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Obamanomics Doomed to FAILURE! Socialism Simply Does Not WORK

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posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Mister_Bit
 


" When your "insert employer name here" realises he can make more of a profit by outsourcing to another country and turfing you to the road, tell me again about the ignorant masses. "

The Employer is a " Doer " , and as a " Doer " , he is Intitled to a Profit if he Invests Capital into any Business . The Employee is Not Intitled to Anything other than a Agreed Wage for the Fruits of his Labor that he gives in Exchange to a Employer .............Simple Concept , Right ? .........Capitalism is Not Perfect , but it does give the " Non Doer " an Option to Substain Himself other than Living off the Land he happens to Occupy......Outsourcing Jobs is another Concept that is Usually effected by the Demand for Labor , Labors Demands , and Goverment Involvment (Regulation and Taxes) in effecting the " Bottom Line " of Any Business Operation ...........

Seems you misunderstand the point.... When your beloved company goes abroad to make himself money, YOU... yes YOU become one of the non-doer, jobless, ignorant masses that seems to be a cancer on your beloved capitalism. Is that your fault? According to you it is. You'd be a non-doer, a waster.

Easy to judge others from a superior stand point.




posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by Mister_Bit
 


If I was an Employee of that Ficticious Company , maybe I might consider lessening my Wage Demands in order for the Company to Possiblly Keep me Employed here in my Home Town ? .Hmm.....



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Mister_Bit
 


If you happened to be a Social Darwinist , you might Understand where I am taking this ..........



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Mister_Bit
 


If I was an Employee of that Ficticious Company , maybe I might consider lessening my Wage Demands in order for the Company to Possiblly Keep me Employed here in my Home Town ? .Hmm.....
HAHAHA!
Seriously....


No..seriously?


....and if they still decide to go, YOU are that scum, YOU are that vile, mindless, ignorant mass, the cancer on society.
Do you seriously believe people in poverty, in a state of stasis do so because they want to or enjoy it??
They are there from the greed of capitalism. No, capitalism is not perfect, neither is socialism or any ISM when abused.
At least with socialism people are treated with a minimal amount of compassion and not just as a resouce to be exploited.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Mister_Bit
 


No , then I move on . The Skills I have Mastered in this Life will be in Demand somewhere else............This is Life , Except it ...



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
The main point of the post and what it contains is that though this is a very simple example; trying to 'equalize' everyone, at the expense of the achievers, then you get exactly what happened in that classroom.


Socialism isn't about making everyone equal. You don't even know what socialism is. You also fail because Obama has not been socialist. He has been corporatist.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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The real name to this thread should Reganomic practices make rich people

richer and poor people poorer which is exactly how it looks at face value.

Obama the socialist, sounds like the same old real republican foolery

everything is Russia
edit on 23-11-2011 by jacklondonmiller because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Raelsatu
To be honest I don't know enough about socialism to really criticize it, at-least in every aspect. One thing that irriates me is people who scream "socialist", as if it's the devils' system; yet most of these people don't know a single thing about it in the first place.


Yes that irritates me also.



Socialism is a economic system where the government oversees corporations/businesses to make sure they're not cheating the public; the people pay higher taxes but are supplied with the basic necessities, e.g. free education, healthcare, etc. Socialist criticize capitalism for materialist reasons, but I do believe they can intermingle.


Hmm no it's not. Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. In stead of a 'private owner', capitalist, the workers themselves own the place at which they work. It started when mill workers realised they would be better off if they owned the mill themselves. Government is not necessary...


Anarchism is stateless socialism, Mikael Bakunin


Anarchism came about when the left split between supporters of the state, Marxist/Leninist, and those that apposed the state who called themselves Anarchists, then later Libertarian Socialists, Libertarians (not the right wing American 'libertarianism' formed in the 1950's).


What we have today essentially is a government with pseudo-socialist oversight, that has now devolved into a crony-capitalist, corporatist welfare state; approaching full-on fascism.


Governments by their very nature are right wing, and are constantly approaching fascism. Government is authority, authority is traditionally right wing, the extreme being fascism. The left being none-authority, anarchism being it's extreme. There can really never be 'left wing' totalitarianism because by definition it would be right wing.
The terms originated in the French National Assembly where the establishment nobles sat on the right, and the revolutionaries on the left. So the right was authoritarian and conservative, the left liberal and for change.


The biggest problem is government and corporations are absorbing each-other, becoming a symbiotic abomination that favors the ___ percent. Pathocrats, plutocrats, & oligarchs call the shots; they own and run the media, bailout their buddies on an international scale. Being the lawmakers, they absolve themselves from acts of fraud, counterfeiting, money laundering, armed robbery, terrorism, and other crimes against humanity.


