God is the Devil????

Hi Esther:

Thanks for your comments:

Actually, the Hebrew Tri-literal root (M-L-CH and M-L-K are actually quite separate in later Hebew, but one could argue for a prior cognate, in the sense of a KING being the "messsenger" of the gods (cf: Numbers: I shall send my ANGEL to you and he shall guide you in all your ways..." i.e. the King as YHWH's human representative here on earth, so you do kind of have a point here)...


For ease and clarity of discussion, I would urge that all posters on these threads PLEASE use YHWH/Yahweh (or when appropriate El or Elohim) to represent the local clan god of Israel as spoken of in the post Exilic Hebrew "bible" rather than GOD however, since "god" can refer to any one of thousands of deities, many of which are assumed to have created all the universes.

To say GOD always refers to Yahweh the clan god of the Jews, is a little like saying "PRESIDENT of the US" and always referring ONLY to James Buchanan, forgetting that the word President is a title not a name...

Which 'God' is being discussed here?

The omni~everything God that would have to exist thru-out the Universe, or the physical God that walked in the garden and had to ask questions?

Is, or does God=Lord God? . . .hmmm, I don't think so . . .

God is God ... You are trying to explain him ??? LoL .. He made you ... from the dust of the earth. If you can explain him and comprehend the Alpha and Omega teh beggining and the end, then I am very scared of you. I don't wanna be able to understand my Onimptent God, who knows everything. I mean if you could understand god that makes you pretty smart and I do not consider myself to be even close to his intellect.

Originally posted by bet555
God is God ... You are trying to explain him ??? LoL .. He made you ... from the dust of the earth. If you can explain him and comprehend the Alpha and Omega teh beggining and the end, then I am very scared of you. I don't wanna be able to understand my Onimptent God, who knows everything. I mean if you could understand god that makes you pretty smart and I do not consider myself to be even close to his intellect.

it is in our nature to try to understand and comprehend all things ya know. despite the complexities, we always seem to find a way to do it, right or wrong. if you dont wanna try to understand this god, how will you ever get close to it?? it would be like denying its relationship to you, in you, do you see this? dfh out.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Devil as in Satan?

Well if you want to go by the Bible, God made everything, so therefore he made the Devil and they are not the same.

However if you look at it from a differing philosophy, God and the Devil are the same, just as in Ying and Yang, two polar sides of the same thing. The cosmic balance of good and evil.

I would like to give Kudos, where Kudos is due.

Esther and Amodeus, fantastic insights into the Bible.

I have not gotten a chance to delve into the hypocracy at such depths, but that is some fantastic work you both did.

Well Done,

-ADHDsux4me

There is sumtin' wrong with this God is the Devil theory.

1. . . God is equated as good, eh?
2. . . Devil is equated as evil, eh?
3. . . Lucifer is equated as the devil, eh?
4. . . God is equated as the creator, eh?

Either God created godself in a physical form and cast godself out (Lucifer being an angel) . . . or there is a different God and different devil.

Was Lucifer always the devil or equated as evil? No!

Can the omni~everything God cast himself out of himself? No!

I have a lil different theory about this whole God thing.

God=Evrything, good, evil, omnipresent, omnipotent, etc.

LORD God= Physical entity, higer being, celestial, etc.

Devil/Satan/Lucifer= Physical entity, higher being, celestial, of the LORD God, but cast out due to superiority complex.

I'm not a religious or a spiritual man, by nature...

But I did study world religions for quite a time.

Logically, all we can deduce from the God/Satan relationship is that: God created everything. Therefore, God created Satan. Satan is a creation of God.

With that said, you and I are also allegedly created by God, but are you and I God? No? Yes? Maybe? Are we a part of each other? Again, it depends on who you talk to. If you talked to a religious person, definitely no. But if you spoke to some aging hippie liberal deusche, definitely maybe.

Basically what it comes down to in this world is see what you want, hear what you want, believe what you want. Go ahead. It's allowed. Just don't complain when you get busted at the gates and face spending eternity in total nothingness.

I'm an athiest, so either way I'm guaranteed a spot in the Never.

If god is the alpha and the omega, that would pretty much answer the question wouldn't it?

