Also I would like to say, that most people who call themselve's believers act nowhere similar to the manner of someone who truly believes and is
blessed. Case and point, Christmas with the BS of the trees and gifts, should not be celebrated in that manner by a believer. Easter with the eggs and
easter bunny, no should not matter. To say you believe but then to not act in a way that you should means that you do not truly believe, youre a false
believer.
Was thinking of creating a new religon., page 1
privacy
Pages:
ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times
ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times
Topic started on 16-11-2011 @ 07:58 AM by fishman1985
So ive been thinking about life and religon and our creator and everything. Ive come to a couple of conclusion's about it. 1. The highest ups in the
church are very similar to TPTB in such a way as they want to control things. 2. We cannot trust those who want to control as they will say and do
anything to keep thier control. 3. This life we live is a gift from the creator and should be cherished every waking minute. 4. Some people just do
not have the mental capacity to see beyone what they can physically see. 5.Some people will never wake up to what is going on around us, they just
don't want to and are not willing to try.
There are many truths in life and to go into them all on this one thread is almost impossible. But my thoughts are this. It would be great if our group of people who believe in all that is right and good had an actual community behind them to support and help them. We that believe need to come together and show solidarity in our lives and the way we live. We also need to realize that we are responsible for every action we take and even as we read this we are still plugged into thier system and are still thier pawns.
I was thinking that we could name it the Witnesses of the coming cleansing, or something along those lines. I personally have had several divine visions, and sitting here thinking about it this morning, I find it interesting that I have had 3 visions, coincidence that there is a holy trinity? Visions
So anyway I really don't know how much farther to take this thread, but I do know that I would like to try and save as many peoples souls as possible before this end comes, and let me say, I really feel that it is very close now. Not that Im saying when or where or how or any of the questions that people want answered, just that it is close as elluded to in my thread with visions. With this being said I would appreciate input from true believers, AND JUST KNOW TROLLS/DAMNED PEOPLES, DONT EVEN BOTHER WAISTING YOUR TIME TRYING TO SAY YOUR BS, THIS THREAD IS FOR BELIEVERS ONLY.
REPENT NOW FOR THE END IS NEAR!
There are many truths in life and to go into them all on this one thread is almost impossible. But my thoughts are this. It would be great if our group of people who believe in all that is right and good had an actual community behind them to support and help them. We that believe need to come together and show solidarity in our lives and the way we live. We also need to realize that we are responsible for every action we take and even as we read this we are still plugged into thier system and are still thier pawns.
I was thinking that we could name it the Witnesses of the coming cleansing, or something along those lines. I personally have had several divine visions, and sitting here thinking about it this morning, I find it interesting that I have had 3 visions, coincidence that there is a holy trinity? Visions
So anyway I really don't know how much farther to take this thread, but I do know that I would like to try and save as many peoples souls as possible before this end comes, and let me say, I really feel that it is very close now. Not that Im saying when or where or how or any of the questions that people want answered, just that it is close as elluded to in my thread with visions. With this being said I would appreciate input from true believers, AND JUST KNOW TROLLS/DAMNED PEOPLES, DONT EVEN BOTHER WAISTING YOUR TIME TRYING TO SAY YOUR BS, THIS THREAD IS FOR BELIEVERS ONLY.
REPENT NOW FOR THE END IS NEAR!
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:05 AM by Lionhearte
reply to post by fishman1985
It just sounds like you're describing Christianity.
Actually, I take that back. Christianity isn't a religion. There's a "Religion" of people who call themselves "Christians", but they don't believe in the words of Christ, even if they say they believe him, apparently they don't get the point that good works don't save them.
It just sounds like you're describing Christianity.
Actually, I take that back. Christianity isn't a religion. There's a "Religion" of people who call themselves "Christians", but they don't believe in the words of Christ, even if they say they believe him, apparently they don't get the point that good works don't save them.
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:10 AM by fishman1985
Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by fishman1985
It just sounds like you're describing Christianity.
Actually, I take that back. Christianity isn't a religion. There's a "Religion" of people who call themselves "Christians", but they don't believe in the words of Christ, even if they say they believe him, apparently they don't get the point that good works don't save them.
Im partially describing a majority of "christians" but not all. Most people are just faking the funk and Im tired of being classified with a bunch of fakers.
