United States v.s. Russia?

Look, Right Now US is overstretched militarily and we couldnt undertake another action even against Iran even if we wanted to. We cut off Russians,Germans and French from Iraqi oil, which was our purpouse to involve with the middle east after WW2 to support and invest into western europe. Ok! we've cut them off BUT we dont have that oil now! nothing is working there as of right now and look who is supplying Europe with oil right now?! RUSSIA does, it's got its pipelines all over europe. Russia is sitting pretty fat right now. American soldiers are tired! I tell you that much bc I am one. I did a tour on US Kitty hawk in 2003 when we were out for like 104days without hitting any port(but it is nothing compare with the ground troops who are being deployed for 15 months!!! at the time! while Russian military is just getting, just getting, just started getting pay and NOW the goverment is building houses and barracks for its soldiers, may not be much but trust me their morale and enthusiasm is much higher then ours. Our comandos have experience and tested new weapons and tactics in the war with Iraq so have the russians in the war with Chechnya. AK-47 is still the best combat rifle there is one that in my opinion better it is Cobalt build by Israilis but we dont have it yet, and dunno when we will get it bc we are short on the budget!
Someone said that russians should be worried about getting a sandwich?!?!?! I think a lot of people in US have this problem nowdays also!!!

AS for Iran problem I think we must engage into multilateral diplomacy. More than a half of Irans population looking favorably towards US, especially young people. Anything other means to deal with Iran will just produce another generation that hates America.

my money goes on the Russians for several reasons, but starting off the obvious weakness in the U.S. number one is our thirst for black gold, all the soviets have to do is starve the U.S. of our precious gold by targeting ONLY oil tankers, once our supply of oil is stripped we will be starved and all our machinery will just be sitting ducks for the Red Navy and Airforce.... secondly is the weakness of democracy in war, the U.S. is so liberal and they HATE wars, they've proven it in the Iraq and Vietnam war, where the U.S. was the aggressor, just imagine if we were to attack the large Russian Empire... U.S. would be SOOO totally against it, everyone would prolly move to Canada.... the only way U.S. could ever go to war with Russia is if we were attacked by Russia... thirdly the U.S. millitary has been going downward since the Iraq war has really progressed, citing evidence i have a friend who just left the marines, he said that everyone is dropping out of the armed forces he said the morale has gone to pots especially with the 4081 deaths and not to mention the countless wounded and suicides as a result from the pointless war, the military has weakened, why do you think they are keeping people PAST the terms they signed up for? WHy do you think they've called up almost all the reserves? standards for a GI have dropped because they are starving for foot soldiers, the Russians dont have that problem, in fact their military has a lot more moral and pride than ours, morale and pride is the difference in the war, thats why the Russians never gave up in WW2 even when countless of their comrades were dieing, Russians are tougher and this quality is underestimated in modern warfare, but it definitly makes a huge difference.... finally, the Russian military has grown and have modernized even MORE in recent years, they are expierence a post-soviet baby boom for the first time, AND theire economy is at arate that in about a decade they will easily surpass the U.S., The U.S. better recognize this shift in global power quickly, if we ever get consumed in a war with the Russians we are dead lol excluding nuclear war, the Russian bear is bigger and stronger than ever before, and their close friend, and if the Dragon of China and the Russian Bear ever attacked America, we would be considerably be wiped off the map, the problem with us Americans, we are isolated by oceans and we dont respect people in the East, we think we are just the s*** and that we can just attack people while living in comfort, we would be blown away if the bear ever decided to attacked, they have the military capability and ambitions to take us over, and if they did... we'd be in the fight for our lives.... i can already hear war hawks from America b****** at this reply, but they were the ones that said we win the iraq war... and vietnam war.... and were they right? lol like i said, our cockiness is our biggest drawback, overall.... and finally we WILL be defeated by Russia in a war... period.

So how combat ready are the Russian troops? When is the last time their forces have seen major battle? Also how many practice sorties is their AF running these days? I know its more than it used to be. I'd take a military that is constantly fighting and battle tested over one that has just been sitting around anyday.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

3 things come to mind I see as problems with your theories...

1. Your theories only work if the US sits on its hands and does nothing....Does that sound like the US military?

2. Forward Projection of Force - The US is the only country that can be on your doorstep within a matter of days, bringing the fight to our enemy.

3. Battle Tested and Budgeted - The US military is not only hardened up from fighting for the last 5yrs, they have congresses wallet constantly buying new and improved weapons.

I don't see Russia and America going at it in other way than words...it would be disastrous for both, and both govts know that.

