Moon Orbit Wrong Cornell University Says.

reply to post by CherubBaby


Agreed. No-one is questioning or refuting the paper,

We're questioning your understanding of what the paper says. You clearly haven't read it. Nor, it seems, do you understand the terms used. Such as eccentricity. Which, with regards orbit, does not mean obessively collecting and cataloguing matchboxes, eating beetroot and cucumber sandwiches as precisely 4.10pm every day or donning a deerstalker to ride a penny farthing into town to do the weekly shopping.

Look all I am saying is that your points are noted. What do you want? You want to tie me up?
I don't ask for anyone to validate anything I say. I just wish there was a different crew on duty for a change. I mean cmon you act like your all related. Family? The Osmonds? I don't know. Do you think there is something you haven't said at this point.?

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia
Except the site you refer to pushes the idea of an other planet being the culprit.

In my opinion this is where this is going.

There are some Nibiru Truthers here that are keeping that fact hidden until they can prove all of this other stuff going wrong.

And to be frank, I fully understand because if you come out of the gate as a Nibiru Truther there's nowhere else to go at that point as far as credibility is concerned.

So I think a bunch of these folks are pointing out these various "issues" they see (or want to see) with the sun and the moon, and when there's enough people on their side then WHAM, heeeeeeeeeere's Nibiru.

reply to post by Essan


Kinda sorta. I would equate it to measuring the distance from your front door to your mail box by counting your steps while a guy next to you measures it with a tape measure, only to find out a week later by laser ranging that it's a few nanometers closer than the tape measure said it was, then saying you noticed that all along because you counted your steps.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
Im not mad . I just think it would be nice to let some other people have a chance to participate.
url]http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread673431/pg1[/url]

edit on 15-11-2011 by CherubBaby because: link

Who are you looking to participate? This has been completely debunked (not the paper which may be correct, but your complete misunderstanding and mispresenting of what the paper says and who it was by).

reply to post by CherubBaby


You'd be surprised. Illustronic and I live in the same basement.
But that's alright, I can always spot the usual crew pushing threads like this.

And by the way...is there something you haven't said yet? For some reason, people keep pushing the idea that the moon is out-of-place, as if no one's heard that before either. And that makes it all the more necessary for us to keep "debunking" these threads, because, obviously, you're not listening. I believe they call it beating a dead horse...but, sometimes, dead horses still keep kicking.

Originally posted by Toffeeapple
But it's still odd though, as it suggests the influence of some other 'body' in the galaxy that wasn't there previously.

At the risk of being flamed like a steak, I've felt the moon is different ever since the rocket was fired at it a couple of years back. I can't put my finger on what the difference is, but I get a jolt of discomfort now whenever I look at it.

No it doesn't suggest that at all. If anything, it's due to angular momentum. The moon is very slowly moving away from us and in another billion years or so, the Earth's gravity won't be able to hold onto it.

That's my guess, at any rate. I didn't read the paper or watch the video.

reply to post by Illustronic


While I appreciate the information, the measurements are there on record...I live near the Adler Planentarium, plus Valparaiso University has an excellent observatory with years of records...could get it down to millimeter...

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by jeichelberg

 

You again are wrong and guesswork is your middle name? You have no clue what your talking about. If you did you would know that what you presume of others and what they are doing is WRONG. Should I go into the conversations with the local news ? I won't because I don't need to. Don't quit your day job. Your not very good at mind reading or guess work for that matter. You are however good at ranting ... Don't they have a thread for that?

Rant? What rant? Why do you derail your own threads with these baseless ad hominem attacks...stick to the subject matter...you are showing nothing...The paper you submitted does nothing to SUPPORT the title of your thread, which is, "Moon Orbit Wrong Cornell University Says. " First, Cornell does not state this...Second, as evidenced by the very first page of your submitted "paper,": a) it has not been submitted (missing date); and, b) it has not been reviewed.

reply to post by CherubBaby

Yeah, ATS has lost it's glitz. Now it just sucks. I rarely even log in anymore, and visit perhaps twice a week. I used to be addicted, and left a tab open all day long. Those days are gone; you can't discuss anything anymore - just argue. Here's an old quote that sums it up...

A discussion is an exchange of ideas; an argument is an exchange of ignorance. And for you flame throwers; get a life...

reply to post by CherubBaby


I think most people have already covered a large portion of this, so I won't repeat what has already been said, except that this is clearly your inability to understand what is written on the paper.

The moon is fine and right where it should be, I regularly take the 'scope out each summer and my autostar never has a problem "finding it".

One thing I will add is, you say "not normal", compared to how long the Earth-Moon system has been around, to how long us mere humans have been observing it, how the hell can anybody say what is normal and what is not?

I mean, a billion years ago the Moon was a heck of a lot closer, and over the years it has slowly been edging away, so its kinda like traveling back a billion years, looking at the moon and saying "ayup, somethings not quite right 'ere pal".

reply to post by visualmiscreant

While I am inclined to listen to the voice of academia and reason on many things. I am not inclined to put my faith in them, no matter how many numbers, big words, and peer-reviews they toss around. In this case though, I happen to believe CLPrime, Phage, and others are most likely correct in what they are saying as far as the science goes.

However, I also believe if there are enough people around the world noticing anomalies with the moon. Then there may very well be anomalies. But it may not be the moon itself that is different. There could be another reason for why the moon "appears" to be different.

Unlike many of our esteemed religious scientists here at ATS. Whom I appreciate btw. I am not so quick to pooh pooh human observation.