And that is fascism, as you correctly said, and it is getting more and more obvious. But ultimately the driving force behind all this is private ownership of the means of production. Private owners of huge corporate businesses such as General Electric who have the economic power to control governments.

Capitalism is not free-markets, it is a minority of extremely wealthy people exploiting the rest of us. A basic example is someone working in a factory in China making shirts that sell for $60 in the US, gets paid about 6c to make it. That is how capitalists would like it to be everywhere, but thank god you had a strong labour movement that allowed most of you to move into the middle classes, where also most of you put down that same labour movement. Oh how you have all forgotten your history...And how you are now suffering, and will suffer for that.
Because capitalism is done with America, you're too expensive now, they're exploiting more lucrative labour markets. The only answer is to sit and let it happen, or take control of your own lives and realise that you only need your labour and the means of production, you don't need a 'job'. Stop occupying wall street, and take over the means of production and work. Revolution is not a party, it is real change, and you will not change anything by sitting on your asses.

Real revolution...


During the revolution, as many as 7 million peasants and farm workers set up voluntary collectives in the anti- fascist region....



Workers seized control over their workplaces and directly controled production by themselves and for the benifit of the Spanish workers and peasants.



On July 24the the tram crews got together and decided to run the whole system themselves. Within 5 days 700 trams were in service, instead of the usual 600...
...Everyone benefited from the trams being under workers control. Fares were reduced and an extra 50 million passengers were transported. Yet more money was made and used to improve transport services and produce weapons. With the capitalist profit motive gone, safety became much more important and the number of accidents were reduced.

struggle.ws...

edit on 11/23/2011 by ANOK because: typo



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


" Because capitalism is done with America, you're too expensive now, they're exploiting more lucrative labour markets. The only answer is to sit and let it happen, or take control of your own lives and realise that you only need your labour and the means of production, you don't need a 'job'. Stop occupying wall street, and take over the means of production and work. Revolution is not a party, it is real change, and you will not change anything by sitting on your asses. "

There is some Truth to that , Self Sufficiency can be obtained for the commom masses if they just Reason it out . Creating their Own Wealth by Gile ...........Hmm........
edit on 23-11-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
There is some Truth to that , Self Sufficiency can be obtained for the commom masses if they just Reason it out . Creating their Own Wealth by Gile ...........Hmm........


People have to realise they don't need the private owner to give them a 'job'.

The machinery is there to be used, we are the labour. The lack of 'jobs' is simply part of the artificial scarcity of resources required for capitalism to maintain profits. We suffer whenever the capitalists have to reduce production in order to maintain a profit.

If we ran our work places ourselves we could produce what we need, not crap for someone else to make mass profit at our loss. Chinese workers should not be having to produce shirts for 6c just to survive. This causes a dilemma, because already Chinese workers are organizing against this exploitation, demanding higher wages, and better work conditions. Just like everywhere else, there will come a time when profit does not justify wages, and capitalists will move onto the next impoverished nation to exploit. Leaving a nation that became economically improved, to fall back again into poverty. Then the cycle will repeat...

edit on 11/23/2011 by ANOK because: typo



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by SpaceJockey1
 


If the lecturer had only allowed those students to enter the classroom who paid a fee, then the poor kids miss out on an opportunity to better themselves.

Socialism and capitalism can work side by side. Each keeping the other in check in terms of service offered and cost.

Capitalism will always drive creativity and production. However, this alone comes at a cost.

The oil and resources under your feet should financially benefit the people of the Country, not some rich privately owned Company who makes massive profits enabling them to buy up more future wealth.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by JonoEnglish
reply to post by SpaceJockey1
 


If the lecturer had only allowed those students to enter the classroom who paid a fee, then the poor kids miss out on an opportunity to better themselves.

Socialism and capitalism can work side by side. Each keeping the other in check in terms of service offered and cost.

Capitalism will always drive creativity and production. However, this alone comes at a cost.

The oil and resources under your feet should financially benefit the people of the Country, not some rich privately owned Company who makes massive profits enabling them to buy up more future wealth.




The "Fat Cats" need a reality check, it's the "little people" that are the cogs, the engine and the oil of their success. Without the little people the fat cats will die of starvation, who do they think cooks their posh meals, builds their posh cars and houses, digs for their oil etc etc.....

It's time for the little guy to say enough is enough.

There is nothing wrong with being wealthy, just be careful who you squash on your way up. A sting from a bee may be an irritant, a sting from a whole hive is another matter.

In an ideal world it would be about social conscience, help those that helped you become successful.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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No systems of government work, whether they be socialism, democracy, republic, monarchy, or a dictatorship; it's a catch-22. We need government to create laws to protect people from people, but the government itself is made up of people.

