Veteran Against War With Iran Avatar

I want to as the vets of all kinds here on ATS if they would be willing to wear an avatar that basically means this:

"War is an admission of failure by elected representatives. It has come in to question, the legality of the current wars being waged in the middle east and abroad. The American people are ready to hear the truth. Pending universal transparency, or 100% inscrutible proof, we do not support further wars. This immediately concerns Iran, but also calls into question past, present and undisclosed wars."

At least, that is what it would mean to me. Ny heart aches for my country for the very fact so many question it's integrity. I have had my integrity challenged, and the US government is backed into a corner. Be the guardians of liberty I served unquestioningly even when I disagreed with the campaign I served in. I never felt my integrity was compromised, not once.

Please be of, for and by the people.
We need you to be just and true.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


I have no great love for Iran's leadership; but we're being LIED into a war by a bloodthirsty, greedy dictator (Hint: He isn't Iranian.) Preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons is VERY high on my list of priorities, but there is NO honor in starting a war based on a lie, and leading our brave fighting men into what promises to be a bloodbath based on that lie is criminal.

As far as the avatar, do you have a template in mind?

reply to post by sbctinfantry

I'm not a vet but my brother and best friend are and i am in totall support of everything you have said.
My mate would never agree with some of the foul BS going on i the world, he is just serving to the best of his ability, which is extremely high.
My Brother, well, he does his best kidding, really he is not an evil person.

It's the men like you sir, the ones still serving, that are going to be the saviours of places like America as they will not sit idly by while ANY tyrant from any country tries to harm their fellow citizens.

Kudos.

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

"War is an admission of failure by elected representatives. It has come in to question, the legality of the current wars being waged in the middle east and abroad."

Why on earth would I say something like that? That's just disrespectful dude. In other words you are telling me to say that I think the wars me and my buddies fought in and my friends died in, were illegal and a result of #ty elected officials.......essentially saying my friends died for no reason? Are you insane? I love my country so much I was and still am willing to die for it and I would like believe my friends died and I killed for a reason, a good reason, FOR the people and FOR my government....not because of stupid people making mistakes. Honestly you can take that nonsense and stick it right up your as#@.

OIF was an illegal war, brought about by the lies of our "#ty politicians." I'm a Marine, and MY brothers died in that unnecessary war. If you want to talk about insanity, fighting a war for no good reason, when our country is not in ANY danger, is the very definition my friend.

reply to post by billy197300


I am a Marine vet, non combat, I am so glad that I did not go over to Iraq or Afghanistan and fight these stupid wars that are based on lies. I have many friends that have lost their lives over there fighting for what? I want you to name 3 things that have been positive from US being over "there". I can tell you these from facts. The export of opium out of Afghanistan has increased dramatically, we have slaughtered over 1 million! Iraqi civilians, and we have lost over 5,600 US Soldiers/Troops. WHAT THE *SNIP* ARE WE DOING IN IRAQ? WHAT THE *SNIP* ARE WE DOING IN AFGHANISTAN?!?!?! I have so many friends *SNIP* up in the head from what they did and saw over there. We went over there?

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

I am saying that the military, like politics, is for the people. They both ultimately answer to the people. Why should we watch the triangle of power grow large on one side and break the others? The people demand answers, the government owes it an answer. I have, and will continue to support my government, but I swore an oath to our Constitution. As far as the government is concerned, it's an inability to withold disclosure.

I want my brothers to have the glory a victory against the enemy, and the people want the government to prove it as well. Before they enter into a contract to lose sons and daughters for that cause we all envision , they want disclosure.

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

Quote Removed By Mod

I really can't believe what I am reading here. I REALLY just cant understand. Your a marine and your brothers died in the war.....and it was for no good reason, your saying your buddies gave their life for no reason? WHAT THE *SNIP* IS WRONG WITH YOU? Do you really not see how utterly disrespectful you are being to them right now?

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

edit on 10/20/2011 by semperfortis because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by billy197300

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

"War is an admission of failure by elected representatives. It has come in to question, the legality of the current wars being waged in the middle east and abroad."

Why on earth would I say something like that? That's just disrespectful dude. In other words you are telling me to say that I think the wars me and my buddies fought in and my friends died in, were illegal and a result of #ty elected officials.......essentially saying my friends died for no reason? Are you insane? I love my country so much I was and still am willing to die for it and I would like believe my friends died and I killed for a reason, a good reason, FOR the people and FOR my government....not because of stupid people making mistakes. Honestly you can take that nonsense and stick it right up your as#@.

OIF was an illegal war, brought about by the lies of our "#ty politicians." I'm a Marine, and MY brothers died in that unnecessary war. If you want to talk about insanity, fighting a war for no good reason, when our country is not in ANY danger, is the very definition my friend.

I really can't believe what I am reading here. I REALLY just cant understand. Your a marine and your brothers died in the war.....and it was for no good reason, your saying your buddies gave their life for no reason? WHAT THE FU#$K IS WRONG WITH YOU? Do you really not see how utterly disrespectful you are being to them right now?

What I'm saying is THEY DID NOT HAVE TO DIE AT ALL! It's one thing to die defending your country; it's quite another to die for a lie. Bush lied about everything that led us into that war, and then he JOKED about it.



THAT my brother, is disrespect.

Originally posted by billy197300

Holy crap I am glad I never had to serve much less fight with any of you guys. Why the hell did any of you join the military in the first place? Seriously, WHY? How can you sit there behind your fu@#ing computers and disrespect fallen soldiers and marines like this? It's sh#$tbags that don't believe in what they are doing and don't want to be there that get GOOD marines and soldiers killed. You people should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm going to bed, but I want to leave you with one thought:

“The soldier, above all other people, prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.” - Douglas MacArthur

BTW, I don't think you ever served. If you did, you'd know how horrible war really is, and that avoiding unnecessary conflict is the highest aspiration of any true fighting man.

reply to post by billy197300


Calm down! You are getting angry at people for having an opinion. Just take a breather. No need to get so upset.