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:11 AM by ICEKOHLD
reply to post by fishman1985
be like Jesus. teach others that the way to salvation is from within...not from outside. so...you can't save anyone. only they can save themselves. and...if they're not smart enough to save themselves, do you really want them around after TSHTF?
Jesus was murdered by the church for speaking against religion. religion sucks. everyone for themselves! sure common beliefs are great and all but to each their own. no one path will work for 2 people. simple logic.
be like Jesus. teach others that the way to salvation is from within...not from outside. so...you can't save anyone. only they can save themselves. and...if they're not smart enough to save themselves, do you really want them around after TSHTF?
Jesus was murdered by the church for speaking against religion. religion sucks. everyone for themselves! sure common beliefs are great and all but to each their own. no one path will work for 2 people. simple logic.
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:12 AM by reficul
reply to post by Lionhearte
amen brother! (sorry thats egyptian,no) IF YOU WANT TO BE LIKE JESUS,PERFORM THE ACTS OF JESUS!
christianity i don`t mind,its most christians that piss me off!
amen brother! (sorry thats egyptian,no) IF YOU WANT TO BE LIKE JESUS,PERFORM THE ACTS OF JESUS!
christianity i don`t mind,its most christians that piss me off!
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:20 AM by Praetorius
reply to post by fishman1985
Good discussion so far.
Instead of starting a new religion, just revive "the Way". That's what christianity was originally called when it was decentralized and met primarily in private house churches, hasn't adopted pagan religions, and actually adhered to its pacifist and other roots (you know, like the actual teachings of Christ).
I myself am a follower of the Way. I really need to fellowship more often as I haven't been to "church" in months now, but I've at least successfully mitigated some of the conviction I feel in being so closely tied to an organization that all too often doesn't walk according to the dictates set by its leader and is so populated by so many not of a like mind who worry so much about having fancy things and supporting those committing crimes against humanity - conscious of this or no.
Good idea, but it just needs a revival, not a redoing.
Good discussion so far.
Instead of starting a new religion, just revive "the Way". That's what christianity was originally called when it was decentralized and met primarily in private house churches, hasn't adopted pagan religions, and actually adhered to its pacifist and other roots (you know, like the actual teachings of Christ).
I myself am a follower of the Way. I really need to fellowship more often as I haven't been to "church" in months now, but I've at least successfully mitigated some of the conviction I feel in being so closely tied to an organization that all too often doesn't walk according to the dictates set by its leader and is so populated by so many not of a like mind who worry so much about having fancy things and supporting those committing crimes against humanity - conscious of this or no.
Good idea, but it just needs a revival, not a redoing.
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:23 AM by ICEKOHLD
reply to post by Praetorius
i bet you are a follower of the way with all that tool going on in your signature. tool is the only \band i listen to. and i mean that. tool is always playing. in my car. my living room. my phone. only music that has any real meaning to me. the rest is just noise to me.
and...much of what tool speaks of is the way. tool is like church music to me...
i bet you are a follower of the way with all that tool going on in your signature. tool is the only \band i listen to. and i mean that. tool is always playing. in my car. my living room. my phone. only music that has any real meaning to me. the rest is just noise to me.
and...much of what tool speaks of is the way. tool is like church music to me...
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:27 AM by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by ICEKOHLD
Yeshua was not murdered by the church. It did not exist yet.
And He did not speak against religion. He spoke against man's law being put above YHWH's law.
He taught pure Torah.
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
Yeshua was not murdered by the church. It did not exist yet.
And He did not speak against religion. He spoke against man's law being put above YHWH's law.
He taught pure Torah.
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:38 AM by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by Praetorius
Yeshua did not teach pacifism. He taught against revenge and offensive assault.
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
Yeshua did not teach pacifism. He taught against revenge and offensive assault.
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 08:53 AM by Praetorius
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by Praetorius
Yeshua did not teach pacifism. He taught against revenge and offensive assault.
Given his words as well as the testimony of the earliest church - which I consider the best witness of Christ's teachings (good info on the Wiki page discussing Christian Pacifism), I have to disagree.
It wasn't really until around the times of Augustine and Constantine that the establishment church started moving away from its pacifist stance, and prior to that it wasn't uncommon for the church to require retirement or rejection of certain orders from military members for admittance, as well as not allowing believers to become soldiers.
