Do chistians see a prophetic "use" for Israel and the jews?

The Lord Jesus said that His enemies, who would not have Him rule over them, should be brought "hither," that is to say, to the place where He said it (Palestine), and that they should be killed in His presence. You all can fill in the blank ________________.

reply to post by Awen24

On a non-theological basis, I'd support them in that Israel is their ancient homeland, and I acknowledge not only their right to exist, but also their right to have a state of their own, on their ancestral land.

The Jews have a homeland in Southern Russia, where the people calling themselves Jews today came from. It was recognized by Stalin and given a semi-autonomous status as the official Jewish homeland. That fact has been covered up by the Zionists who just wanted to steal Palestine for themselves, the European Jews who were descended from converts to Judaism and are not by blood descent from any people who ever lived in Palestine.
Another lie that you have accepted by Satan that God allows you to fall under so He can punish you in Hell.

reply to post by Awen24

The book of Zechariah states that when Christ returns, "they will look on the one they have pierced, and mourn as one mourns for an only child". Israel is God's eternal, chosen people. That doesn't change. "God is not a man, that He should change His mind". Christ will return, and reign for a thousand years, from Jerusalem, surrounded by His people. After this comes the judgement, and a new heaven and new earth.

For one thing, all Old Testament prophecy met their fulfillment in Jesus, so there is no future fulfillment of OT prophecy.
For another thing the verse in Zechariah was about the death of Josiah, king of Judea.
All this returning, and reigning, and thousand years, and judgement is all from the Book of Revelation which is completely metaphorical, from start to finish, and not one single bit of it can be taken literally, so another delusion you are under by those who lie, and you believe it to your own destruction.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

If they don't rebuild the Temple then Christ can never return.

Because someone told you this?
Why do you believe lies. Do you worship men above God?
You need to free yourself from this delusion so you do not go to Hell.
Pray to God to forgive you of this great evil you have fallen into.
You place upon yourself innocent blood when you take the name Israel upon yourself and you will surrly pay for it with your soul.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Salvation is of the Jews, as Jesus said.

Jesus was talking about himself.
"The Jews" was first, the prophets that were recognized by the Jews, which the Samaritans did not accept.
Second, it was himself, who just so happened to be of Judean descent.
You need to accept Jesus as your savior and not rely on some people to save you, the very ones who reject Jesus.

reply to post by WarminIndy

What is the description of Jesus in Revelation? Does it not say He holds the menorah?

It's no wonder that the people who believe all this Israel tripe are so amazingly ignorant of the Bible.
Do you just accept everything people tell you?

Originally posted by Noey777
Let me simplify this for you , the only difference between us is the question of the Messiah , that being said God the Father is quite clear that he still loves His children and His land . god also makes ot quite clear that anyone who is against Israel is against God Himself .

Because someone in church told you this, that is why it is so "clear"?
People, such as whoever wrote Revelation, were big on geography but I doubt God cares about a bit of land and I find that ridiculous. God cares about all the people of the earth and not one particular group.
Rejecting Jesus is the only important thing and overrides every other consideration.
Those place-names are just bit of allegory to bring certain images to mind and not to be taken literally.

Originally posted by Noey777
reply to post by bogomil

 

Bogomil the troll , you opine on a lot of these forums only to spew your hate , this makes you a troll .

And so how is your behavior better?
I would say it looks to me that you are just taking a partisan position, where you would not be concerned if it was going in the other direction, as evidenced by your own post.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Salvation is of the Jews, as Jesus said.

Jesus was talking about himself.
"The Jews" was first, the prophets that were recognized by the Jews, which the Samaritans did not accept.
Second, it was himself, who just so happened to be of Judean descent.
You need to accept Jesus as your savior and not rely on some people to save you, the very ones who reject Jesus.

