Occupy Wall Street vs Tea Party...The proof is in the polls!

Originally posted by jibeho
These poll figures couldn't possibly be related to the media bias for the movement in the MSM. The front page newspaper stories hailing these people as heroes. The repeated cry that these protesters are victims of something/anything. The positive news coverage and the omission of the other side of the protests.

Remember the contrast to the the MSM coverage of the Tea Party Rallies? They were called mobs, crazy lunatics, racists etc by the same talking heads in the MSM outlets.

I have yet to hear NBC cover the anti Semitic rants at the protests.

As the protests enter their fourth week, centered around Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park, several videos of participants spewing anti-Semitic rhetoric have surfaced, sparking new concerns about the groups and ideological positions represented at the protests. In addition, there are inexorable ties between the Occupy Wall Street movement and the “Arab Spring” protests threatening geopolitical stability in the Middle East. According to an undercover investigation conducted by National Review columnist Charles C.W. Cooke, protesters — including Danny Cline, who has emerged as a social media figurehead of sorts for the movement on YouTube and other forums — have routinely spewed anti-Israel and anti-Semitic messages. Cline has produced obscenity-laden diatribes against the perceived injustices of capitalism, and in one video, he is seen berating an elderly Jewish counter-protester, calling him a “bum,” mocking the man by asking him if he speaks English, and telling him to “go back to Israel.” Cooke says that Cline also shouted the “n-word” at the gentleman, and has been a fixture of the protests from their inception.

You won't hear it because it makes the OWS look bad

www.thenewamerican.com...

here is just one example

and this

wow, you found 3 examples of people who voices their views, there is no censorship there at all. So you pick 3 people out of 200,000 (probably more) across the globe?
Lol, general assumptions are awsome.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Why are you comparing a protest/movement that has made it known they are not a political party and they will never affiliate with any kind of political party nor will they ever be a political party..... To a political party?

They are not in competition with each other.

edit on 14-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

Technically the Tea Party never stated aliance with a particular party, they just made it blatently apparent...

reply to post by AzureSky

wow, you found 3 examples of people who voices their views, there is no censorship there at all. So you pick 3 people out of 200,000 (probably more) across the globe?
Lol, general assumptions are awsome.

Over the years, I've gained something of a talent for trawling. The funny thing is... when you start pushing the buttons on many people supportive of OWS (especially here on ATS), the issue of Israel or "Jewish Bankers" comes up.

I would imagine that, even with that forewarning of what I'll do to you - you will end up allowing me to piss you off to the point where you start crying about Jewish Bankers or Israel.

It's a rather common theme amongst these types, for some reason or another.

reply to post by AzureSky


Censoring?? Do you know what censoring is. I think the MSM is censoring not me.

I've read about these incidents and shared what I read. If this were a tea party rally those videos would be on the Big 3 networks tonight at 6:30. The racism accusations flew at the Tea Partiers and yet know video coverage ever surfaced from those rallies. However, I have produced 3 videos that reflect an anti semetic view.

Sure there are rotten apples in every group however the anti Jew anti Israel Pro Palestine movement always seems to raise its ugly head with this particular crowd. Just a matter of time before these movements merged.

The MSM is doing everything they can to sugar coat these protests. Some like Douche from MSNBC is actually hoping for a "Kent State Moment" at these rallies. The man actually said that. 4 people died at KSU on May 4 1970 and this guy wishes for a similar moment on national tv.

"Obviously everybody is saying, they need to kind of clarify, they need policy issues -- 'this is what we want' as opposed to.... The other thing it needs, and I don't want this to come out the wrong way. If we think -- not needs but will happen -- if you think back to the late '60s, what is the most stirring image of all of the rebellion that happened. What do we remember? Kent State. Now, I'm not saying somebody has to get killed. What will happen, there will be a climax moment of class warfare somehow played out on screen that I think will -- the same way '9-9-9', if you will, kind of simplifies a message -- that articulates this clash. So, both the real clarification in terms of policy and unfortunately some imagery says to America, and I think those are the two things..."

www.realclearpolitics.com...

Perhaps Douche should learn from the words inscribed on the May 4 memorial. "Inquire, Learn, Reflect."

