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God is the Devil????

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posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 01:31 PM
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OK OK, I know I'm going to get some interesting comments on this one. But I would like everyones input on this. I've been told that the Devil can quote scriptures when it will serve his purpose. So it make me wonder, with the way society is so "full of sin", that the god we worship now is actually the devil?

I've always believe a true christian is one who believed in self-knowledge, i.e., becomming Christ themselves, reaching for the Christ within. Not someone who is so busy condemning themselves and others, preaching at people, or worse, still killing for Christ.

Anyway, Just a thought...




posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 03:20 AM
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How about God is the Devil, because the Devil is part of God?

Even if you are talking about the most evil force in the world, this would be God, as God is perfect and created everything, light and dark, then no matter how you look at it God is evil and good at the same time. It (God) is both the alpha and omega, It is male and female, yin and yang, It is positive and negative. Therefore It (God) is the Devil, It is also the bringer of life and taker of death.

caveman2u- "Not someone who is so busy condemning themselves and others, preaching at people, or worse, still killing for Christ."

How about, Christ/Jesus is the Devils work. Paul being the spouter of lies that he was, could have been the false witness, and the New Testament could have been totally construed the wrong way and Jesus could have just been a teacher of sorts, "the Righteous one." For more info look up the Qumran Community/ Dead Sea Scrolls, you will see there was a Saul / Paul the spouter that visited the Community and that there was a "Righteous one" that lived there for quite some time.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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Even if 'HE' existed (which I dissagree with, we are just a lucky arrangement of atoms and cells from evolution) I would think that we are just part of an experiment. Who the hell allows people to kill, maim and rape each other and does NOTHING about it? If he is real, why not contact us directly, and not via stupid 'weeping statues', instead via the UN or something and PROVE who he is with his magic skills.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 04:05 AM
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I knew guys in the Army who enjoyed sitting around, smoking hash and amusing themselves with intellectual insight. To those of us who were not stoned, they didn't sound very bright.

You want the truth about "God" and "Satan"? Read the Bible. Both God and Satan are clearly defined and explained in that book.

Caveman, I can tell you as a Christian, one cannot become Christ. One cannot become the only begotten Son of God, one cannot save one's self. What you've said holds no truth in context with the religion to which you refer.

Amike, there is no good reason to even respond to your nonsense. Again, the Book defines both entities to which Caveman referred, and you are well off base on both. As we learn of both God and Satan in the Bible and not in "Mike's Book", I feel confident that the truth resides in the Book and not your wispy, smokey thoughts.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 04:43 AM
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it brings up a puzzling bible passage though....remember when christ got upset and said,

"can satan cast out satan? a house divided cannot stand...if satan casts out satan then he must have dissension in his ranks...how then can his dominion last?"

i always found that passage to be unsettling- as if jesus were admitting that the devil had a better track record when it came to troop loyalty. 100 percent VS. god's 66 percent.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 05:34 AM
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I feel confident that the truth resides in the Book and not your wispy, smokey thoughts.


I'm just wondering which version of this book that your refering to?



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 06:26 AM
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Maybe god has multiple personalites?

I've always thought God and Satan had a lot in common.

Both want your soul.
Both are kind of dictatorially oriented.
In Job they seem to have a pretty amicable relationship.

Always seemed like the same guy in a different costume.

anyway this is as silly as religions are.
They are mostly based on the idea that you should start living your life after you die. How dumb can you get.


life is short, live it while you have it.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 05:40 PM
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Now, like madhatter said "which version of this book that your refering to?" I did not claim that I wrote any book, it might be fun one day, but that day has not come. I guess you are implying that I am a stoner?? Well sorry but you are way off (nice stereotyping/Judging though), I have studied many different religions and have studied the "Epic of Gilgamesh", the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the "Good Book." You are right that the Truth resides in the "Bible," but it also resides in all religious writings, you just have to find what truth is to you. If you want to take the "Bible" at face value that is your prerogative, but remember that Jesus spoke in parables so this could mean that Christians have got it all wrong.

Fact: the story of Noahs ark did not originally come from the ones who wrote the "Bible." This story pre-dates the "Bible" by about 1000 years, and comes from Mesopotamia, the city of Uruk. The version in the "Bible" was also a pious exaggeration of the real story (it exaggerates the size of the ark, the animals and people that were brought, on board, and the area that the flood covered, granted it was quite a large area). If you want proof, click here and go to Tablet XI, the whole story is there.

So what am I saying? Well things are not always cut and dry. God created evil and can take it away, BUT God would also have to take away good, seeing how everything has to have an opposite.

P.S. How very Christian of you, being so judgmental, lest ye remember "Judge not let ye be judged." This is something very few Christians fallow, WWJD.