John 4:20-24
Our fathers worshiped in this mountain; and you say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus was not saying here anything about replacing the Jews or nullifying their covenant with God. What was she worshiping if I might ask? She was very clearly worshiping the same God because Jesus did not mention another deity anywhere in this passage. So she was worshiping God, but Jesus told her it was not enough, that she did not even know what she was worshiping. He says here "WE KNOW WHAT WE WORSHIP". Jesus says anything outside of that was not true.

The Father seeks such as to worship Him in spirit and in truth, that was something that woman had not understood before. But Jesus did not say here He was bringing a different religion, but a different way of worshiping the Father.

Jesus says of the religion of the JEWS of which He was sent to and came from, that THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WORSHIP. If you choose to continue to try to find salvation outside of the Jewish identity of Jesus Christ, then you do not know what you worship. A different god has come to you to convince you of salvation outside of what Jesus says.

You simply cannot worship the Father in Spirit and in truth if you do not know what you worship. The Christian God is supposed to be the same God the Father as the Jews. No matter how you slice Him, dice Him, spin Him or twist Him, it is supposed to be the same God whose word is established forever and who does not change. God's covenants are forever. The covenant with Abraham, is forever. The covenant with Moses is forever, and the covenant made with us through Jesus is forever. And God established His covenant with us through Jesus Christ is founded upon the covenants made with Abraham and Moses. God honors His covenants, and it behooves us to honor those covenants He made with the Jews.

If you are looking outside the forever covenants, then you are worshiping a different god.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

What is the description of Jesus in Revelation? Does it not say He holds the menorah?

It's no wonder that the people who believe all this Israel tripe are so amazingly ignorant of the Bible.
Do you just accept everything people tell you?

It is amazing that you know so little about me. Why are you assuming I am ignorant of the Bible? Because I do not agree with you? Tell me something, have you ever been in my house to study the Bible with me? What church did I grow up in? Where did I study theology?

Can you name one personal thing about me without assuming? And this so-called "Israel tripe" is clear anti-Semitism with the mask of Christianity. You worship a different god much as the Greeks in Athens did, you have a monument to the Unknown God, whom you do ignorantly worship. You worship without knowing, without intimate understanding or relationship with. You worship with words you do not even understand. It is a different god.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

If they don't rebuild the Temple then Christ can never return.

Because someone told you this?
Why do you believe lies. Do you worship men above God?
You need to free yourself from this delusion so you do not go to Hell.
Pray to God to forgive you of this great evil you have fallen into.
You place upon yourself innocent blood when you take the name Israel upon yourself and you will surrly pay for it with your soul.

And where is your evidence to prove such a statement

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

And where is your evidence to prove such a statement

That God punishes evildoers, you want proof for that?
My evidence is biblical, so if you do not accept that, then I have no other "proof".
If you do not believe in God and a judgement beyond this life, then it is not in my power to make you believe.
You need to pray to God for Him to send you His Spirit so you will believe in Him.

Originally posted by Noey777
reply to post by bogomil

 

Bogomil the troll , you opine on a lot of these forums only to spew your hate , this makes you a troll .

It must have taken you hours to compose such a deep post, and I hope you didn't blow the fuse between your two braincells doing it.

What your limited intelligence apparantly still hasn't grasped is, that I'm on a rampage presently, where I have lowered myself to the standard ideocy-level of the average christian extremist, and from where I can be alost as imbecile as them (quite reaching the total brain-death of the christian zombie is beyond me).

A 'troll', ......better than being an idiot like you.

reply to post by WarminIndy

It is a different god.

True.
I believe in the universal God.
You believe in a territorial god.
I believe in the God who loves all the people of the world.
You believe in a god who cares for only a select genetically distinguished few.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

If they don't rebuild the Temple then Christ can never return.

Because someone told you this?
Why do you believe lies. Do you worship men above God?
You need to free yourself from this delusion so you do not go to Hell.
Pray to God to forgive you of this great evil you have fallen into.
You place upon yourself innocent blood when you take the name Israel upon yourself and you will surrly pay for it with your soul.