Amazing

Thank god I don't care about popularity.

I care about principle.

Fooled Again kids
Toronto Canada outfit is behind the American Occupy Wall Street movement
www.adbusters.org...
www.adbusters.org...

Originally posted by Carseller4
Problem is that members of the TEA Party are more likely to vote than members of the FLEA Party.

Aside from giving the speaker a "holier than thou" moment.. exactly what purpose is this name calling serving?

Calling the OWS folks the "FLEA party" is no better than calling the TEA party folks "TEA bags" (actual name tempered for ATS mod benefit)

Seriously, isn't it possible to have a more grown up conversation without resorting to base name calling? I have seen so many people this week claiming that we need their religion because we must rise above our basic animal instincts... and yet, some of these same people are the political name callers and trolls.

Hypocrisy got us where we are today.. and it will keep us here, too.

Let me see if I got this right. We have 2 protest movements, TP and OWS, that have a problem with the way things are being done. Instead of working together YOU PEOPLE are allowing disparities in your politics to make both of these movements, well, worthless. Kudos, the PTB win again. They are banking on stupidity and they are running to the bank.

33% of orange eaters like apricots as opposed to 67% of apple eaters... The tea party is a USA political ideology set up in the form of a new type of grassroots political party, or a force (some say fringe) within a party -

The Occupy movement is a global social issue taking the form of protests world-wide. The Occupy movement is Global. Tomorrow is the mark date (10/15/11) of the United for Global Change 15october.net...

The Occupy movements are wide ranging and is included (or includes) such social change as the: Recall protests in Wisconsin, we are the 99%, Misc. Anonymous operations, moving your money from big banks to smal banks and credit unions, and other world-wide projects and protests... i'm pretty sure in Berlin, South Korea and Dublin they couldn't care less about the tea-party.

#OWS is non-partisan, non-ideological, and not only about America... Follow the movement(s) (it)themselves and not what some blogger, the media, or radio host is saying who usually is using the same old hackneyed talking points (for or against).

Hundreds of Links following the movement can be found here. Some good folks also keep adding countries and more links beyond the original post and can be found throughout the thread. (even a couple from those opposing the movement)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The comparison of a social movement to a political one is either a ploy being used by those in opposition to the movement (the corpologarchy/banksters), or is simply misinformation by someone not understanding the occupy movement.
Also, notice the same rhetoric and talking points by the anti-Occupyers is the same stale rhetoric which is always used (usually by the neo-cons). Words like Socialist, Communist, Anarchists and Hippies (words which are so last century), and names attached like, Soros, Obama, Van Jones, (et al.) which are used to stir up some kind of feelings within the people who hear such names and words and automatically rebel against them (they use your emotions against you). You'll find a lot of the 99% aren't all that big on Obama right now, and don't care what Van Jones has to say (if they even know who he is and/or listen).

The Occupy movement, or 99%, exist in over 40 countries and include over 14000 people worldwide (that is also only what is listed as official). The movement is also taking place in the cyber-space arena, throughout the artworld and throughout the system itself. There are even some businessfolk and rich guys involved as it's about the use of wealth, pandering, and corruption and not about having a business or money. Although, there is also some anti-capitalist as well. Look into the difference between wealth inequality and income inequality (getting rich is part of the American dream and western progression) -en.wikipedia.org...

The livefeeds and chats now include (in the US) New York, Seattle, Austin, Denver, Pennsylvania, Chicago, Florida, Indiannapolis and others which are being linked in all of the time. See ATS link (Occupy All Info) provided above for livefeed links.

If you think your voice is not being heard, or that the movement does not represent you, go to the streets or chats and let your voice be heard as there are no leaders and no agenda other than you also are included. If you feel it's merely a waste of time and don't care, so what then, right?

Everybody please find out for yourselves by following the movement itself. You'll see in the chats and hundreds of videos from the streets (youtube and live feeds) that it's not just Progressive liberals, or socialist/commies or whatever.

Here is a link which is an archive photo site which depicts the 99%... Don't just pick out one person and claim this is what the group is as the archive shows every point of view and type of folks. There is over one-thousand people on this page (with individual photos and attached blurbs) wearethe99percent.tumblr.com...