I reckon the devil's part of God. If anyone's read that Neal Donald Walsch "Conversations with God" I think he more or less says that there.

The point he tries to make is that to know what good is, you have to experience bad. Otherwise the former has no meaning. You wouldn't understand the full meaning of love if you didn't have hate or fear. And the best analogy he makes about our inner strength is when he assimilates us to candles. He says that we're always shining but in the day (when things are good for us) you can't really see our light. In the night though (when things are dark and we think God has forsaken us) that's when the light is visible - and that's when you see your real strength for what it is...

So basically, if it takes bad to conceptualise what's good...then we need the devil...you might say. So I reckon the devil is part of God. If you believe in God. I don't know what's going on up there - but I think the negative force is part of the universal mind - it's not like Sylvester the cat coming from outside to destroy our fun.

Originally posted by deafence#

Originally posted by bet555
God is God ... You are trying to explain him ??? LoL .. He made you ... from the dust of the earth. If you can explain him and comprehend the Alpha and Omega teh beggining and the end, then I am very scared of you. I don't wanna be able to understand my Onimptent God, who knows everything. I mean if you could understand god that makes you pretty smart and I do not consider myself to be even close to his intellect.

it is in our nature to try to understand and comprehend all things ya know. despite the complexities, we always seem to find a way to do it, right or wrong. if you dont wanna try to understand this god, how will you ever get close to it?? it would be like denying its relationship to you, in you, do you see this? dfh out.

Well bet555 and deafence# I must say I agree with you both.

There is a HUGE difference between blind faith and enduring faith. Enduring faith means that you can question and learn, and still take your religion, with all its complexities and inexplicable facts. Blind faith is simply taking everything your preacher or the bible gives you at face value. THis leads to narrow minded and judgemental people.GOD GAVE US A BRAIN AND A CONSCIENCE FOR A REASON PEOPLE!!!

On the other hand we cant simply explain everything away. Ie is yaweh evil or good. its called faith for a reason, because it requires belief in something you can feel and experience but are never 100% sure of. Do you think you would go about doing many of the things you do on a day to day basis if you knew with absolute certainty that God disapproved of it? To a certain extent, we have to figure out life, good, and evil for ourselves.

I am a devout Christian, but I have to say, if angels are supposed not to have free will, then how did Satan suddenly aquire it and fall from grace? It lends some fact to the"God is both good and evil theory"

Originally posted by amike555
Now, like madhatter said "which version of this book that your refering to?" I did not claim that I wrote any book, it might be fun one day, but that day has not come. I guess you are implying that I am a stoner?? Well sorry but you are way off (nice stereotyping/Judging though), I have studied many different religions and have studied the "Epic of Gilgamesh", the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the "Good Book." You are right that the Truth resides in the "Bible," but it also resides in all religious writings, you just have to find what truth is to you. If you want to take the "Bible" at face value that is your prerogative, but remember that Jesus spoke in parables so this could mean that Christians have got it all wrong.

Fact: the story of Noah�s ark did not originally come from the ones who wrote the "Bible." This story pre-dates the "Bible" by about 1000 years, and comes from Mesopotamia, the city of Uruk. The version in the "Bible" was also a pious exaggeration of the real story (it exaggerates the size of the ark, the animals and people that were brought, on board, and the area that the flood covered, granted it was quite a large area). If you want proof, click here and go to Tablet XI, the whole story is there.

So what am I saying? Well things are not always cut and dry. God created evil and can take it away, BUT God would also have to take away good, seeing how everything has to have an opposite.

P.S. How very Christian of you, being so judgmental, lest ye remember "Judge not let ye be judged." This is something very few Christians fallow, WWJD.


[edit on 6-9-2004 by amike555]

It funny how all of theses zelots is here and attack people. Nice way of pointing it out amike555.

Quote: "I've always believe a true Christian is one who believed in self-knowledge, i.e., *becoming Christ themselves, reaching for the Christ within*. Not someone who is so busy condemning themselves and others".

Yes - You are 100% Correct - I wish that there were more of these type of Christians in the World.

Thomas Crowne - you are a Christian correct? What do you think happens when you Partake of the "Body of Christ" in Mass! Bingo you got it Genius!
It is what the REAL Christian Religion is based on!