[edit on 6-9-2004 by amike555]



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 01:56 AM
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Here is a thought... maybe God created Satan, cuz he wanted to test freewill in Heaven... and maybe one thing God can't tell is what a being is going to choose to do, as the person doesn't even know.. maybe. So, since Satan rebelled against God, then God decided that he was going to start the whole "free will" campaign on Earth... And those who choose to live by God can enter heaven... well we were obviously not living by God, as we were sinning, so then God said alright, those who are "decent" enough may enter heaven but i have to do this by sacraficing myself, because i once gave the world to man, and they gave it to satan. So i must take it back in order to control whom i want to enter heaven. It worked, then God allowed us decent humans to enter heaven and viola present day!



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 02:14 AM
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Interesting. Considering how much the Bible has been altered, is it not inconceivable that the Devil has used that for his own ends.

Theoretically wouldnt it be possible that certain passages have been omitted or included because they expand the evil cause?



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 05:00 AM
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The Bible is the word of God and therefore it can not be altered or changed, nothing can be added or taken away.

Ya RIGHT and I am the reincarnation of Krishna.


Ryan- If God has the power to create, then God also has the power to take away. The way you speak of God is almost as though God is not perfect and has erred in some way...? Is not God infaluable??

Has anyone read the Book of Enoch?

I myself am not "christian" but I don't even think that GOD would err in this way, unless it was in It's nature to do so.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 04:53 PM
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This my post in another thread here, The God is an evil God. Your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

-ADHDsux4me



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 01:16 AM
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just because God can give and God can take away doesn't mean God doesn't allow you too choose your own destiny... What if he has the power to tell what you are going to do but CHOOSES to turn his back and be surprised... Why is he infallable if he is able to create INDIVIDUALS who think and act on their own, but come to life by God's doing? Just because he created life doesn't mean we don't control it on Earth, then by taking spectacular notes he judges us based upon what we have done wrong in our life. Or maybe since we are a part of him he himself doesn't know what he is going to do next, thus giving us freewill. I don't know, im really not in the position to explain this.



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 01:04 AM
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Ezekial, I like the way you think and speak.

That said, let's hypothesize, boys and girls.
1. Satan is powerful enough to rival with God. Hell, even Satan and his minions of fallen angels, of demigods and demons, of Ballthemel, and all the other crap the Gnostics thought up. If you are a Christian and you believe this, you are simply going to Hell... with a capital H, because not only do you believe your God to be rivaled, and therefore not omnipotent, but you also reserve a certain, if not fearful, respect and reverance of the Devil, and thus are an idolator and a polytheist. Have fun with that.
2. If there is a devil, Satan if you like, then he MUST have been created by God. Yes, because God the omnipotent created all things. If God desired for humans to live in a good world, he would rid it of all evil. Instead, he allows us freedom (which I thank him for), but also allows evil to exist and flourish. That's pretty messed up. We are allowed to disobey God, to perpetrate evil, and to what end? God creates us in his image, and desires us to be good and obey him, yet does NOTHING to stop an evil force from turning us against his word. In that case, what a sadistic bastard. That's like one adult telling a child not to play with something, having another adult convince the child otherwise, and throwing the kid on the street. If you want to believe that your God is like that, have a ball. While we're on it, let's look at poor old Job from the bible, who got screwed over cause the devil bet God that he wouldn't destroy this good man's life. And God proceeded to wipe out is family, take his fortune, and set up him with ailments. And his explanation to poor Job, who was, according to your scripture, a good and righteous man? Who are you to question me? Did you create the heavens and the earth? Were you there when I made everything? No, so shut up and like it. Yeah, that's nice
3. Here is my belief. God is everything. He simply is. "I am he who is called 'I AM'" to quote. He is life and good and death and evil, and irrevocably part of this world, unquestionable and untenable. His will can never be known, for in his infinite wisdom and power, he may lead us astray at a whim, and we will be none the wiser. Anyone who presumes to know God's will believes that he is as wise as God, and therefore, nearly a God himself. Screw religious miracles and revalations. Most of the people who claimed to have seen God or talked to him were mentally troubled. And as for how we were created? Yeah, God may or may not have made this world, and if He did, well, then he was responsible for the beginning of evolution, and here we are today. Toodles


d1k

posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 01:21 AM
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I wouldn't put 100% faith in some books that were written 100 years after the event it's writing about. I'm sure you have all heard this, but put 20 people in line, tell the 1st person a story then have the 20th person tell you it. It will be nothing like the story that was told to the 1st.

I know there is a god, or a creator, or what ever you want to call him but he's so beyond what we could comprehend I doubt any book could describe him.

I guess my point is, find god in yourself, or around you. If he can create everything around us then I'm sure he's here with us, we just don't know it.



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 04:35 AM
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For those of us that have experienced the Holy spirit, there is really no doubt at all. God loves, and protects and keeps his promises.

For those still on the outside wondering all about this. Been there done that. But it is faith, not proof you need.

Prove to a blind man the sky is blue, even try to explain what "blue" is. It simply cannot be done.

The devil is real and exists. The power to deceive is not real power. It is only powerful if you let it take over your life, but the joke will finally be on you if you allow that.

