this into an anti Jew discussion) were basically kicked out of England back in the ...hmm forget which century exactly but basically medieval times. Why? Usury. Several centuries later, I would suppose the rulers saw it as a good way of controlling just about everything, and the banking system as we know it today was welcomed back with open arms.

This is why today the banks are probably the most powerful institutions around. And it sucks! Tear down the wall!

Great post OP! I got to the party a little late as usual but then you'll usually find me in the kitchen at parties, if I'm there at all...

reply to post by CREAM


Money/debt was invented to keep you a slave.
Watch this documentary that shows the damage banks lending money does to you:
Money as debt:
youtu.be...