Whats your problem with OWS, and why dont you help?

I have been a lurker for some time on ATS and have been reading for years about how the members of this website rant and rave about standing up against the government. I could post links to thread after thead, after thread calling for people to unite and take down the monster.

What I find ironic is now that it is starting to happen some on this site have nothing but complaints and bitterness about it. Where are you at while your countrymen are protesting. Most likely at home sitting on your couch, stuffing doritos down your throat, sucking on a pepsi and watching reruns of American Idol all day.

I believe this site used to stand for something good. We are the "conspiracy theorists" as society calls us and if anyone should back and unite OWS, it should be us. Even if they dont succeed, and they refuse to have a clear leader, at least they are trying to have themselves, and us in the process, heard. So dont be so damm negative, cynical, and sarcastic. Veterans are being shot with tear gas, rubber bullets, and beaten by the police so you can stuff doritos in your mouth, and then complain about them.

I think it isn't being supported because there is important stuff on the internet and television.Because the Holidays are here,because I have to work.dinners ready,the trash needs taken out ,the kids need attention,battlefield 3 just released ect ect
it isn't being supported because it takes energy and motivation and want,we aren't to the point where we have nothing to lose yet.

reply to post by modified device


Exactly, why bother going to a protest when you can make your feelings known on ats from your bed in your underwear. It's cold and it rains outside and it might mean i have to interact with someone who's opinions I dont like, in person.

reply to post by cheftim59


Nice example of groupthink.

"You're a member of ATS so therefore you have to think this way."

Why don't I help? Because it's a leftist movement.

And why complain about the violence. This is something OWS people want:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/ows_12.jpg[/atsimg]

because generally the OWS protests lean towards "the left," at least by the dynamics of US politics.

This, according to a majority of ATS posters, makes them "the enemy." That's... honestly all there is to it. "They don't vote for my guy, so I hope those dirty hippies are killed by some cops!"

You'll find this pattern a lot on ATS. This place bills itself as a place to discuss conspiracy theories, but generally hte only ones that gain any credence are the ones about the Evil negro-Kenyan Marxist Muslim and his and the UN's plan to Enslave White people to work for ACORN at planting trees to fight "Global Warming" in order to cover up for the actions of George Soros, the Jews, and MSNBC.

If you suggest that maybe the conspiracies have a corporate origin, well, you're a socialist marxist pig who is the enemy and must be destroyed.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I don't care who they vote for(most of them won't anyway.)

I simply don't stand next to people who are against capitalism and are vastly anti-American.

These people aren't Liberals. They are leftists. BIG difference.

Well i just happened to be in Rome last weekend for their OWS and there were a good 200k+ people there and to begin with it was like a carnival atmosphere.
The police and army prescence (in uniforms) was overwhelming - the centre of Rome was completely shut to traffic. The roads all blocked by fleets of their riot buses. They were all suited and booted and what looked like kevlar pads as well as the usual batons,shileds, gas masks etc.

It was obvious there was going to be trouble from the wrod go but we reckoned as still early afternoon we should be safe enough so we joined in the march for a while. Then the troublemakers (dressed head to toe in black) showed up and started smashing things and setting vehicles on fire.

Didnt take long before we were running away along with the vast majority as the carabineri stormed the area with tear gas and batons.

There's plenty of vid's on youtube as to what happened after but just thought I'd share a 1st hand account.

reply to post by projectvxn

If I may make a suggestion? Perhaps if the overall movement survives these growing pains and general issues with some of the troublesome elements who seem to have pulled up a chair to settle into these camps, you might consider becoming involved, if for no other reason than to insure your point of view IS represented and heard.

It really is accurate to say these camps represent all aspects of society..and yeah that includes a socialist and even self admitted communist segment. The right could use more representation. I get awfully lonely sometimes, feeling like I am a lone voice.....but the odd thing about this is, it's my fellow right leaning friends who give me more grief and headache than the 'leftists' do. It's funny how that is working out. Downright odd, in fact.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

I don't care who they vote for(most of them won't anyway.)

Bull#.

I simply don't stand next to people who are against capitalism and are vastly anti-American.

when you equate these two concepts, then you are inherently violating one or the other. Take your pick, which do you love more? A nation founded on a principle of liberty, equality, and rule by hte people, or a system designed to quash... liberty, equality, rule by the people, in the name of profit for a slender sliver of the elite? Because the two are in contention now.

Make your choice, time's almost up, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.

These people aren't Liberals. They are leftists. BIG difference.

There's not, actually. I'm not sure what you think these terms mean, but i can be pretty certain that they mean something very different from whatever your personal definitions for them are.

reply to post by projectvxn

I simply don't stand next to people who are against capitalism and are vastly anti-American.

Not wanting corporations to control and buy off the Government thus controlling congress and it's actions is not really the same as being against corporations as a concept..

They are protesting the corruption, not corporations right to exist...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I learned long ago, through my parents, that leftists use anyone they can to advance their goals, and I won't be used by collectivists. It seems the hive mentality is getting ever stronger with each passing day.

My views on things are not as cut and dry as to be solidly right wing. But that doesn't mean OWS is for me.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Bull#.

