Common sense for America: A case for less government

"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.” Adrian Pierce Rogers (September 12, 1931 – November 15, 2005)

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My premise is NOT that we should NOT have any taxes. I just think we are out of control in this country, and the idea that government can fix everything by legislation, or make everything "fair" by redistributing wealth, is just wrong.

Really think about each one of these points:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

5. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

With the upcoming elections in 2012, I think we are at a crossroads. We have seen it with first the Tea Party movement, then the Occupy Wall Street Movement. We are at a place where we MUST demand fiscal responsibility of the government AND personal responsibility for the citizens.

We must NOT support career politicians who have created a gravy train for themselves. We MUST vote them out...in BOTH parties. It's time to shine a light on what they are doing in Washington and get rid of them. Time for TRUE change!

It's also time to send the message: the American people are NOT an unlimited checkbook for Washington.

The crossroads the U.S. is at is the number of citizens who sit back and receive govt handouts will equal or outnumber those who work regularly and produce an income.

Which politician do you think will get the majority of votes: The one who advocates less benefits and smaller govt? Or the one who promises the continuation of handouts and the promotes the evil personification of those who are "rich"?

The OWS revolution is cute, but the real revolution is yet to come when the people who produce income are fed up with the continual increasing of taxes on them to support the majority of other citizens who don't work.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Why not? We legislated the wealthy into prosperity over the last 50 years, What makes you think it wouldn't work the other way around?

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

Yes, and?

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
...
5. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

Where are you getting these? Sounds like something the Sphinx might say:




I agree with less government. but these pithy sayings don't really address that at all...

Apparently the OP is unaware in how our Monetary System actually operates in the United States.

The concept that the Government is incapable of giving something to someone without taking it from another is completely uninformed.

Of course they can.

The Treasury creates a bond (out of thin air), sells this bond to the Federal Reserve, who has “printed” another promissory note ( out of thin air, backed with no collateral ).
Presto the Government has created money out of thin air, without taking it from another.

Sure, it dilutes the value of ALL money in circulation which lowers the purchasing strength, but they have a scheme for that as well. Remove money in circulation, HOW ? taxation.

Our monetary system is no more than a giant Ponzie scheme.

Well, given the state of affairs currently moving around the country, I say it is time to arm yourself. It's only a matter of time now before the flash point is hit and all of this boils over. All the other nations who had social movements like this start, watched as it snowballed and wound up replacing it's government.

Our Constitution does not allow for an over reaching federal government. It was designed to keep the union of state countries in balance with each other. We were never intended to be an offensive military, but rather defensive. When you allow the federal government to legislate what states can or cannot do you have lost the very essence of what our Constitution is.

I do not advocate violence as a solution, however in this case I don't see where we are going to have any other choice. If you value your freedom,

PREPARE FOR DOMESTIC WAR!!!

Yes you can legislate the poor into prosperity, especially by legislating the wealthy.

Outlaw the transfer of wealth from the populace to Corporation. Stop the Bailouts.

Enact tariffs on imported products slightly higher than the cost of manufacture of the same product with in our boarders.

Don’t allow Mexican Trucks to operate outside of the 25 mile trade zone.

Enforce insider trading laws.

I could go on and on with example upon example, but the point here is that the Laws of the United States have been designed to make the rich ,richer and the poor , poorer.

Dear OP,

You are attempting to link several unrelated and diverse issues into one, and then comming out with a one size fit all solution which lacks common sense if not logic, and will certainly do more harm than help anyone out of predicaments.

Your pet grouses are

1. taxes and out of control.
2. You ASSUMED that legislation is attempting to fix everything, and
3. redistribution of wealth wont make things fair.
4. Worse, you wish to make a case for less gov as a solution for everything.

.
1. Taxes are certainly out of control, where the rich, whom had enriched themselves off the back of others, had paid NO or little taxes, as compared to the middle classes and the poor whom pays for everything through indirect taxes - taxes added into cost of products they purchased for survival.

Taxes is not a means of 'redistribution of wealth', but basically to ensure there are funds for social expenditure such as education, healthcare, infrastructure, police, military, etc - functions which ensures the next generation will benefit from growth and prosperity.

Taxes DO NOT directly go into the poor's or anyone pockets, except for the truly need about to be left behind, and to corrupt politicians, bankers and corporations whom takes a cut from public spending as overt or covert 'fees'.

.
2. Legislation does not attempts to make things fair. It attempts only to ensure a level playing field for all, in socio-political and economic activities. It does not hinders acheivers, nor punish the slackers, thus providing only opportunities for all so that none be left behind if one have no wish to be left behind.

.
3. Redistribution of Wealth can be fair, not through taxes, but by the creation of jobs and the payment for honest labour given. A company is only as good as its workers whom offered their sweat for the success of the company.

While within capitalist system, it would be impossible for profits to be shared equally, for the investor did provide capital to start the company. But it is Very possible that all profits need not be concentrated only to the top, but spread FAIRLY, not necessarily equally to all whom had contributed to the success.

When every company and corporation does that, there will be more wealth distributed and circulated within ecnomies, creating more jobs and opportunities for others, rather than the concentration of wealth at the top, whom only hoards such wealth and will not spend it, thus limiting the circulation of wealth to all, eventually destroying economies.

