Take A Deep Breath, Let's Think For A Moment

I'm finding myself in a difficult position, with at least part of my foot in my mouth and I'm not really sure where to go from here. I personally find it difficult to accept conservative views, I'm a liberal and yes I got caught up on the negative aspects of the TP. It is very difficult I think, not to get caught up in the left/right, liberal/conservative, I'm right/you're wrong, we are human after all and we have centuries of manipulation to stay that way to fight against. I've been very pro Occupy and very defensive regarding it, my heart is in it. That doesn't mean there is no validity in anything conservative.

There are many commonalities at the root of both the Occupy Movement and the Tea Party Movement. My hope is that despite our extreme differences we can all come forward and demand the changes that we want. I think the time needs to be over when liberals look at a conservative issue or viewpoint and dismiss simply because it came from a conservative and vice versa. If we can focus on what is common between us and leave the rest up for debate and true political process we will start to see the changes we all crave. I hope this post serves as both an apology and a rally for support of a way forward.

we're all wrong, there is no left and right.

Originally posted by Kali74

There are many commonalities at the root of both the Occupy Movement and the Tea Party Movement. My hope is that despite our extreme differences we can all come forward and demand the changes that we want.

Herein lies the problem. Too many people want too many different things. What's at the top of the list for one guy isn't at the top for another. Too many balls of wax going on at one time.

I think the time needs to be over when liberals look at a conservative issue or viewpoint and dismiss simply because it came from a conservative and vice versa. If we can focus on what is common between us and leave the rest up for debate and true political process we will start to see the changes we all crave. I hope this post serves as both an apology and a rally for support of a way forward.

What difference does it make if you are a liberal or a conservative if people can't even decide what should be a top priority for some of these occupy movements?

It's all just too willy nilly and there is absolutely no organized leadership for these movements.

I feel ya bro.

I have done these things myself.

Sorry to those with whom I disagree.

Didn't mean to be an obnoxious ass.

I still hold my beliefs, but I will fight for your right to believe in something different.

The only thing I hold sacred above all these things,

is our Constitution. For it grants -US- these rights.

Peace. star and flag OP, good on you.

reply to post by supine

It's all just too willy nilly and there is absolutely no organized leadership for these movements.

Because it is a true by the people of the people movement, it needs to "leadership" to be slandered. If you don't know what the majority of this is about at this point you must have been living in a remote cave in Afghanistan for the past month.

Seriously, by the standards being slammed onto these people, the American revolution would have failed if those standards were applied to it.

reply to post by supine


Please don't mistake my post as a "get behind Occupy" attempt, it isn't. In honesty I wouldn't mind if that was the platform chosen but, I am more interested in something that the majority can support. I think you're wrong in that no one can decide what the top issues are.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by supine

 

. I think you're wrong in that no one can decide what the top issues are.

I truly think the first thing that should be done is term limits. For all of them. Mine, yours and theirs.

Harder to bribe someone when they're gonna be gone shortly.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters

Because it is a true by the people of the people movement, it needs to "leadership" to be slandered. If you don't know what the majority of this is about at this point you must have been living in a remote cave in Afghanistan for the past month.

Sadly, I might as well have been. What goes on in a cave in Afghanistan is probably far more organized!

Seriously, by the standards being slammed onto these people, the American revolution would have failed if those standards were applied to it.

And.....what standards would those be, exactly? There are no standards, and that is most of the problem with these occupy movments.

This is why Americans need to put aside all the labels that we are bombarded with. Left, right, liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, how in the world can anyone keep up with them. As big as our system is, these labels are all polluted and does not really reflect what the labels really are or intended to be.

Get rid of the labels and just focus on the issues and who the right person is for the job.

Personally, I do not let myself fall into any of the labels. I believe what I believe, and if I should happen to share a few common beliefs with another group, then so be it.

I understand your frustration and your difficulty. I've looked at OWS much more optimistically than my right leaning friends, and I think we too easily and readily look for what separate us.

There is broad agreement between not just the two movements but also 99% of Americans for certain reforms. People will have reasonable disagreements about the size, scope, and power of government, but I think very few people think our current campaign finance and elections structure encourages anything less than the most severe graft and corruption.

I'm seriously thinking of trying to reach in both directions with a very simple idea and start a petition. No candidate for Federal office should be able to receive a contribution from any individual in excess of $100. Campaigns would receive a greater deal of public financing support, have guaranteed air time for debates as well as a set period of time for their own advertisement. Elections would be much shorter.