The record is quite clear, honestly. Christ said it best, and is in keeping with his other teachings on forgiveness, doing unto others as we'd have them do to us, and so forth - God will handle us as we handle others, and he's got plenty of things to hold us accountable for, so best not respond to the sins of others lest God respond to our own accordingly.
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
Just my thoughts, but I honestly can't read through his words and find any other teaching, beyond some preachers stretching to interpolate otherwise, with quite the strain in doing so.
Take care, friend.
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 10:33 AM by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Praetorius
Considering Yeshua was a Torah teacher, everything He says should line up with Torah.
So how does pacifism line up with Torah?
Total pacifism is not scriptural.
He was reiterating Leviticus 19:18, which says "“Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. "
Furthermore, if you take that position. Yeshua broke his own teachings by attacking the enemies of the Torah, both verbally and physically.
Yeshua taught justice. Not revenge, and certainly not pacifism.
He was killed because He refused to be a pacifist and go along with the system.
Considering Yeshua was a Torah teacher, everything He says should line up with Torah.
So how does pacifism line up with Torah?
Total pacifism is not scriptural.
He was reiterating Leviticus 19:18, which says "“Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. "
Furthermore, if you take that position. Yeshua broke his own teachings by attacking the enemies of the Torah, both verbally and physically.
Yeshua taught justice. Not revenge, and certainly not pacifism.
He was killed because He refused to be a pacifist and go along with the system.
edit on 11/16/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 16-11-2011 @ 11:20 AM by Praetorius
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
What did he teach on divorce, compared to the torah? What did he himself teach on violence, and what was the example of those closest to him who heard his teachings most directly?
He regularly expounded on and reinterpreted typical understandings of the law and prophets (hence so many frequently being astounded at his teachings "as one with authority" as well as others seeking to kill him on a semi-regular basis).
You argue with his words and the legacy of his earliest believers for a few centuries on that, friend.
As far as the cleansing of the temple, the texts are lacking to claim he actually committed violence against the moneychangers and lenders as compared to merely chasing them out or driving them out with the assistance of the livestock. Additionally, these people were not necessarily evil or aggressors, so we're dealing with somewhat different situations as well as something beyond a physical attack on the part of Christ. People can be herded without being whipped or beaten directly.
Regardless, his teachings are abundant and clear, and were clearly interpreted as pacifistic by his earliest followers. We are to not resist evil people physically, we are to love our enemies and do good to them (and bless them and pray for them), we are to be peacemakers and are warned against living by the sword.
Christ even tells us that those who wish to save their lives (temporal lives, I assume) will lose them (eternal lives, as I take it), and those whoever loses their life for Christ's sake will save theirs.
I would like to see confirmation of this from his own words and the testimony of the early church through about the 4th century, in that case.
I'm not sure how you can come to the first part of that conclusion, honestly, when he willingly went to his death without violence, ordered his disciples not to fight, and even healed one of his captors, after teaching for years on non-violence and returning good for evil. He definitely refused to go along with the system, though. He practiced active non-violent non-compliance in doing so.
This is just my personal view as I read his words, the rest of the new testament, and the testimony of the early church. I haven't yet been able to come across any instruction in any of these for believers to take up arms and fight oppression, instead I find many accounts of christians willingly going to their martyrdom singing hymns of praise and forgiving their abusers (all the while witnessing to them with their words and their willing deaths). Stephen even cried out for the forgiveness of his attackers in Acts 7 as they were killing him, instead of trying to resist or defend himself.
I can only speak for myself in this, but I feel is safest to trust the words and examples as he and they relayed them until Rome came into the picture. He was also clear in his teachings that the way is narrow and generally a hard thing to follow, and not something of or generally understood by the world.
Long story short - despite the fact that I would LOVE to find an "out" to my understanding of this (as it's completely contrary to my natural inclinations, and I don't know if I would actually be able to follow it in some situations), I have not been able to - and this was not my understanding before I started seriously looking into my faith...I was also a believer in "just war" and its related aspects. But the testimony of Christ and the church that followed him directly have convinced me otherwise.
And this is yet another reason I am cognitive dissonance. At times, I truly don't like being a child of two worlds...
Grace and peace to you, I don't intend any argument. I just have to provide my thoughts as I can see no way around them with the available information. Take care.
Considering Yeshua was a Torah teacher, everything He says should line up with Torah.
What did he teach on divorce, compared to the torah? What did he himself teach on violence, and what was the example of those closest to him who heard his teachings most directly?