Are there other explanations that could account for this seemingly common observation?

Apart from the usual bashing of anyone who notices something out of the ordinary that science says is impossible?

reply to post by CherubBaby


Did you actually read all of the article? Did you understand its real implications?

Or, is it so important to exaggerate from a scientific paper that within it indicates the very tiniest of difference in what is calculated to the Nth degree by orbital mathematics and known laws of physics?

And, the "source" is from a Web Forum posting? With a particularly poor YouTube video....a video that shows absolutely nothing to support the assertion.

Essentially, this is an hypothesis by someone who makes an incredible leap after learning that there is the tiniest of anomalies (less than 6 inches) in the predicted orbital distance-from-Earth limits of our Moon.......the leap to a postulate of the "mysterious 'Planet X' or *Nemesis*'.....

Here, is where the original author's assumptions and assertions fall apart. And, where the uninitiated seem to fall down in their understanding.

The "Planet X" or *Nemesis* or by-any-other-name large body that is being suggested, here, is described as an as yet undiscovered trans-Plutonian object. Think about that, for a minute......outside the orbit of Pluto!!

Which is closer to the Earth? The Sun, or Jupiter? (Answer is: The Sun).

Which is more massive? The Sun, or Jupiter? (Answer is: The Sun)

Question....Does Jupiter significantly affect and alter the Moon's orbit about the Earth? If you say (correctly) "No"...then, how can any celestial body, even if the size of, or a bit larger than Jupiter, significantly affect the Moon's orbit if it is even farther away from the Moon than Jupiter is??

For reference: Distance of Earth/Moon system to Jupiter = 4.2 to 6.2 AU (varies due to size of orbits).

Distance of Earth/Moon system to Pluto = (average) 39.5 AU!

Sinking in, yet?

(The very tiny anomalous behavior measured in the Moon's orbit may be interesting, but this hypothesis is NOT even worth considering. Also, it is most likely the case that these anomalies are the result of the ever more precise ability we have to measure, and therefore refine the data....not the other way 'round......)

There does appear to be a submission to Cornell by the author, Lorenzo Lorio on the subject. There are also other submissions by him, if any have been reviewed by peers I don't know. This is for information only, and has nothing to do with the OP, which in turn has nothing tangible to do with the paper.


www.cornell.edu...


arxiv.org...

reply to post by smurfy

It should be noted that arXiv is a clearinghouse for articles. While the Cornell Library manages the collection, there is no direct connection between many (most?) of the articles found there and Cornell University itself.

Started in August 1991, arXiv.org (formerly xxx.lanl.gov) is a highly-automated electronic archive and distribution server for research articles.

arxiv.org...

As pointed out, Cornell has made the article available but the author is not associated with the University as is implied by the thread title (relevant or otherwise).

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by smurfy

 

It should be noted that arXiv is a clearinghouse for articles. While the Cornell Library manages the collection, As pointed out, Cornell has made the article available but the author is not associated with the University as is implied by the thread title (relevant or otherwise).

I didn't say he was an associate, merely pointing out misnomers from some other posts. But he does have international standing even if relatively young, in fact it is quite impressive. I think you should have mentioned Lorio's Bona fide research rather than playing on the non-Cornell connection alone. Furthermore, I had already stated that Lorio's findings had nothing to do with the OP's thread.

miur.academia.edu...

BTW I repost Cornell's own searchlink,

www.cornell.edu... probably the same source but no matter, you did not deal with it.

Do you honestly think that nobody at the Ivy league has read any of his stuff, or is not familiar with him, I don't think so. Also, Lorio has another paper and talk on planet X prior to this one, maybe you could dig it out.

Frankly I don't care at this point what is causing it, the fact is something is not right with the moon. Thats all I need to know at this point. That explains why thousands of people have reported through observation something isn't right with the moon.

The secular changes in the orbital eccentricity of the Moon are not detectable with the naked eye. When people on this forum start saying things like "the Moon isn't right", or "it's upside down", they need to realise that it's time to stop drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, or smoking weed.

Originally posted by Mogget

Frankly I don't care at this point what is causing it, the fact is something is not right with the moon. Thats all I need to know at this point. That explains why thousands of people have reported through observation something isn't right with the moon.

The secular changes in the orbital eccentricity of the Moon are not detectable with the naked eye. When people on this forum start saying things like "the Moon isn't right", or "it's upside down", they need to realise that it's time to stop drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, or smoking weed.

That's a nice easy out, isn't it? Instead of attacking and insulting people, have you considered what I asked above? Is it possible folks really are seeing something? And just don't understand what it is they're seeing?

Instead of perpetuating ignorance, try helping to deny it by looking at their obversations with an open mind.

reply to post by Klassified


What about those that WANT to see something "off"? It's more than just noticing something innocently enough, but rather wanting there to be something askew and grasping at straws to create evidence of that manifestation.

When my Aunt Linda in Springfield who has no concept of conspiracy theories tells me she sees a blue planet next to the sun, that's when I'll # my pantaloons.

When the Moon is visible at night, it is visible to half the planet. Do you really believe that only a handful of people would notice that something was wrong? What about the thousands of amateur and professional astronomers who observe the Moon virtually every night? Are they all involved in some massive conspiracy to keep quiet about what is "really" happening with the Moon?

I am not trying to make anyone look stupid. I am trying to get everyone to see reason. In short, if there was anything wrong with the orientation or visual appearance of the Moon, it would be headline news across the globe.