'Kill Team' soldier David Bram gets 5 years in jail over Afghan misconduct

I am definitely glad he is in jail, but disappointed that there have been no charges for anyone higher ranking. I was in the military, and low level personnel such as the perpetrators do not come up with these sort of things on their own (or at least do not commit these acts without tacit approval.) The command climate is ultimately what influences actions as evidenced by the Stanford Prison Experiment. The same thing happened at Abu Ghraib: low ranking people had the book thrown at them, whereas higher ranked people at most had to be demoted and retire.

Command encouragement does not excuse immoral behavior, but it is often the source that encourages such actions and so must also be prosecuted. Better yet, end the war so that low ranking personnel do not experience the extreme confusion, anger, and frustration caused by guerrilla/insurgent warfare which form the catalyst for those acts.

Im sorry this makes me both laugh and it also makes me sick to my stomache: An I quote from the article:

Addressing the court before sentencing, Bram apologized to "the people of Afghanistan" and said, "I pray I have not deterred any young Americans from serving their nation.

"I truly do understand the weight of what I've done," he added, choking back tears. "I understand I must be punished for my actions. I ask for mercy, not for myself but for my beautiful children."

His Chidlren, His Children?, What about the children of those whom he murdered. Who do they have now to look after them? No Mercy he should have received either the death penalty or life in jail without parole.

As for the moron comment. One of his platoon went against him and whistleblown what they were doing wide open, there is your evidence. I do wonder how silly a certain member feels now calling other members morons. When the evidence is there to read.

I’m sorry but end of the day its war!! Blame the government not the solder! His head is messed up from being stuck in that desolate place.

Originally posted by ototheb85
I’m sorry but end of the day its war!! Blame the government not the solder! His head is messed up from being stuck in that desolate place.

edit on 21-11-2011 by ototheb85 because: (no reason given)

Bullcrap.

My best friend spent two years in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. (Infantry)

His little brother is Army Special Forces, has been in and out of the Middle East for the past 10 years.

My brother spent a couple of years in Iraq, in 2002-2004. (Artillery crew leader, served a mostly security role in Iraq, has told me stories of the lives he's had to take and even though he initially fully supported the war effort he has always had deep regret for his involvement in taking life)

You have veterans in this article posting against these crimes..

None of them are killing people and bringing fingers home as souvenirs.

Yes, the USG is ultimately to blame for the wars, but individuals still need to be held responsible for their actions. At least a couple of the so called Kill Team members were screwed up in the head before they even saw combat. You don't do this kind of thing out of nowhere - they had the mentality to do it, and ended up in a situation where they easily could do it. The ones that were on the fence gave in to peer pressure and herd mentality. Those who didn't give in were savagely beaten.

This immediately reminded me of the Manson Family - how there was an obvious and definite ring leader, and a group of followers. I wrote up something about this for my OP but decided against posting it.

Just remember that Tex Watson was recently denied parole after 42 years in prison. David Bram gets 5 years with a chance of parole after 40 months. Same type of crimes - the real difference is the perceived value of the victims.

At the end of the day you are ultimately culpable for your actions. That said, someone needs to investigate his command, otherwise it's just another Abu Ghraib where junior enlisted people followed orders and the command climate. They all got thrown under the bus, but magically no commanders got prison time. The worst that happened was a General getting demoted and being forced to retire. And of course the people that started the ball rolling on this mess (Cheney and Rumsfeld) has their deluded plausible denyability with no consequences for their actions.