He regularly expounded on and reinterpreted typical understandings of the law and prophets (hence so many frequently being astounded at his teachings "as one with authority" as well as others seeking to kill him on a semi-regular basis).
So how does pacifism line up with Torah?
Total pacifism is not scriptural.
You argue with his words and the legacy of his earliest believers for a few centuries on that, friend.
Furthermore, if you take that position. Yeshua broke his own teachings by attacking the enemies of the Torah, both verbally and physically.
As far as the cleansing of the temple, the texts are lacking to claim he actually committed violence against the moneychangers and lenders as compared to merely chasing them out or driving them out with the assistance of the livestock. Additionally, these people were not necessarily evil or aggressors, so we're dealing with somewhat different situations as well as something beyond a physical attack on the part of Christ. People can be herded without being whipped or beaten directly.
Regardless, his teachings are abundant and clear, and were clearly interpreted as pacifistic by his earliest followers. We are to not resist evil people physically, we are to love our enemies and do good to them (and bless them and pray for them), we are to be peacemakers and are warned against living by the sword.
Christ even tells us that those who wish to save their lives (temporal lives, I assume) will lose them (eternal lives, as I take it), and those whoever loses their life for Christ's sake will save theirs.
Yeshua taught justice. Not revenge, and certainly not pacifism.
I would like to see confirmation of this from his own words and the testimony of the early church through about the 4th century, in that case.
He was killed because He refused to be a pacifist and go along with the system.
I'm not sure how you can come to the first part of that conclusion, honestly, when he willingly went to his death without violence, ordered his disciples not to fight, and even healed one of his captors, after teaching for years on non-violence and returning good for evil. He definitely refused to go along with the system, though. He practiced active non-violent non-compliance in doing so.
This is just my personal view as I read his words, the rest of the new testament, and the testimony of the early church. I haven't yet been able to come across any instruction in any of these for believers to take up arms and fight oppression, instead I find many accounts of christians willingly going to their martyrdom singing hymns of praise and forgiving their abusers (all the while witnessing to them with their words and their willing deaths). Stephen even cried out for the forgiveness of his attackers in Acts 7 as they were killing him, instead of trying to resist or defend himself.
I can only speak for myself in this, but I feel is safest to trust the words and examples as he and they relayed them until Rome came into the picture. He was also clear in his teachings that the way is narrow and generally a hard thing to follow, and not something of or generally understood by the world.
Long story short - despite the fact that I would LOVE to find an "out" to my understanding of this (as it's completely contrary to my natural inclinations, and I don't know if I would actually be able to follow it in some situations), I have not been able to - and this was not my understanding before I started seriously looking into my faith...I was also a believer in "just war" and its related aspects. But the testimony of Christ and the church that followed him directly have convinced me otherwise.
And this is yet another reason I am cognitive dissonance. At times, I truly don't like being a child of two worlds...
Grace and peace to you, I don't intend any argument. I just have to provide my thoughts as I can see no way around them with the available information. Take care.
Pages: ^^TOP^^
Was Jesus a Greek-Phoenician Philosopher? A hidden book, revealed…
Posted 1 days ago with 30 member flags
Posted 1 days ago with 30 member flags
Who killed the prophet Muhammad? A 1400 year old murder mystery.
Posted 17 days ago with 16 member flags
Posted 17 days ago with 16 member flags
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
Ancient Photographic Evidance of Angels. The Real Anunnaki
Conspiracies in Religions: 10 minutes ago
Conspiracies in Religions: 10 minutes ago
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
10-year-old deaf girl hears herself for the first time-Must See!!
Science & Technology: 16 hours ago, 31 flags
Science & Technology: 16 hours ago, 31 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
Aussie Gov Says They'll Fine Anyone Who Blames Carbon Tax For Price Increases, Despite Carbon Tax C
Breaking Alternative News: 16 hours ago, 63 replies
Breaking Alternative News: 16 hours ago, 63 replies
Who is the very top leader of the world elite/Illuminati? who is the real Power Behind the Elite?
New World Order: 17 hours ago, 35 replies
New World Order: 17 hours ago, 35 replies
Security backdoor found in China-made US military chip
Breaking Alternative News: 15 hours ago, 28 replies
Breaking Alternative News: 15 hours ago, 28 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.243 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.243 seconds