For some general information here is the wikipedia page concerning the Occupy movement (don't forget to also read the discussion page on wiki)
en.wikipedia.org...

You can follow these twitter feeds #OWS - #OccupyWallStreet - #Oct15 - #Occupy *fillincityhere
This really is about you, me and everybody...

Choose for yourself after you've informed yourself - This is not an antitheses to the teaparty or any other party or ideology or dogma, nor is it agenda driven other than WE the People want to be noticed and heard above the sound of money. Think outside of the political arena and dualistic ideas. The people are waking up (whether for good or bad time will tell)....

Originally posted by intrepid
Let me see if I got this right. We have 2 protest movements, TP and OWS, that have a problem with the way things are being done. Instead of working together YOU PEOPLE are allowing disparities in your politics to make both of these movements, well, worthless. Kudos, the PTB win again. They are banking on stupidity and they are running to the bank.

With all due respect, we do have two movements. Both have identified the problems.

It is the solutions as to why we differ.

Originally posted by beezzer
With all due respect, we do have two movements. Both have identified the problems.

It is the solutions as to why we differ.

And bickering, looking for the least little thing to cast the other in a bad light is the way to overcome the PTB? THEY are laughing at you both. Why can that not bee seen?

reply to post by mutatismutandis


The fact they even made a poll for "Tea Party vs OWS" is a bit disturbing. I think the biggest thing that Wall Street and the Fed are afraid of is the uniting of the two. They aren't opposing factions in some video game; they are simply two different means to the same end.

There's a reason the media wants the two polarized in to some Sharks vs Jets fantasy.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by beezzer
With all due respect, we do have two movements. Both have identified the problems.

It is the solutions as to why we differ.

And bickering, looking for the least little thing to cast the other in a bad light is the way to overcome the PTB? THEY are laughing at you both. Why can that not bee seen?

Fine. I agree. Have the OWS movement endorse strong restrictions on lobbying by the banks and corporations, endorse smaller government and I'll be helping them in their march.

Just where have they said that?

Originally posted by beezzer
Have the OWS movement endorse strong restrictions on lobbying by the banks and corporations, endorse smaller government and I'll be helping them in their march.

Just where have they said that?

Why haven't YOU been on the livefeed chats or streets saying it? OWS is also about what you want. You too have a voice... Follow the feeds and/or tweets and you'll see all sorts of ideas. The OWS isn't endorsing anything other than voices... if you feel yours isn't being heard go out there (many cities across the nation and world) and speak your mind.

reply to post by trika3000
Read my signature friend. I AM doing something.

My questions have yet to be answered though.

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by AzureSky

 

wow, you found 3 examples of people who voices their views, there is no censorship there at all. So you pick 3 people out of 200,000 (probably more) across the globe?
Lol, general assumptions are awsome.

Over the years, I've gained something of a talent for trawling. The funny thing is... when you start pushing the buttons on many people supportive of OWS (especially here on ATS), the issue of Israel or "Jewish Bankers" comes up.

I would imagine that, even with that forewarning of what I'll do to you - you will end up allowing me to piss you off to the point where you start crying about Jewish Bankers or Israel.

It's a rather common theme amongst these types, for some reason or another.

So you are saying OWS = Anti-Semitism?

and that..

"It's a rather common theme amongst these types, for some reason or another"

??

From that loony logic we can conclude that Conservatives are "Anti-Semites"...

And I can claim if you press a conservative's buttons they will explain how the "liberal, biased media" is controlled by the "Jews"....which I have in fact seen posted here on ATS a few times, before the mods pulled it.

I can make a case for the KKK attending conservative rallies and spewing anti-Semitic rants.

And then I can go on to say...

"It's a rather common theme amongst these types, for some reason or another"


...And if I did that, in all seriousness, like you just did, I would not only be wrong, but guilty of interjecting a "hate debate" into a discussion about the future of our nation.

Originally posted by Aim64C


Over the years, I've gained something of a talent for trawling.

BTW your talent is in "Troll"ing, not "trawling"...and only a troll would be proud of it.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by trika3000
My questions have yet to be answered though.

This question?

Just where have they said that?

