If 'Reincarnation' exists, then.....?

Originally posted by Marlborough Red
A perhaps relatively simple question that certainly can't be answered in a simple way.

If reincarnation/s exist then why doe we not remember previous lives or beings?

Something I have been pondering for a while and was wondering what others thoughts on the subject may be?


MR

this is what I did think then ( post 8/11/2009 ) and still think now :

as I said before, I think you cannot and should not remember your previous lives because otherwise you also would remember the lives of other people around you ... I explain : maybe you were in a previous life a victim of a assassination, your assassin also has to reincarnate to learn how to manage his life in a much better way. Now, if in this life now he becomes your friend, trying to be kind instead of angry always ... and if in this life you would remember him as your assassin ... how would you react you think ?
would be impossible to live with : you would remember him, he would remember you, how do you think he could try another life for better Karma ? you would remember your boss who did fire you leaving you without job and in this life he would be your neighbour for example .....
so, for best results in reincanation goals it is necessary to start a totally NEW life, with a totally new expectation, new rules, new lives, new friends, just learn it another way without any pre-established mind !!!
think about it ..... we never may judge another person, only God may do that and the person himself ...... so everybody has to pay for his actings, but nobody knows what is being paid for by someone else nor by himself in reincarnation transit period !!!!

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
reply to post by Marlborough Red

 

I have often thought about this. My spin is that if you remember your previous lives you are apt to repeat the same mistakes again and again. On the other hand, what is the point of being reincarnated if you can not remember? If you have no memory, I think that you have died anyway as you will be a completely different person.

Does that make sense?

in the higher realm you HAVE all memories of your past lifes and you know exactly what you did to others and to yourself ... but in this life you have to start with a virgin attitude, because well if not you should maybe be afraid of your acting you had before, or afraid to begin your new life knowing what could happen, or afraid of your hidden subconscious behaviour, or etc etc ....
when you start a new holiday into a new place you also do not want to be remembered of the problems you had in the previous ones .. you want to forget all about the past and just enjoy the new holiday and make it happen as best as possible .....
it's all about LEARNING the lesson of LOVE ( infinite love ) - as long as you do not understand we are all ONE, as long you have to learn what it means and reincarnate again .... karma has to grow ! or you choose to go down into darkness by bad actions and no love/no solidarity .... your choice !!

My oldest daughter had strong memories of a motorcycle crash involving death until she was about 4 yrs. old.
We asked her if she dreamed about it, and she would say no.
It was kind of weird, but I had a motorcycle at the time.

While this did hit me in the WTF bone, it is far from proof.

Imagine however, that memories are not transferable.
All hard drives are empty when new, until we fill them with our personal information.
The brain comes equipped with motor controls running, and the owner fills the memory bank.
Except our memories are sort of like personal RAM, but when you die the memory may still be set in that brain for a while.
DNA used in reproductions does not include the memories. Can you imagine how big the DNA would have to be?
We do get behavioral traits passed down.

So, I could accept the possibility, without the memories of a past life.

There is a fairly simple answer to this actually and I am surprised no one has touched on this yet.

Reincarnation ties into beliefs of there being an afterlife or a soul or THE ALL.

But for us to return to THE ALL or communicate with it we must first become enlightened on the subject matter.

And how is that possible if we don't first experience death of our ego?


Remembering our past lives is not important for the individual to live life. Remembering our past lives in only important in the view of THE ALL and therefore we do not need to be burden with our past as we are burdened enough with the NOW.

SIMPLE ANSWER: DEATH OF THE EGO

Sunlion touched on it.

I am in the camp that the purpose of reincarnation is to improve your soul. This can't be done in one short, human life so it takes many.

As for the reason you can't remember previous lives, in order to improve your soul, you must work out life lessons. If you can remember previous lives, then it would have too much of an impact.

There can be one big lesson, three, many small, who knows the numbers. Sometimes your here to give a lesson for someone else, it is not solely about you. But if you were a soldier in a previous life, but supposed to be a hippie in the next, ideas would conflict.

That doesn't mean they are erased totally. You know that you are supposed to do right, if you don't you have to repeat over and who wants to do that. Sometimes trauma can carry over.

As for phobias, those can be explained by genetic imprinting. Which is the theory behind why people are afraid of mice and rats, because it is genetic imprinting of the black plague.

