US Marine in critical condition after OccupyOakland

reply to post by nenothtu

I can't speak for everyone. Here's my take. These "protestors" are the same people who railed against the military for being "tools". Now THEY want to make them "tools" again, but for their side this time.

This is a point well taken.

reply to post by Xcathdra


That split is pretty obvious. I noticed that early on and raised many concerns for me. I have 3 friends on the NYPD who I chat with regularly and they were even briefed on this for distinction purposes from what I understand. They are all being lumped into one group overall though when there is a response. Even I slip up and generalize in my posts sometimes and do not intend to.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

The titles and articles are a bit premature since the police have not been officaly listed as the cause of his injuries. Hence the reasons its under investigation. The Rubber Bullet claims are inaccurate since Oakland PD does not use rubber bullets at all.

Let the independant investigation run its course before we do the 100 meter rush to judgement.

No, X.....you ask too much.



Careful, now, in this thread or you might be called a "book" licker like I was.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by jlv70

 

there is the possibility the item that hit the marine did not come from the police. Apparently rocks and glass bottle were being thrown along with paint and other items.

All that aside the Marines status has been upgraded.

Yes, a protestor would throw a bottle or rock at someone who was defending them...

And the must have the arm of a professional baseball pitcher. Really? You can do better than this....

edit on 27-10-2011 by v1rtu0s0 because: (no reason given)

By doing better are you refering to the 100 meter rush to judgement that is so common place on this website its not even funny? When you have people that close to a police line, with people still throwing items at the police, a person doesnt need to have the arm of a baseball pitcher to hit a person, let alone do damage. The head is by far the one part of a body that when injured looks a lot worse that it is, espceially whe n it comes to blood and bruising.

Medical issues aside, items were being thrown. Lets take you out front and we will lob glass bottles and rocks at your head and when we hit we can compare the damage.

How does that sound?

/end sarcasm

reply to post by NightGypsy


lol just take it with a grain of salt and keep pushing on... Every once in a while the other side of the fence gets it wrong, as I think they have with this case, and we get to point it out to them.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Lets take you out front and we will lob glass bottles and rocks at your head and when we hit we can compare the damage.

How does that sound?

Originally posted by DCPatriot

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
The irony of the whole thing, is that the same people that are putting these vets on a pedestal, BEFORE the OWS protest, were the same people calling them monsters, baby killers, tools of the gov.....

Not to mention stupid, ignorant, oh and lets not forget that only people who are the bottom rung in America join the military......



Oh wait, unless its for OUR cause............

Really, some people make me want to vomit until i have a brain hemorrhage.......

Yeah, it's kind of like how the Tea Party didn't like their movement being smeared, and yet that's exactly what they're doing to the Occupy Protests. Or you know, the Tea Party complaining about Occupy Protestors breaking the law (i'm not talking about the public indecency thing) when the original Tea Party (aka what their movement is based) also broke the law. Or you know, complain about the occupiers threatening violence when the tea partiers did the same. I guess it's only a double standard when it's on the side that doesn't agree with you.

edit on 27-10-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

Please provide links to anything relating to "violence" by the Tea Party. Or....breaking of the law.

The OWS movement is endorsed by the National Communist Party, The American Nazi Party, and the Iranian Government.

Please peddle your bullsh*t someplace else if you're going to accuse without proof.

Here's a few examples:



blog.wallack.us...

I stated that the original tea party broke the law. You should read posts before you reply to them. Also,
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by DCPatriot

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
The irony of the whole thing, is that the same people that are putting these vets on a pedestal, BEFORE the OWS protest, were the same people calling them monsters, baby killers, tools of the gov.....

Not to mention stupid, ignorant, oh and lets not forget that only people who are the bottom rung in America join the military......



Oh wait, unless its for OUR cause............

Really, some people make me want to vomit until i have a brain hemorrhage.......

Yeah, it's kind of like how the Tea Party didn't like their movement being smeared, and yet that's exactly what they're doing to the Occupy Protests. Or you know, the Tea Party complaining about Occupy Protestors breaking the law (i'm not talking about the public indecency thing) when the original Tea Party (aka what their movement is based) also broke the law. Or you know, complain about the occupiers threatening violence when the tea partiers did the same. I guess it's only a double standard when it's on the side that doesn't agree with you.

edit on 27-10-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

Please provide links to anything relating to "violence" by the Tea Party. Or....breaking of the law.

The OWS movement is endorsed by the National Communist Party, The American Nazi Party, and the Iranian Government.

Please peddle your bullsh*t someplace else if you're going to accuse without proof.

Here's a few examples:



blog.wallack.us...

I stated that the original tea party broke the law. You should read posts before you reply to them. Also,
en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 27-10-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

You show graphics of a couple of signs about the famous quote of Thomas Jefferson?

THAT'S the "proof"?

Show me links where the Tea Party...which first appeared in force on 9/12/2009 in Washington DC broke the law and/or did violence.

You can't.

And we left the place cleaner than we found it.