As far as personal money spent on the campaign, I would think a candidate should be allowed to have their committee spend an amount equal to what they raise. No buying elections.

I don't think you can realistically limit what others choose to spend, but you can change the campaign committees so that we have a constructive process, where the emphasis becomes reaching out with policies that benefit the largest number of people, instead of those who have the most money to give.

I feel it is important to start with something basic, and then work from there. I would agree with term limits, and ending corporate personhood as well, but one thing at a time. Change, though frustrating, if not gradual will be revolutionary and history has shown that always leads to violence.

Surely then the middle ground is where every one should be headed, regardless of whether you are left or right leaning?

The middle ground is surely the only fair position?

To liken to conflict resolution, the thing to avoid is a position where you have a lose-lose situation for all parties involved. Therefore, compromise is the way forward......

Moderation is often seen as lacking principle, where in fact the principle can sometimes just be good common sense.

I tend to see many of the problems in American governance as less ideological and more structural. Remove the offending laws, institutions, or regulations, and our base system works fine.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with your OP. As much as I would like to hope that there was some middle ground somewhere that we could all agree on, at this point I'm not sure there is such a place. IMO, the current ideological differences between the left & the right are just too vast and with very few exceptions, the T.P. movement and OWS are actually polar opposites of each other.

While the T.P./GOP wants lower taxes and less government regulation, the OWS movement seems to be in favor of increasing taxes on the wealthy and strengthening government regulations. While the T.P./GOP wants to increase the the exploitation of natural resources, the OWS movement seems to favor green energy. While the T.P./GOP wants to eliminate government programs like student loans, Medicare, Social Security, etc..., the OWS movement want to strengthen and protect these programs. (hardly reflections of common ground)

While we're all tired of being robbed via corruption, I think our views as to what "corruption is" may indeed vary.

While I wholeheartedly support the OWS movement, I have no use for the Tea Party and I view their policies as destructive.

reply to post by rbnhd76
I think you are right on target. Term limits is the fastest and best way to effect change in Washington, and it is possible to achieve. Elect a president who will champion the cause, and it can be done.

Term limits are a good start. There's also some good ideas in this post. I think some of those proposals would go a very long way to ending the corruption that affects us all.

A one size fits all political ideology or party is doomed from the get go everyone has different wants and desires and when it comes to politics in general it is all about the id "i want i want".

Nobel ideal in theory but in practice to many conflict's are the reality.





This ideology was scoffed at and ridiculed that was called racist and never once was it ever called nationalist.

There are clear differences between the left and right and the neauveau extensions of TPM and OWS.

People are free to believe in whatever they want up to the individual what they want to believe one has that message and the other has a collective message and government knows best attittude.

Want to change the country that journey start's from within not at the behest of others.

reply to post by neo96


I know that we can't be utopian, not yet anyway...that's not what I'm talking about at all here. I am talking about the current multi-layered crisis we are facing and what can we as a whole do about it.

reply to post by Kali74


Honestly you and many people are caught between a rock and a hard place not too many rational thought's lately the only thing anyone can do is distance themselves from the extreme's and become the voice of sanity.

They call those moderate's and some call those independent's.

To answer not much can be done people have to want to help themselves.

Originally posted by Flatfish
Sorry, but I have to disagree with your OP. As much as I would like to hope that there was some middle ground somewhere that we could all agree on, at this point I'm not sure there is such a place. IMO, the current ideological differences between the left & the right are just too vast and with very few exceptions, the T.P. movement and OWS are actually polar opposites of each other.

While the T.P./GOP wants lower taxes and less government regulation, the OWS movement seems to be in favor of increasing taxes on the wealthy and strengthening government regulations. While the T.P./GOP wants to increase the the exploitation of natural resources, the OWS movement seems to favor green energy. While the T.P./GOP wants to eliminate government programs like student loans, Medicare, Social Security, etc..., the OWS movement want to strengthen and protect these programs. (hardly reflections of common ground)

While we're all tired of being robbed via corruption, I think our views as to what "corruption is" may indeed vary.

While I wholeheartedly support the OWS movement, I have no use for the Tea Party and I view their policies as destructive.

Alert the media, I agree with you.
While conservative groups, christian groups, constitutional groups supported the Tea Party, we have the anithesis of those (DNC, unions, CAIR, socialist groups) supporting the OWS.

I tried to find any way to support the OWS but couldn't do it. I just didn't have the commonality (is that a word?) to associate myself with those that did.