On top of the fact that at the end of the day, no matter how much carping is going on between the countres, we have common interests...were damn near allies.

reply to post by astrocreep


the US will the have nukes hidden in every corner of the world like japan south korea turkey germany poland australia england not to mention on there subs and carriers and there air force will rains hell down on there enimies and this is coming from an iranian born russian living reporter ... no bias here the russians koreans arabs and chinese dont stand a chance

reply to post by 10DeadInside10


USA would win hands down. It wouldn't even be a war, more like a slaughter. "But how can you say that? Russia is surely equal to us in every aspect!" Really? It just so happens I have evidence to support my claim. You people have no idea how powerful the USA really is.

1.) The United States Economy surpasses Russian Economy by more than 10 fold in terms of GDP. Not only is our economy so much stronger then Russia's, but we are also the world's leading producer of oil. (Look it up, it's true. US is more idependent then you think.) Sucks Russia rely's on US money, just as the rest of the world does. (China)

2.) 3.7% of our GDP goes to our defense budget, yet our defense budget is SO HUGE if you put all of the world's military budgets together you'd only match it. And that's only using 3.7% of our Economy, during WW2 we were using 30% of our GDP to fund the war effort.

3.) Even with such a small percentage of our Economy going towards military funding we are able to maintain the 2nd largest military and most well equiped military in the world. (So, not only do we outnumber them, but our equipment is FAR superior to there's)

4.) The US Power Projection Cababilities are unmatched. 11 Carrier battlegroups (Russia, by the way, only has 1 Aircraft carrier which is old. We have 22 Aircraft carriers, 11 of them nucleared powered and containing the most sophysicated weapon systems known to man). Each of those groups has enough firepower to start and end a war. It's one thing to declare a war, but in 24 hours expect US battlegroups to converge on Russia, each carrying a Marine Expeditionary Force. Russia can't fight a 2 front war! The damn country is so big, we'd use it's size against it. So you got 250,000 Marines pushing West; 250,000 pushing East; Stealth Bombers coming in from Alaska as well as the Artic and a letter saying US is pulling out its funding to the Russian Economy. All of this happens in just a couple of days. You can't manuever your people fast enough to defend against that.

5.) "What about if they nuke us?" We shot down, with a single destroyer, a sattelite from outer #ing space! Trust me, no missiles are getting through our defense systems. We have missiles designed to go after other missiles and blow them up, and all the laser weaponary we secretly have too. They'd basically ask for a death wish because we'd shoot down their missiles and then we'd just blow the # out of them.

6.) "What if they built up their #'s then declared war?" Well, we have Apaches that can single handedly take out an entire tank column. We can fire tomahawk missiles from hundreds of miles away and blow up planes, tanks, rockets, people, before they even see us. Russia wouldn't even be able to attack America, THEY HAVE NO NAVY! What are they going to do, swim?

So as I said, it wouldn't even be a war. Given Russia's size...if we went all out...I'd give it 3 weeks before we'd have complete control. Minimal casualties. F-22 would also rock the # out of that new fighter that Russia is trying to build. We'd blow those son's of bitches out of the air before they'd even see us. I don't know what the fighter is called, but I can almost gaurantee that they're using US Generation 1 stealth technology that we sold to them. Too bad that's already obsolete by our standards. God bless America.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


amen

reply to post by Arc_Angel (Guy who also made thread above)


Are you #ing kidding me? Your friend was a Marine and said that everyone is dropping out of the military? What kind of BS story is that? You clearly are one of THE most ignorant people on the face of this Earth.

1.) People aren't dropping out of the military like flies. You know how I know this? BECAUSE I'M NOT AN IGNORANT DUMB#! Down at Annapolis they have so many people wanting to become Marine Corp. Officers that they have to limit the #. Recruitments are up, we HAVE THE 2nd LARGEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD! AND OUR GUYS ARE WAY BETTER TRAINED THEN THOSE DIRTY SLAVS!

2.) America is the biggest producer of oil in the world. We get less than 20% of our oil from the Middle East. And lets just say for a minute we were actually dependent on Middle Eastern Oil, how is Russia going to get to the tankers? THEY HAVE NO AIRCRAFT CARRIERS, NEVERMIND A #ING NAVY!

3.) You said, and this is complete BS, that your Marine friend was disheartened because of the 4,000 some deaths in Iraq. Well, coming from a family with REAL Marines in it, 4,000 deaths in 5 years is pretty damn good. You have more of a chance dieing in a car accident in America then getting killed in Iraq. How are we disheartened? Our military is so badass they make 'war' safer then normal civilian life.

4.) You also said that Russian's in WW2 fought to the bitter end, despite taking heavy casualties. Do you forget so soon our island hopping campaign in the Pacific, when we were taking 1000's of casualties taking islands smaller than 5sq. miles? Oh, and don't forget who helped armed Russia during WW2. (I'll give you a hint, it's a nation that #s on all others)

5.) Russia's Economy could grow by 10% each year, and in a hundred years, it'd only match what the USA Economy is now. And good luck with that, seeing how Russia needs US aid to keep the Hammer and Sicle going.