So...it would seem that it's you that should read the Wiki link again.

reply to post by AnonymousFem


It was absolutely awful, what happened. I am years passed being mad about the abuses that occur in this country. I hope he lives. The very fact that he got hit, was lying there in the street with the cops behind barricades just standing there, people who tried to help him getting flashed for absolutely NO reason, this should be the last straw. If nothing else shows the people of this country how far lost we are, then I really don't know what will.

"THIS" Lets get tough on the pesky 99% campaign shows just how big headed and over confident the 1% have got,


Its going to go bang in there own fat chops soon

Originally posted by DCPatriot

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Here's a few examples:



blog.wallack.us...

I stated that the original tea party broke the law. You should read posts before you reply to them. Also,
en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 27-10-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

You show graphics of a couple of signs about the famous quote of Thomas Jefferson?

THAT'S the "proof"?

Show me links where the Tea Party...which first appeared in force on 9/12/2009 in Washington DC broke the law and/or did violence.

You can't.

And we left the place cleaner than we found it.

So...it would seem that it's you that should read the Wiki link again.

I stated threatening violence, which is exactly what those signs are doing. I also stated that the original Tea Party (which the current Tea Party was clearly inspired by) broke the law, in the original post as well as the second post you replied to. Once again, try reading posts before you reply to them, and the wiki link as well since you clearly didn't understand why I posted it. Also, there was really no point in talking about how you guys leave the place clean, unless you feel that that's the only good thing the Tea Party Protests have done.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by AzureSky

If there are any military in the audience, what is your view on it?
I believe that the military men/women have a bond, stronger than just any old bond. A war bond. They fought together in the war. It will incite anger among a lot of people i do believe. If this man dies, it will be the turning point i do believe. It just brings more military into the mix. And they are tougher than cops ever will be.

Veterans fought a war, and now they're fighting one at home against people sworn to protect the people.

I can't speak for everyone. Here's my take. These "protestors" are the same people who railed against the military for being "tools". Now THEY want to make them "tools" again, but for their side this time.

News flash: soldiers fight for the People. The WHOLE people, not just some mini segment of the fringe. "99%" my ass. The protestors are putting the whole People at risk at the hands of the police. It's a bad brew, but it's not an either/or situation. You are BOTH putting the People at risk.

lateral thinking.

Make damned sure you want what you're gonna get if you keep pushing this. It may not turn out to be what you hoped for.

Another thing about soldiers: since they've been made "tools" before, they've learned to recognize when that sort of manipulation is afoot.

Like now.

What are you going to do if some of them listened, and decide not to be putty in YOUR hands at the expense of the People?

This kind of crap is why we can never get together as a society.

Just because some of the protestors were against the war (even if they were just plain anti military) it doesn't mean they can never be on the same side as someone who was for it or fought in it. It's a different issue.

If I had a dime for everytime a liberal answered one of my posts with a "you watch too much Faux news" or something similar because I had a view on a certain issue they didn't agree with.

Same for conservatives, they immediately jump to the "smoke another bowl hippie" comments.

I can't be called a conservative because I support social causes, but I can't be called a liberal because I think we need to know we can afford the program before we go ahead with it.

People who tow either party line are nothing more than soundbyte spewing sheep, a free thinker can have a view on an issue that differs from his or her party of record. A real free thinker refuses a party brand altogether.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


You opened the door... I just walked through it. The dog would be down before it got to me if we want to go down that road though.

Any response to the question?

Originally posted by technical difficulties
Here's a few examples:



blog.wallack.us...

I stated that the original tea party broke the law. You should read posts before you reply to them. Also,
en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 27-10-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

Are you not familiar with history?

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. by Thomas Jefferson

God forbid people do research and actually learn about the history of this country and what our founding fathers talked about.

Taking that term and trying to portray the Tea party as violent isnt just funny, but it demonstrates a severe lack of common sense and ignorance of this countrys history.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
If this Marine dies, I'm fairly certain that WILL be the straw that breaks the camels back.

On a side note, can you imagine what things would be like if the OWS protesters brought their guns to the protests like the tea baggers did? Would we have seen this same kind of response from the police? Or would we have seen the same "tolerance" given to the tea baggers packing heat?

edit on 26-10-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)

To begin with that was in AZ. where they have an open carry law. Cal has long since given up their rights to bear arms. So they would be arrested in California and I doube if any of the left coast own guns.

The evidence that rubber bullets were used is mounting, and it would explain his injuries better than a tear gas canister.

The more I think about it he would need to be within about 20 feet of the launcher to sustain those kind of injuries from a gas canister. I was told there are more powerful launchers used by SWAT teams to breach windows from a distance, and if they do exist they would be highly innapropriate for crowd control situations for that very reason. Gas in meant to be less than lethal, having it launching at a velocity that causes thart much damage defeats that purpose.

So, did they grab the wrong launcher?

Where they using rubber bullets?