And where is your evidence to prove such a statement

Why are you off on an 'evidence' trip? You wouldn't recognize evidence even if it was presented to you in capital neon-letters. The only reference-frame you have is if something agrees with your insane doctrines, in which case it's 'true', or disagrees with your doctrines, in which case it's 'false'.

Don't pride yourself with the ability to think. You can only relate from your base of indoctrinated zombi'ism.

reply to post by WarminIndy

God, but Jesus told her it was not enough, that she did not even know what she was worshiping. He says here "WE KNOW WHAT WE WORSHIP". Jesus says anything outside of that was not true.

The Bible that the Jews used at that time, meaning the Torah, was identical with the one the Samaritans used. The difference was in the other books, ones the Jews used, which the Samaritans did not.
For example, the Story in the Gospel, where Jesus stands up in the synagogue and reads of the time of restoration which he said was fulfilled by him, those passages would not have been available to read from in a Samaritan place of worship. This leads me to believe that salvation is not in the Torah, but in the promise of a salvation, which people should be able to recognize in the person of Jesus.
Jesus died in such a way that could only be done by someone who was somehow at the same time, a god, to break all the covenants by every god, ever made. This is how we have this thing called the New Testament, where its name comes from, the new covenant. If you (I mean this in a general sense) are a Christian, it would be based on a belief in Jesus, where the entire story of Jesus comes from this single set of books. This book, by name, is the description of this new testament, in Jesus' blood, which replaces all the old promises with better ones.

If you are looking outside the forever covenants, then you are worshiping a different god.

Right, I worship the True God, while you worship what Paul warned against, which is the worship of angels, which the NT explains were the ones who gave the Law to Moses. Jesus is greater than those angels and is the new law-giver.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
The Lord Jesus said that His enemies, who would not have Him rule over them, should be brought "hither," that is to say, to the place where He said it (Palestine), and that they should be killed in His presence. You all can fill in the blank ________________.

This is really a sad fantasy and I hope should be a wake-up call to you of the depth your soul has sunk in pursuit of this demon-god you believe in.
I hope you see how evilly you look upon your fellow man, and how far astray you have been led by Satan.
For the sake of your soul, pray to the True God, who is above territorial squabbles, who is Lord of the entire universe, who sent His son to die for those who you gloat over their destruction.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

God, but Jesus told her it was not enough, that she did not even know what she was worshiping. He says here "WE KNOW WHAT WE WORSHIP". Jesus says anything outside of that was not true.

The Bible that the Jews used at that time, meaning the Torah, was identical with the one the Samaritans used.

edit on 26-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Jesus read from the Book of Isaiah. That was the same book that Philip expounded to the Ethiopian eunuch. The Book of Isaiah is exactly the same word for word as the Jewish Bible. The Book of Isaiah was also found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. So what Jesus read, what Philip taught, what the Christian reads is exactly the same as the Jewish Bible now.

So you are reading the same Torah as the Jews and Samaritans. So what is the problem with what they are reading?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

It is a different god.

True.
I believe in the universal God.
You believe in a territorial god.
I believe in the God who loves all the people of the world.
You believe in a god who cares for only a select genetically distinguished few.

Actually no, you believe in a dispensational god. By your own posts in threads, you believe the rest of the world, except you, is going to hell.

Think about this though, you claim a universal god who loves all people of the world....except the Jews. Your god of universality is not the same identity of the God of the Bible. And I do recall the God of the Bible saying "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated."

Perhaps your god can go ask God why He hates Esau. Does your universal god also love space aliens?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

And where is your evidence to prove such a statement

That God punishes evildoers, you want proof for that?
My evidence is biblical, so if you do not accept that, then I have no other "proof".
If you do not believe in God and a judgement beyond this life, then it is not in my power to make you believe.
You need to pray to God for Him to send you His Spirit so you will believe in Him.

I didn't see you back any statements up with scripture. What scripture can you point to that says they are not going to rebuild the temple? You do do know that is what the Jews are getting ready for don't you?