No nation on this Earth comes close to matching the power of the US. The US already owns the world. How? Economically and Culturally. If your country is dependent on our money, we in turn control you. What could be more beautiful then people who you control who think they rule themselves?

If US and Russia are going to direct war (which is not likely, because they are afraid one of another) the outcome would be easy to predict and I am sure Russia would win. First of all, Russia has over 30% of world oil buried in its soil, and they have no intention to dig it up any time soon because they are pretty much happy with what little they are drilling now. US on the other hand almost have no oil at all and they have to rely on their colonies in Arabian countries which in case of such war would definetly rebel and leave US empty handed. Now with their economy screwed, they would be unable to continue their usual life, yet alone fight a war with Russia. Even if that didn't happen, Russia still has military supremacy (AK-47, Suhoy ...).

I have noticed that someone claims that Russia does not have the power of stealth, well in the Kosovo bombing campaign, Serbian army has done something US said was impossible, they shot down a stealth bomber (# that stealth if it can be shot down by a simple 40 year old SAM), they picked up the body and sent it to Russia. Now they had 9 years to break the secret , and if they hadn't done it by now, you are free to cut my hand off (I don't worry cause they have done it).

Now the soldiers, US soldiers are people from what they claim is the best country in the world , and they are all laid back on Hawaii and desserts, used to hot weather, and a good and steady supply of military equipment and food on the battlefield. Russians are totally different, they come from a cold country full of forests that not even they know where they end. Pretty tough environment. They also tend to screw up both theirs and enemies supply chains and we get another WW2 (After long and hard combat Russia enters the enemies capital totally destroying it)


US is economical country taking care of every little thing , while Russia is only taking care of a few big things. In the War US would be overwhelmed by problems , while Ruskies would probably just move them aside (like they usually do) and win.

Also the intelligence, US likes to brag about their technology.Just switch to Discovery channel and you have the list of all the possible enemies and know what to expect, while Russia has the "Iron Curtain" around it and Americans have no idea what to expect.


A bird is on the tree saying :" Look at me I can fly, and you can't", and there is a cat lurking in the dark without showing itself.

Who is going to eat who? I really don't think the bird will eat the cat!

PS: yeah I know US has a lot stronger army to be compared to the bird, but they show too much of themselves and I wasn't even trying to find a better example.

Ok, assuming no one goes for nukes:

- Ground battle in Russia (we invade through Georgia, the Ukraine, and Estonia) brings atrophy to American forces. Fuel shortages become apparent quickly. Supply lines don't hold. At most, we advance to the outskirts of St. Petersburg and the city formerly known as Stalingrad, before we are forced to retreat

- F-22s etc. are no match for S-400. Our fighter force is wasted and unable to provide air support

- Amphibious invasion of Vladivostok becomes a disaster. Invasion of Sakhalin Island, however, is a success

- Russia takes out oil infrastructure in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico region, as well as out strategic reserves in Louisiana

- Oil tankers from Saudi Arabia, Norway, Venezuela, etc. will be grounded due to the general threat and won't be able to supply the conus

- So the big factor in my opinion will be oil. The United States cannot continue its conventional war against Russia because it does not have the oil to fuel it

- The United States retreats from Western Russia, chased out by Russian troops. Russian troops don't continue their chasing beyond the Russian border (i.e. to Eastern Europe)

- Fifteen time zones or so away, however, Russia takes back Sakhalin and launches an invasion of Alaska

Map of the world after this whole thingy: Alaska's Russian.

Everything else the same, except if Japan, Georgia, the Ukraine, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, etc. intervened on America's behalf - then Russia will probably take pieces of those countries as punishment. i.e. Crimea from the Ukraine, small pieces of rock from Japan, and enough land from Lithuania to be able to unite Kalingrad with the Russian mainland.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by db330]

Um....i dont know what folks are smoking, but Russia's military is not a match for the US at the moment....in fact its not even close. The ONLY thing they have to keep them from being dominated is their nuke card and thats it. Their military (while on the rise again for sure) has been undertrained and underfunded for quiet a while. The US on the other hand is quite battle tested and is a machine. It decimated Iraq in less than 3 weeks.

This is a war that no one wants to see because Russia cannot win conventionally and it would go nuclear very quickly.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by princeofpeace]

I completely disagree because of oil.

In a conventional war against Russia, you must assume that all our oil imports will cease and considerable damage will be made to our domestic oil infrastructure, at least in Alaska, which is near Russia.

Sure, we'll conserve domestically to let our boys have a go at it, but we won't be able to last more than two months in a conventional war against Russia - and this is not enough time to win.

Therefore, I am confidant that Russia stands to win a conventional war against anyone in the world.

This is strange considering how less capable Russia's conventional forces are now, but it's true. And ironic.

(this can remind us why the national sport in Russia is... chess)

Russia couldnt even beat Afghanistan in a conventional war yet now they can beat anyone in the world? I dont see it.