This reminds me of a quote from one of our own founding fathers:

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." – John Adams (1814)

Human beings want to believe we are more advanced than we are, but the truth is, most of mankind isn't ready to be out beyond the entrances of their caves, let alone out in the world bearing power over other humans, nuclear energy, or molestations of nature via [micro]biology. We're still teenagers in the world; we have gained a lot of knowledge in a short amount of time, but we don't have the discipline nor are we responsible enough to use it wisely or unselfishly. I.E.> we know just enough to be dangerous.


~FugitiveSoul




edit on 23-11-2011 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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OP doesn't even know what Socialism is



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by NadaCambia
 


Most people dont seem to know what it is.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:42 AM
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Forgive me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Marx/Engels who said that a capitalistic society would eventually, and unavoidably, turn into a socialist-type system? I have always thought that was probably true, since the constant abuse of the "free market" will have to stop sometime...

And when it does, the people are going to be desperate for relief...And someone will come along, not unlike Obama did when he came out of nowhere, and sweep the majority of the nation off of their feet. Then HELLOOOO socialism. I hope I am wrong, and I probably am...it's just something I have thought about before.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
The main point of the post and what it contains is that though this is a very simple example; trying to 'equalize' everyone, at the expense of the achievers, then you get exactly what happened in that classroom.


Socialism isn't about making everyone equal. You don't even know what socialism is. You also fail because Obama has not been socialist. He has been corporatist.


Amen!!!

I am so tired of all the stupid talk abound...



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:57 AM
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THis comes up every once in a while. I will paste my earlier response to it, as I truly believe it is relevant.

Yeah, I've seen this before. I see some serious holes in it. I am not socialist, and the country I live in is not socialist (though many people ignorant think it is). It has a socialized medical care system though, which is multipayer (and is only available to the employed). Though the economy is capitalist, there still is some socialist values that run underneath the surface.

I don't know if this was a true story, but if it was, I am willing to bet it was in the US. That means the kids were American and were infused with American ideals and values. That is what changes the outcome.

In our american culture, it is "each man for himself", so it follows that each kid will only be concerned about themself as if they were an island, and come up with this result. The mistake is in the assumption that this egoism is an innate human dominant attribute. It is a cultural value that is conditioned and comes from education.

In France, you do the same test, guess what you get?
The kids who worked hard and got a lower result put pressure on the ones that didn't to pick up the effort.
The other kids, all conditioned with the value of respecting the pack and peer pressure as vital, are strongly influenced by the threat of being ostracized by the others, fearing it, work harder for their peers acceptance.

The overall grade goes up. This is why the french have the funny way of being extremely productive, despite that they work less hours on the whole. That time off is to make the social ties stronger which are the "real authority".

American kids are taught not to follow the crowd, not to pressure each other, but remain focused either on themself, or the teacher. Peer pressure is considered a bad thing, and jumping off cliffs seems to be a common worry when they get together......

That is why I think that a socialized program may work well in one place, with a certain culture, but would be a terrible fail in another, depending upon the cultural values. Only in a few generations, if we could change the values through time, could that sort of thing work in the US. We are too selfish, and too...independant, to be able to work together in such a way and be constructive.
______________________________

I thought the other day- How can anyone think of this along the lines only of "I am paying for someone elses care"?
When you pay your insurance company, do you see it that way? Even knowing your insurance company exists for profit, so you are paying into more than just medical care.

Why do so many americans talk as if they wil not be recieving care?- apparently they are without need of any- only others are. None of you are having kids, and your wives needing to be hospitalized for that? How can you be sure you and your family members will never need to go to the doctor?

I find it confusing. Where I am, when I pay my taxes, I am paying right now for care I have had and care I will have. I had children in the hospital and paid nothing, so I pay that back. The women in there now paid for me when I had mine. My daughter is away at college, had an accident and needed emergency surgery. They took her in and did it, even though we could not be found at that time and all she had was her ID card and social security card. I pay each month so that things like that can be taken care of.

I just don't get how peope can be fine with paying outragious insurance payments, (with deductables and no freedom to choose your doctor yourself) and yet see paying a nationalized medical care system as paying for someone else only?



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).


Since the lower 50% of Americans collectively own only 2.5% of ALL of America's accumulated wealth we can give HALF of all Americans collectively a 2.5% grade, aka an F.

I'm pretty damn sure at least 80% of Americans will be getting an F by said professor's analogy.


Have a nice week,
ILikeStars


edit on 24-11-2011 by ILikeStars because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by SpaceJockey1
 


Do you watch too much FOX "News"?


FOX "News" nontruths....


FOX "News" has the highest ratings of all "News" in America.
More than the second highest and third highest news agency's ratings combined.
edit on 24-11-2011 by ILikeStars because: (no reason given)





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