The white shirt in NYC lost 10 days vacation for spraying those women who were just sitting there, which I think is way too light. He should have lost rank at minimum. But if it turns out that they were using rubber bullets and firing at heads everyone involved in that decision making chain needs to be held accountable.

Originally posted by guitarplayer

Originally posted by Aggie Man
If this Marine dies, I'm fairly certain that WILL be the straw that breaks the camels back.

On a side note, can you imagine what things would be like if the OWS protesters brought their guns to the protests like the tea baggers did? Would we have seen this same kind of response from the police? Or would we have seen the same "tolerance" given to the tea baggers packing heat?

edit on 26-10-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)

To begin with that was in AZ. where they have an open carry law. Cal has long since given up their rights to bear arms. So they would be arrested in California and I doube if any of the left coast own guns.

Open carry is still legal in California for a couple more months.

I'm strong 2nd amendment and a conceal carry permit holder, but I never understood taking guns to rally's.

I was not aware that one could walk around Cal with a gun on your hip do you need a permit? AZ requires no permit.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
I was not aware that one could walk around Cal with a gun on your hip do you need a permit? AZ requires no permit.

It can't be loaded but you can have the ammunition on you.

If people had brought guns they would have been used, if not by the gun owner by someone who saw he had a gun and took it. The mob mentality cab get pretty primal (on both sides) so I wouldn't trust open carry to work in these protests.

They call it a concealed weapons permit for a reason, I don't want anyone to know I have it.

reply to post by GrimTroll

Well if this is not an obvious troll post -- it's sheer ignorance.

Seriously - I'm not going to shed a tear for someone who shows up to a public demonstration in such a disarray of uniform articles. He was trained how to wear that uniform - you wear it properly (especially in view of the public) or not at all.

It's bad enough he drug his military affiliation (present or former) into the mix of a politically charged atmosphere. I'm not entirely certain what that group of Veterans was doing there - but I cannot have an ounce of respect for the douche if he is going to show up in a -wrinkled- BDU blouse and cover, unbuttoned, with some logo T-shirt on under it. That is an insult to those who have wore that uniform before and after him.

Yeah - he deserved what he got.

"Blurka-Blur! Police brutality!"

Look - Americans don't know how to respect law enforcement. They start pissing themselves and crying wolf when five police offers show up to a demonstration of 50 people and stand off to the sidelines.

Then, people get it in their head that it is, somehow, okay to intimidate and threaten police officers when they outnumber said police officers. In some of the pictures posted - we see, clearly, TV crews with large cameras and boom microphones at the scene.

Do you know what that means? The people being filmed were making a scene to be filmed. That tends to be why people film said event. Further, I do not see any of the other veterans in the shots where "# is going down."

Which tells me he probably ran off to join some buddies after the horse and pony show was over, and he/they started a scene that later resulted in him getting injured.

I don't have a bit of sympathy for the guy.

That doesn't mean the officers involved are acquitted of any wrong-doing - but that I am simply not swayed by the whole "He served in Iraq and got injured by police" line.

Further, in the videos, I'm noticing a lot of gang affiliations amongst the people displaying injuries and in the lines directly confronting police. I'm not buying the "innocent civilian" line.

"But, Aim!"

Look - I'll put it to you pretty simply. Our system is designed to give the most power to local governments and the least power (but the most broad-sweeping) to the national government. It is set up so that people can establish their own rules and laws according to their own ways of life and preferences.

You are supposed to know your local representatives, rather than treat it like a student council election. You are supposed to be engaged in that process and involved. If you aren't - you are going to be sorely disappointed by anything and everything that goes on around you.

The only reason the system "has power over you" is because you give it that power. You've allowed the two-party system to wreak havoc these past several decades and allowed corporations to use government regulatory standards as a battlefield for market influence and control. You allowed systems like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and Income Security to function as a sort of protection fee (so long as you are getting a check in the mail, you'll allow the shenanigans to continue).

I'm rather new to the political process - I haven't been around much longer than two decades - and I get here to find out that y'all have royally #ed my generation over.

Am I going to go out there and protest or picket middle-aged and senior groups while calling them out on being their lack of integrity and intelligence?

No. I'm going to work through the system until it becomes impossible for me to make a reasonable living - at which point, I will ignore the system and go about doing what works. Attempts to interfere with my independence will be met with an appropriate amount of resistance - to potentially include my own personal options for lethal force - or paramilitary response (provided I have such influence).

There's no need for this protesting nonsense. It only serves to raise tensions and prompt emotional and irrational responses that only lead to further degrading the important structure of society.

I will not stand with these protesters. They do not represent the Constitution or its values. They do not represent the people I took an oath to protect. Nor do I represent the police or the "system."

I do, however, have respect for the system of government and the authority of law enforcement.

What should these protesters do if they want my respect?

Go make their little hippie commune somewhere. Pool their resources and their trades and make it happen - I would actually support legislation to declare their region/area as a separate economic entity from the U.S. and to let them act independently.

THAT is what our Constitution is about.