Then you also wouldn't interact as much and trend towards the people you already know. What if your previous sister is now supposed to be your wife? problems....

A third reason is you may have not had one. This could be a first time round for someone. Not everyone has the same starting and stopping point. New souls are created all the time or only starting life now.

It seems the memories are wiped for now, when souls lose old 3dimensional vessel environment suits. Maybe to prevent strength gained from having this data or because some feel there is no need for last life information..

I doubt anyone has a real answer to this question. But I have a theoretical model of human existence that works to discover some of these unknowns.

Consider that a human is made of three bodies. There is the physical, mental, and emotional body. Each of these bodies can be seen to be the primary body, but each body depends on the others for its existence.

Usually, we are mostly aware of the physical body (obviously).

The mental body is your dream body. If you've ever had a lucid dream, then you have effectively inhabited your mental body as your primary body.

The emotional body is your connection to "God". The emotional body is what is commonly referred to as the soul. The emotional body is the only one that transcends your individual physical body, but is still dependent on it for its perpetuation. In other words, the only way for an afterlife is to live in a realm that exists outside of time, so that after you die, you can maintain a connection to a physical body. If you are familiar with NDEs, you can see that this is exactly how it is (according to the NDEs).

So if you have previous or subsequent incarnations, you see that your emotional body is the only connection you have to these incarnations.

The only reason that we can't remember past lives then (or future lives), is because we are mostly unaware of the emotional body. It is rare for most humans to inhabit their emotional body as the primary body and gain the emotional body's perspective.

In states of hightened spiritual awareness, you actually can access past and future life knowledge.

reply to post by Marlborough Red

If reincarnation/s exist then why doe we not remember previous lives or beings?

Sometimes we do remember.

Sometimes we force the memories, and then wish we had not done that.

Sometimes the memories are so strong, they cause Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I think you must be very careful with assuming people are actually remembering real past lives. People may be remembering something, but it's a leap of faith to assume it is THEIR past life. As an example, I remember reading of someone who was relating a "past life" describing a scenario in a large banquet hall and the feeling of haughty superiority. Suddenly this person realized she had been a cat in Egypt!

But that was just her interpretation. She had no evidence, really, that she WAS a cat in a previous life. Taking this at face value, at best, she recalled a cat's thoughts, which could have reached her for any number of reasons. It's a leap of faith to assume it was YOUR past life.

Put another way: Let's say reincarnation is absolutely true. You, as an entity, are experiencing lives to "help you grow." How does that work? Let's postulate:

__
|E|------------- Life 1
|N|
|T|------------- Life 2
|I-|
|T|------------- Life 3
|Y|
|--|------------- Life 4

"Entity" there is supposed to be in a box. The Entity is having lives. Why would "Life 2" claim that "Life 1" would be a "past life" of "Life 2"? Conceptually that doesn't make much sense. The only way this could work would be a scenario like this:

Life 1 ---- Life 2 ---- Life 3 ---- Life 4 at which point Life 4 could see Lives 1-3 as "past lives" regardless of the chronology of when they lived in our world, i.e.: Life 3 could be a 23rd century life and Life 4 could be a 21st century life.

Originally posted by schuyler
I think you must be very careful with assuming people are actually remembering real past lives. People may be remembering something, but it's a leap of faith to assume it is THEIR past life. As an example, I remember reading of someone who was relating a "past life" describing a scenario in a large banquet hall and the feeling of haughty superiority. Suddenly this person realized she had been a cat in Egypt!

But that was just her interpretation. She had no evidence, really, that she WAS a cat in a previous life. Taking this at face value, at best, she recalled a cat's thoughts, which could have reached her for any number of reasons. It's a leap of faith to assume it was YOUR past life.

Put another way: Let's say reincarnation is absolutely true. You, as an entity, are experiencing lives to "help you grow." How does that work? Let's postulate:

__
|E|------------- Life 1
|N|
|T|------------- Life 2
|I-|
|T|------------- Life 3
|Y|
|--|------------- Life 4

"Entity" there is supposed to be in a box. The Entity is having lives. Why would "Life 2" claim that "Life 1" would be a "past life" of "Life 2"? Conceptually that doesn't make much sense. The only way this could work would be a scenario like this:

Life 1 ---- Life 2 ---- Life 3 ---- Life 4 at which point Life 4 could see Lives 1-3 as "past lives" regardless of the chronology of when they lived in our world, i.e.: Life 3 could be a 23rd century life and Life 4 could be a 21st century life.

yes !!! you can reincarnate into different timelines, why not ??? in 2500 or in 1789 or in 2435 before Christ ...
no matter, learning is learning, time does NOT exist in afterlife .... nor in this life - it's all illusion of the body.

it's fascinating when you think about it : you can come from 2011 and reincarnate if you wish and feel necessary to do for better learning, in the year 2011 before Christ ....
in some way this could explain some people predicting things they know inconsciously from a previous life in another later timeline ... or some people being in advance for lots of things ( Tesla ... )
just wondering ...