Having trouble communicating without being rude?

when you equate these two concepts, then you are inherently violating one or the other. Take your pick, which do you love more? A nation founded on a principle of liberty, equality, and rule by hte people, or a system designed to quash... liberty, equality, rule by the people, in the name of profit for a slender sliver of the elite? Because the two are in contention now. Make your choice, time's almost up, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.

No, they aren't. What is in contention is a group of people who want things handed to them by government because some collectivist convinced them all that their liberal arts degree is a human right, and that if they smoke a pack of cigarettes a day for 30 years and get cancer that it is their right for others to pay for their mistakes.

There's not, actually. I'm not sure what you think these terms mean, but i can be pretty certain that they mean something very different from whatever your personal definitions for them are.

There's not? Are you saying radical communists and radical socialists are exactly like liberals? interesting.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by projectvxn

 

I simply don't stand next to people who are against capitalism and are vastly anti-American.

Not wanting corporations to control and buy off the Government thus controlling congress and it's actions is not really the same as being against corporations as a concept..

They are protesting the corruption, not corporations right to exist...

Tell that to all the people who are begging for the reincarnation of Marx.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I learned long ago, through my parents, that leftists use anyone they can to advance their goals, and I won't be used by collectivists. It seems the hive mentality is getting ever stronger with each passing day.

My views on things are not as cut and dry as to be solidly right wing. But that doesn't mean OWS is for me.

Fair enough. I appreciate the fact you can articulate the reasons behind rejecting the OWS concept and movement without getting personal about it. That seems to be a growing rarity these days as the polarization just tops the charts. I am sure if OWS can actually go the distance for time and determination, it will bring change though. How much and how dramatic remains to be seen.

At some point, I share your concerns that a tendency to go overboard to the left ...to be generous... will become an issue. I've no doubt the right will counter-balance the change that happens and bring truth to the belief that America really can work, in the end, despite everyone having very different ideas of what 'working' means.

reply to post by projectvxn

Tell that to all the people who are begging for the reincarnation of Marx.

Seems you paint EVERY protester with the same brush..

I just don't see them as you do and understand their grievances as I see them..

Simple case of differing opinion I guess.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It's a group of leftists who have managed to sucker in a few people that aren't totally in the bag for ridiculous concepts like forced redistribution of wealth.

I, like many others, hate corporate socialism. I hate socialism in general. I believe, and history has proven, that in the end all you get is equal suffering in return for unequal effort.

They are now complaining about police brutality. While I have seen things that i find disturbing I want people here to understand that it is not all uncalled for. As a matter of fact, I'm guess much of it is justified:


Counting down and then rushing the police line. THEN when the police respond to their aggression it's brutality? How much of this is actually going down this way and we are expected to believe that ever aggressive action by law enforcement is simply brutality?

There's little credibility in this movement as far as I'm concerned. It simply doesn't represent me.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Having trouble communicating without being rude?

Well, what would you prefer? "Good sir, I find your statement to be utterly unconvincing; Indeed, i believe that it is wholly fabricated from untruth! Your every statement up to this point is even in direct counter to the one you just made, and i truly believe that you are speaking falsely in order to, as the servants say, "cover your ass."

I'll just go get my monocle and a cup of earl grey.

No, they aren't.

I'm afraid they are, project. Would it be worth my time to explain to you how I arrive at this conclusion, or will you just stick cotton in your ears?

What is in contention is a group of people who want things handed to them by government because some collectivist convinced them all that their liberal arts degree is a human right, and that if they smoke a pack of cigarettes a day for 30 years and get cancer that it is their right for others to pay for their mistakes.

Remember, you're supposed to be trying to convince me that you're not an ignorant boob. You're driving in reverse on that score. Want to turn this morass of blithering talking points into an actual argument, or are you happy where you are?

There's not? Are you saying radical communists and radical socialists are exactly like liberals? interesting.

Are you saying all leftists are radical communists and... Okay, honestly? "Radical socialist" just demonstrates your own ignorance. "I DEMAND WE SORT OF GO HALFWAY!" - yeah, doesn't really work, does it?

Learn what words mean before you use them, please. I know it's hard, you've been trained to use these words as nothing more than slurs and substitutes for the old seven words you can't say on TV... but they actually have defined meanings, and if you stopped flinging them around like they mean whatever the hell you want them to mean, and instead learned the actual definitions, you might get somewhere.

reply to post by projectvxn


Marx?

Really?

Marx?



Dude. marx is so 1867. Get with today. man! Just 'cause your owners stopped listening doesn't mean we stopped talking, you know.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Tell that to all the people who are begging for the reincarnation of Marx.

Seems you paint EVERY protester with the same brush..

I just don't see them as you do and understand their grievances as I see them..

Simple case of differing opinion I guess.

No it isn't.

Flying Che flags, communist propaganda, speakers, agitators, and redistributionists.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

No thanks.

reply to post by projectvxn

Counting down and then rushing the police line. THEN when the police respond to their aggression it's brutality? How much of this is actually going down this way and we are expected to believe that ever aggressive action by law enforcement is simply brutality?

Well if you barricade people in like animals then I believe you must expect them to react..
Fact is that's probably what the police are counting on..

What "right" do the police have to barricade peaceful protesters???