That's what i meant by giving all the links... Have you asked any question or stated your opinion yourself on the any of the feeds. There is no one voice of the movement who is gonna speak for you (us). If you refer yourself back to the comment (the long one) i made above, all of the links are there which you can read and find whatever it is you want to know about the Occupy movement - 99% - and/or Global Change...

If you can't find a protester or someone speaking who concurs with your sentiments either you aren't looking too hard, or you will have to voice it as an individual yourself. The choices are now ours, the voices are now ours. Nobody is taking control (although some are trying, i just got an e-mail from moveon.org pretending they are part of it).. It's funny 'cause some people are using their oppositions voices as reason to ignore or cast doubt on the movement. Like, did you hear that, he's an anarchist - then the other side says did you hear that, it's all a scam by the conservatives. There are so many speaking and commenting you should be able to find your answer. The only thing on the feeds that is mocked or kept off by mods is talk of violence or the pushing of a politician or agenda which has nothing to do with the movement (like religious differences or US vs Them kinda things). Similar to the way things work here on ATS.

Yesterday, i sat and listened to one of the men (a republican by the way) who has been setting up the live feeds. He explained how the internet is the beauty of our individual voices being heard. Never before have all of us been able to communicate on such a broad and instant level before and the smart guys figuring all of this out and who are putting the broad range connective issues together are doing it for freedom of choice and freedom of speech. These are silicon valley type guys (professional business men) The street level of the movement is merely an aspect, but many voices are being heard out there.

Oct. 15th (tomorrow) 951 cities – 82 countries 15october.net... this is what might happen... "United in one voice, we will let politicians, and the financial elites they serve, know it is up to us, the people, to decide our future. We are not goods in the hands of politicians and bankers who do not represent us."... That simply is the statement... What you bring to the table is your ideas and voice. What you glean or take away from the messages and what you do with that information is up to you as an individual.

reply to post by Indigo5

So you are saying OWS = Anti-Semitism?

It's a common theme amongst many of those who end up with a microphone in front of their mouths involved in the protest and a number of its supporters on various forums.

Not all - but it's an odd trend. The talking points are very common, and I suspect that many did not take up support of the OWS movement because of anti-semitism, but were later introduced to the idea by enterprising groups who like to capitalize on group-think.

A man with a megaphone, giving direction to the aimless (yet passionately disgruntled), has an impressive amount of power over the human psyche.

From that loony logic we can conclude that Conservatives are "Anti-Semites"...

The only reason the logic you argue against is loony is because you attempted to use your logic with my observations.

And I can claim if you press a conservative's buttons they will explain how the "liberal, biased media" is controlled by the "Jews"....which I have in fact seen posted here on ATS a few times, before the mods pulled it.

The trend is far less common among conservatives on ATS than it is among liberals (although, to be fair, the population of ATS seems to be predominantly liberal).

I can make a case for the KKK attending conservative rallies and spewing anti-Semitic rants.

The KKK and Neo Nazis are difficult to categorize. Conservatism is for the limited application of government - Even racial supremacist groups disagree on whether or not the government should be actively involved in enforcing said superiority (such a superior race doesn't need the help of government to prove itself, no?).

However, the Neo Nazis are for a Socialized fascist state (much like the Nazi Germany of its roots). ... Which doesn't really fit into the standard conservative principle (other than they tend to share similar gripes about government interference with religion or support various war efforts that conservatives tend to agree on).

...And if I did that, in all seriousness, like you just did, I would not only be wrong, but guilty of interjecting a "hate debate" into a discussion about the future of our nation.

What future? The U.S. has a very limited number of futures available to it.

The real question is whether or not the states will begin warring amongst each other once they secede from the union following the financial insolvency of the National government. ... Or if states will secede before or after riots start tearing apart the larger and more financially inflated centers.

At the National level - there's not a whole lot of time left for them to take action. Which they will not do. They must balance the budget - which is impossible for the parties to do. It mandates serious cuts to Medicare, Welfare, and the Military. And I mean deep cuts - over 30% of the budget to bring it in balance.

Democrats and Republicans call a cut of 20 billion "too deep" when we are spending 1.6 Trillion into the red each fiscal cycle.