No one is trying to disrespect anyone. All that is being said is that the wars such as the war in Iraq were based on lies. This is a fact. And it is being said that they find it sad that these people died.

I agree, it is sad that they died. They did die fighting for what they believed in. I find it sad that they were tricked though. We were all lied to about the reasons we went over there. And I find it heart breaking that these soldiers died fighting for what they believed in, and the government could not even give them the respect of being honest with them about the reasons we were going over there.

Now, I am not a veteran nor do I ever plan to join the military. But if I were I would wear an avatar as suggested by the OP. I hope I never have to know the horrors of war on a personal level...

I hope I never have to lose some one in a war only to find out that they were lied to as to why we went over there... That is sad.

No one is disrespecting the soldiers. They are disrespecting the ones that sent them over there, if anything... But I agree with what was said before. The disrespect comes in when our government lied to it's soldiers. That is very disrespectful to all soldiers, living and dead. It was disrespectful to send our brothers and sisters to fight and die, when they did not have to do so.

Don't you see? People died and they did not have to! This is so sad and disrespectful to these soldiers, their family and to this country as a whole.

You have every right to be angry! I am angry too! But you are taking your anger out on the wrong people. Everyone in this thread has the utmost respect for vets and those who died.... They were lied to my friend. They died defending us all and fighting for our country... But they didn't have to.

I am angry because they were used. Lied to and ultimately destroyed, because of a lie.... That breaks my heart and fills me with anger at the ones who lied to them. It truly does.

May those who died, rest in peace.

Originally posted by billy197300
I enjoy reading about a good conspiracy just as much as the next guy, but, you motherf#$rs have taken it too far this time! You not talking about a possible fairytale conspiracy now, your talking about REAL LIFE soldiers and marines that died for what they believed in! How fu@#king dare you sit there and disrespect dead soldiers and marines like this! I can't believe this kind of sh#$ is coming from my fellow vets. I have never been this angry in my life, your a bunch of sh#$bags!

edit on 20-10-2011 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)

Your anger is misplaced my friend. Believing that the war was illegal, and brought on by bad people making bad choices has absolutely no bearing on the respect given to those who served and fell. I too am a vet, and I revere those who die for our country.

As a soldier you serve faithfully, as you swore to, without question. If you are sent to war under false pretenses there is no dishonor for you. You stood and served as asked, as promised. The real disrespect comes from the men behind the curtain who's plans and schemes knowingly put soldiers in harm's way (and brought war to an entire nation).

Sadly, history shows us that all too often armies are the pawns of the Elite. In the past to secure more land or sell more guns, today to exploit more oil...the story remains the same.

reply to post by billy197300


""War is an admission of failure by elected representatives. It has come in to question, the legality of the current wars being waged in the middle east and abroad." Why on earth would I say something like that? That's just disrespectful dude."

Truth hurts. Brush up on principles of Nuremberg.. might be useful to you one day.

deoxy.org...

Crimes against peace:
Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

War crimes:
Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave-labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory, murder or ill treatment of prisoners of war, of persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhuman acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.

Principle VII

Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principles VI is a crime under international law.

Originally posted by OldCorpPreventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons is VERY high on my list of priorities, but there is NO honor in starting a war based on a lie, and leading our brave fighting men into what promises to be a bloodbath based on that lie is criminal.

That is so typical. Why would anyone, you (US), Russia or whoever else have any right to prevent some country from getting nuclear weapons? You need to dismantle your own ones, or at least prove that you are willing to!

Such hypocrisy, sigh.

reply to post by thereisnologic


So typical? Hypocrisy? Have you not heard of the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty?

Both the US and Russia ( Among a total of 189 states who are a part of this treaty ) have reduced the number of nuclear weapons and worked towards peaceful usage of Nuclear energy because of the Nuclear Non-proliferation act.

This act has three pillars. Proliferation, disarmament and peaceful use of Nuclear energy.

en.wikipedia.org...

Does that prove it for you?

How about the Nuclear arms reduction pact between the US and Russia?

www.spacedaily.com...

I hope you are okay with it, if some of us are not crazy about the government of Iran wanting nuclear weapons. After all, we are all entitled to our opinion.

But hey, here is to every country getting rid of them all, for good!

Cheers

reply to post by billy197300


I don't think anyone is intentionally suggesting that they died for nothing. They died serving their country and their people. They joined for a reason, an ideal and they died for it as well. This is possibly the highest honour a man can have.

The issue that most here seem to have is the Non-military or the highest level, political-military people who have lied to and cheated the soldiers themselves.

When deployed a soldier thinks of his mates, the men fighting along side him/her. the priority is to watch each others backs and bring everyone home again.

This is not always the priority of the politicians and highest level generals giving the orders.
This is wrong and it is an insult to the brave men and women that serve.

The profanity and censor circumvention stops now

Clear?

Semper

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Yes, but there is almost no improvements. That treaty is, imho, just as bully in high school. Strong vs Weak, Russian/US/UK etc have it so they can bully rest of the world.

Dont get me wrong, I am all against nuclear weapons. But as long as so many countries have them there is absolutely no reason to bully someone else and declare they should not have them.

To me its same whether US, Russia, China, Iran or Israel have it, all it takes is one wrong decision to screw big part of the world.

Hope that clears it up.

But back on the topic...
I'm not from US but I really hope you don't go to war with Iran, I think your nation has been subdued to lies too many times allready and Iran on top of everything would just ruin you even more.