The devil and God are complete opposites, like heat and cold, light and darkness. It will not happen in a day, or a month, or a year, but try to seek the truth behind God and spirituality.

Look to all the World's great religions, you will find something that suits you. Find inner peace and security, it is there for all that seek it.

Avoid satanism, the occult, witchcraft (craft for the girls) and freemasonry (craft for the boys). While it certainly works, it will lead you in exactly the wrong direction away from God. You are being deceived and the devils promise is no promise.



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 04:58 AM
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It's strange how the story of Christ was told about 7 diffrent times by 7 diffrent religions all predating Christanity.



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 05:47 AM
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here's my input. first, the devil tried to corrupt jesus, and make him fail, ie; not believe he was capable and that he was just a man. the devil failed at this, so naturally he'd be pissed off. as revenge, why not corrupt the only piece of info that connects jesus's followers to him... the bible. this could explain any corrupted or changed text, over time, by certain figures throughout history. any thoughts? i'll answer what some might say for them: "but the word of god is infallible". to this i say, maybe so, through the direct mouth of jesus and maybe his disciples or anyone else in communication, but not through possible corrupted clergy, ordinary men throughout history who've had access and control over the bible for the past two millenia. dfh out.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by deafence#]



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 07:56 AM
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Groupies:

The idea of Shatain (Gk: Satanas) is very late to Judaeism, and did not exist until after the Babylonian Exile: before that time YHWH (or any of a number of other gods worshipped in Palestine before BC 480, e.g. El, all the local Baals, Molech, Dagon, Chemosh etc.) was seen to be the author of BOTH good AND evil (cf: proto-Isaiah c. 715 BC: I am YHWH I create the good, I create the Evil) or the Book of Amos (BC 720: Will Evil befall a town, and YHWH have not done it?) etc. Notice pre-Exilic writings both of these: and YHWH is responsible for BOTH good AND evil at this stage in their theological development...

Try to remember that pre-Exilic Israelitish clans had no concept of "Satan" as an equal of YHWH (Yahweh) until about 480BC, i.e. when the condept of an anti-god (dualist thought) was imported from Persian-Zoroastrian soldiers and priests into Israel during the 200 year "Persian Period"---yes, Iran (Persia) militarilly and physically controlled Israel for 200 Years (from about 531BC to 331 BC) when the Syran Greeks conquored Palestine) and brought their Dualism with them (i.e. Light v. Dark, Death v. Life, Satan ('enemy" a term which used to apply to the Philistines, who were called Shatanim) v. YHWH, as well as the introduction of the concept of angels and daemons and the Resurrection of the Dead.

These post-Exilic (after 480BC) ideas all became later Rabinnic-Judaic "Pharasiac" concepts adopted by R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jeezuzzz" to the Americans) : notice the curious Midrashic introduction of Zoroastrian Persian Magoi ("wise men") in the Gospel Matthew's birth narrative to fulfll the verse "the Kings of the East shall bring gifts" etc.)

Notice the rise of Satan paralleled the rise of the Pharasaic movement: (Persia = Pharisee = cf: the roots of the words are both: P- R- S)...

If you look at the ancient Elamite-accented "Hebrew" poem of the book of Job (written about 700-600 BC, and based on earlier mesopotamian and Egyptian models, such as the Dialogue of the Man Weary with his Soul), you will notice the poem proper of Job (i.e. the early core of the book) is flanked by two PROSE sections written in late proto-Mishnaic Hebrew (c. 250 BC), i.e chapters 1 and 2 and the last paragraph. These additions bring in the idea of SATAN which does not occur in the Poem itself. Neither does the word YHWH appear: the clan god of the Poem is Eloah throughout, the singular of Elohim, and is gramatically feminine---a rare oddity in the whole of Hebrew scriptures.

The idea of mediatory "Angels" (Heb. "malachim" = messengers) taking the place of YHWH's direct control of the world in the narratives in the socalled Torah is also late, and injected into earlier versions of the text: these inclusions show post-exilic re-writers adapted earlier writings to fit the new post-Persian period theologies in Israel dueing BC 530 to BC 331 (see the Graf-Wellhausen J, E, P D + redactor theories outlined for the lay reader in Richard Eliot Friedman's book, WHO WROTE THE BIBLE?)

So understand that thea actual texts of virtually all the competing versions of the " Hebrew bible" (i.e. the Masoretic, the vorlage to the LXX, the Dead Sea Scroll corpus versions, the targums, the Samaritan Pentateuch and the Pe#ta) all show clear evidence of post-exilic rewrites with heavy Persian-Zoroastrian influence which likewise influenced the Dead Sea Scroll Community (including "R. Yohanan bar Zechariah", aka John the Baptist who travelled in their circles) and his own disciple, R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean (aka "Jeeezuzz")...



posted on Sep, 13 2004 @ 09:25 AM
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[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]



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