They are simply playing a game of hot potato. None of them want to go on record for doing what must be done - which is to cut the benefits of thousands of people and basically kick the medical industry in the groin while ensuring the industries serving the military get a belting, as well.

So, practically speaking - none of these are futures I really want to be raising a family in.

BTW your talent is in "Troll"ing, not "trawling"...and only a troll would be proud of it.

Son, you're showing your age.

I was on the 'interwebs' back when people used proper language and grammar. "Trawling" is exactly what the term implies. You set out to simply snag a desired crowd. You could call it "baiting" (and effective trawling does involve baiting - in fishing, phishing, and forum-trawling).

Somewhere along the line, people began thinking it was cute to refer to those who were trawling as "trawls" - which got turned into "Trolls" (which sounds phonetically similar). Thus, "trawling" became "trolling" and "trawls" became "trolls."

Say what you will about the tactic - it is a very decent way to judge a person's integrity and character.

Originally posted by Aim64C

What future? The U.S. has a very limited number of futures available to it.

At the National level - there's not a whole lot of time left for them to take action. Which they will not do. They must balance the budget - which is impossible for the parties to do. It mandates serious cuts to Medicare, Welfare, and the Military. And I mean deep cuts - over 30% of the budget to bring it in balance.

I am not amongst "the sky is falling" crowd.

High budget deficits are not unusual in times of financial recovery. They are in part necessary to ensure the social safety net in times of financial crisis.

What is unnecessary is wars and the associated military expense.

And what is unusual is bone-deep budget cutting during a recovery, which has the real risk of killing the patient rather than stabilizing it.

We can make due by simply ending our large nation building efforts, wars of occupation.

Already, with the “Arab Spring” we see that middle eastern countries can determine their own future without the Trillions in taxpayer money or Thousands of US Soldiers dying.

reply to post by Indigo5

High budget deficits are not unusual in times of financial recovery. They are in part necessary to ensure the social safety net in times of financial crisis.

It is interesting that inflation vastly exceeds the average interest rate on a savings account. Even with some of the best CDs around, you will not get anything close to the 3+% inflation going on.

Explain to me how deficit spending helps, again.

What is unnecessary is wars and the associated military expense.

And what is unusual is bone-deep budget cutting during a recovery, which has the real risk of killing the patient rather than stabilizing it.

You have this about as backwards as can be.

Why is the government necessary to get out of an economic recession/depression?

Since you will not be able to provide a satisfactory answer, I'll move on to the next nail in your coffin:

The spending deficit seen in many of our previous administrations was spent on the construction and expansion of infrastructure and manufacturing that would be able to continue to produce and return benefits well after government investment in those had ceased.

What comprises the vast majority of our budget in today's world? Paying social security, welfare, medicare, and medicaid checks.

If you want to spend into a deficit - fine - at least have something to show for it.

Which leads me back around to the Military. Again - military spending pays for the production and maintenance of machines that are made almost exclusively by advanced American industrial suppliers. These are the very industries we need to see expand onto the free market to supply long-term demands. Many small manufacturers get picked up for small orders to supply the military and are able to use that to grow and expand even further to include markets they had never been able to touch, before.

My point? After all of that deficit we saw spent by Roosevelt, we had greatly expanded power grids, telecommunications systems, and greatly improved highway/rail infrastructure. We had the largest Navy and most powerful military in the world, and we also reigned supreme in most areas of manufacturing.

After all of this deficit... what? We still have the world's most powerful military - but the rest of it is simply going for womb-to-tomb care that does very little for the economy.

We can make due by simply ending our large nation building efforts, wars of occupation.

No, we can't. 2011 budget deficit is at 1.6 Trillion dollars. ALL Military operations spending is in the range of 280 billion dollars. Procurement is very similar at about 260 billion, and manpower at another 120 billion or so. By time you throw in DoD spending (that includes CIA and National Security spending) - you are looking at about 1 Trillion dollars.

In reality - ending all combat operations would save you, maybe, 300 billion dollars. Ditching the military, entirely and ceasing all retirement pay for veterans (that will go over like a turd in a punch-bowl) as well as all DoD and related spending - you would save the nation about 1 Trillion.

You're still short a whopping 600 billion.

You should spend a little more time with your charts and numbers. I think you don't really understand what you're posting.