Some People Didn't See Russia and US against each other now its more possible then ever with Russia attacking our Allies, as Far as Air Force Goes the U.S Will kick Russia's Ass with its F-22, F-16,F-15 and all of our bad ass aircraft,so it would look to be a victory by U.S if we happen to go to war.

Russian Federation Implications

en.wikipedia.org...

Russia is the world's top supplier of weapons, a spot it has held since 2001, accounting for around 30% of worldwide weapons sales[104] and exporting weapons to about 80 countries.[105] Following the Soviet practice, it is mandatory for all male citizens aged 18–27 to be drafted for two years' Armed Forces service, though various problems associated with this is why the armed forces have reduced the conscription term from 18 months to 12 since 2008, and are planning to increase contract servicemen to compose 70% of the armed forces by 2010.[6] Defense expenditure has quadrupled over the past six years.[106] Official government military spending for 2008 is $40 billion,[107] though various sources, including US intelligence,[108] and the International Institute for Strategic Studies,[102] have estimated Russia’s military expenditures to be considerably higher.[109] Currently, the military is undergoing a major equipment upgrade with about $200 billion on procurement of military equipment between 2006 and 2015.[110]

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Russia also has the second most richest billionaires in the world behind the United States, it has the worlds largest nuclear warhead stockpiles in the world, is the worlds largest nation in the world. It has the worlds largest natural gas reserves along with coal and energy supplies.

If it went to an all out war which (nobody here wants) I can tell you the U.S. would bring every living -free energy vehicle- they have out of the closet along with all of the (e.m.p weapons) you would have a war hitting you from all sides of space, the satelites armed with lasers would knock out other soviet satelites, if a war of this magnitude especially in this day an age, came out it wouldn't be with modern Technology.

Space weapons would be unleashed, imagine that you have invisible technology hitting you from every direction, the U.S. has the biggest stockpile of UFOS. We don't budget our money in less it has veracity.

You try taking away an old supplies of energy and you might just get a realisation of what is out there, through Free energy means. Nicola Tesla, gave U.S military some of the (best sophisticated technology/ weaponery) of modern day warfare. Alls it would take is one (e.m.p.) to knock out the power supplies of nation detonated in the right area.

Billions of dollars goes into the Bigger, Better, Faster program in the states, the United States uses its possom tactics wisely.

Apply (Universally) all governments keep top seceret technology locked up from their society to keep it out of public eye, but the public is also just as fair trade as anything else.

Keep in mind Michio Kaku states some of the worlds top scientists are working with some new advances in SCIENCE=Technology. From the Nations above so what gives? Didn't he say the top scientists from pretty much every top nation is working with this together.



[edit on 11-8-2008 by menguard]

Us Vs USSR.. erm. The renamed USSR (Russia)

Winner = No one

Why = Nuclear weapons would be used.

Once Nuclear weapons are used everyone looses..

Both countries economic advantage wouldn't mean jack after the nukes started landing. Industry, major population centers , Military bases, Ports etc would cease to exist. On both sides

Nuclear war = Death to everyone

If the US and Russia were to go to war you know as well as i do it would go nuclear and once it does we are all dead. If not from the initial blasts then from the radiation, Social collapse etc.. 3rd world nations who were able to stay out from under the nuclear fallout would become the new superpowers.

Cancer world wide would spike for generations killing off large portions of the worlds population.. etc etc etc..

IF ... IF .. somehow nuclear weapons were not used (Hard to imagin them not being used) then i would go with the USA as being the winner.

Why?.... Because while we may not hold the numerical superiority we hold the technological advantage. That and the fact that in some instances we do hold the numerical superiority in certain areas. IE carriers.. State of the Art combat aircraft..

If it were kept from going nuclear it would not be a easy fight for the US.. Not at all.. But in the long run we would win..

Even then i don't think there would be any True winner..... Not really. Maybe in name.. But overall it would cost millions of people their lives.. Just not worth it in my book no mater what.



.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by wolfmanjack]

The US would most certainly defeat Russia. When the USSR was decommissioned the US was still building weapons. With NATO, EU and the UN the US can defeat Russia. China won't choose sides, they would not want to get their hands dirty before the Olympics because they know it will hurt business.
China would also not want to lose their best trading partner.

If it was a fight without A-Bombs the US would win for sure. If it were a fight with A-Bombs then we all lose!

reply to post by astrocreep


Moscow is the most expensive city in the world .... if u ever go there u will see cars u have never seen before ... russia is raising u better keep up with it its not wht it used to be 15 years ago

reply to post by astrocreep


you are such an ignorant bastard. you MUST be american.
the illegal ocupation of palestine is a fact. and the only reason its kept on is because USA supports Israel so nobody even thinks to do anything about it.
and thats the reason that arabs hate americans.