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4. Less government is often useful as it can cut down wastes, espacially for small nations. However, for an empire, it will need more legislators to OVERSEE its daily operations, to ensure regulations are kept, or corruption of greed and power will occur without oversight.

During Pre-Caesar days, the roman gov were made up of only a few legislators - senate and tribune. It was then only a small village. It never needed that many.

But as the years and roman influence grew, oversight was necessary in all aspects of roman lives - governers, judges, etc within the far flung regions of Rome and within Rome.

After Octavius took over office, he realistically grew the legislatives and efficiently ruled Rome for years till his death, and was considered a golden age for there was finally peace in the land after the titanic struggles of Caesar's blossoming roman empire and rebellious gov, even though Octavious sought for monarchy as a system of gov.

USA is not a monarchy, nor ever will be, but it is no longer a 13 state nation with only a few million citizens and a militia.

Today, America's influences are even catapulted into space, and to remain a credible nation with true economic power, it would need the services of more legislators to ensured that that power is oversighted and functioning properly, or only corruption and negligence will doom the nation and drain it of its wealth and prosperity of all its citizens

Originally posted by brokedown
Apparently the OP is unaware in how our Monetary System actually operates in the United States.

The concept that the Government is incapable of giving something to someone without taking it from another is completely uninformed.

Of course they can.

The Treasury creates a bond (out of thin air), sells this bond to the Federal Reserve, who has “printed” another promissory note ( out of thin air, backed with no collateral ).
Presto the Government has created money out of thin air, without taking it from another.

Sure, it dilutes the value of ALL money in circulation which lowers the purchasing strength, but they have a scheme for that as well. Remove money in circulation, HOW ? taxation.

Our monetary system is no more than a giant Ponzie scheme.

Without being rude and saying YOU have no idea how our monetary system operates, I'd like to say that here's how YOUR premise is flawed:

When the government creates money out of nothing, they have in essence taken money from ALL of us, because our money is worth less. So Presto! They have given money to others AND taken money from ALL of us at the same time.

Originally posted by brokedown
Yes you can legislate the poor into prosperity, especially by legislating the wealthy.

Outlaw the transfer of wealth from the populace to Corporation. Stop the Bailouts.

Enact tariffs on imported products slightly higher than the cost of manufacture of the same product with in our boarders.

Don’t allow Mexican Trucks to operate outside of the 25 mile trade zone.

Enforce insider trading laws.

I could go on and on with example upon example, but the point here is that the Laws of the United States have been designed to make the rich ,richer and the poor , poorer.

EVERY single one of your suggestions is a good one. I agree 100% with all of those ideas...HOWEVER...

NOT ONE of them will make the poor wealthy.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Taxes is not a means of 'redistribution of wealth', but basically to ensure there are funds for social expenditure such as education, healthcare, infrastructure, police, military, etc - functions which ensures the next generation will benefit from growth and prosperity.

Are you kidding? Have you never heard of the Earned Income Tax Credit? Research that, and see what it is all about. I can promise you...money is going from one pocket DIRECTLY into another pocket, after first passing through the government. It's so sneaky that apparently many people don't know it is happening.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I've got to agree.

The first point gave me quite the chuckle

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl


No one wants to make the poor wealthy. I just don't want them suffering needlessly. I want food on their table. I want the economy to support ALL the country's people, not just the top 1%. I want a strong and producing middle class. I want manufacturing jobs BACK in this country. I want a prosperous COUNTRY, not just the wealthy.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

No one wants to make the poor wealthy. I just don't want them suffering needlessly. I want food on their table. I want the economy to support ALL the country's people, not just the top 1%. I want a strong and producing middle class. I want manufacturing jobs BACK in this country. I want a prosperous COUNTRY, not just the wealthy.

And in my original post, I talked about what I think we MUST do, by starting at the voting booth in 2012.

I 100% think it is time to change things. But we need to get past the divide-and-conquor strategies that are going on right now, pull together, and vote out career politicians. GET RID of any politician who has been bought and paid for by lobbyists. Take back the power, and change the direction we are going.

If there were no special laws and special bailouts for their special buddies, the playing field would be much more level. Companies could start hiring again. I also want to see a prosperous America. But we have to do more than protest and complain. Regardless of what anyone says, I think we STILL have the power to vote these clowns out (the guilty from BOTH parties.)

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

No one wants to make the poor wealthy. I just don't want them suffering needlessly. I want food on their table. I want the economy to support ALL the country's people, not just the top 1%. I want a strong and producing middle class. I want manufacturing jobs BACK in this country. I want a prosperous COUNTRY, not just the wealthy.

Then you should want a smaller government, much less regulations, laws and policies that have driven business, jobs and manufacturing out of the USA... Things that would actually bring about real recovery and investment in the USA.

You can't have both.

The rich are getting richer, more so now on the global markets and at the loss for the 99% of Americans, BECAUSE the USA isn't business friendly anymore.

You can WANT and demand all you want, but it can only get worse here as long as government remains in the way of economic growth and sucking the life out of the economy, regulating the private sector into oblivion.... You can find ways to take what the wealthy have and redistribute that, but most of them will be long gone before then, and those that have their wealth redistributed will have only provided a temporary bump, and false economy... Year or more and then what when it all collapses?