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


If you believe in reincarnation then logically why would you be upset whether or not someone assainated you? Would you not tell yourself it doesn't really matter because you will be reborn and holding any animosity would only hold you back in the next life. There would be no value in your anger. There would no longer be any value in your EGO.

_______________________________________

If we were to remember our previous lives on this plane of life we would not see ourselves as individuals ("How does the japan tsunami affect me." relativity) and progress would exponential.

Why? Because if we remembered we would be more of a collective consciousness.Knowing so much more then just who we were in our previous lives. We would remember what, where, when and why, and how. Getting a broader scope on the question of "what does life mean?" We would exponentially expand in blink of the eye, our progress would shatter our concept of time and we would all come to the same conclusion: You, me, he, she matters not to the WE. A true understanding of THE ALL.

Remembering our previous lives should not be seen as harmful. We should rejoice like the people in Zion in the movie the Matrix, if it were to ever occur. We would no longer be able to deny logic. Who are we? What is the meaning of life? When did we lose our reason? Where is the love? Why all the wars and the sensless acts violence? and How do we live, love, and learn in the future?

But that is why we have to let go of our ego first. Its also partially why letting go is difficult. Not only is it difficult for us to not act like individuals when everyone needs to make a point, (instead of trying to find a common ground, the comman goal), but its also difficult because what is at the end of death is nirvana. Not everyone will achieve this at the same time. Its just how it is. Not everyone who goes to the olympics wins gold.

But this does not mean not mean that there will people who suck because they didn't get the gold. No! Instead that is why we have reincarnation because that is how freakin great THE ALL is. THE ALL will give you infinite lives and allows you to do whatever you chose to do with it. Possibly, we have chosen not to remember our past lives by creating the "relative" ego (I), as oppose to the absolute ego (closer to we).

Its our ego that is holding us back.

www.youtube.com...

Have a family member who died and was brought back on the operating table. That family member is now an atheist even though bro claimed to have been been met by 3 other beings who he believes were just just constructs of the mind due to years of judeo/christian indoctrination. He said he saw the light but was sent back to life because he was a chosen one.

This light that the near dead see - I believe is just your life energy popping out the next birth canal.

To some Eastern philosophies one should strive to escape the endless cycles of life/suffering/death/reincarnation and achieve Nirvana - a state of being one with the universe, non existence as we know it, being everywhere and nowhere and at peace.

This light may have the ability to erase memories or the newborn baby brain is too empty a slate to write a past life on?

Do we have the choice but must discipline ourselves to not be like the bugs that flock to the light but...stay in the darkness of death and either dissolve into peaceful non existent bliss or strengthen ourselves in the darkness and seek out a powerful family to be born into / strive to keep your knowledge gained from previous lives use your new position to do whatever you can???

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

If you believe in reincarnation then logically why would you be upset whether or not someone assainated you? Would you not tell yourself it doesn't really matter because you will be reborn and holding any animosity would only hold you back in the next life. There would be no value in your anger. There would no longer be any value in your EGO.

_______________________________________

If we were to remember our previous lives on this plane of life we would not see ourselves as individuals ("How does the japan tsunami affect me." relativity) and progress would exponential.

Why? Because if we remembered we would be more of a collective consciousness.Knowing so much more then just who we were in our previous lives. We would remember what, where, when and why, and how. Getting a broader scope on the question of "what does life mean?" We would exponentially expand in blink of the eye, our progress would shatter our concept of time and we would all come to the same conclusion: You, me, he, she matters not to the WE. A true understanding of THE ALL.

Remembering our previous lives should not be seen as harmful. We should rejoice like the people in Zion in the movie the Matrix, if it were to ever occur. We would no longer be able to deny logic. Who are we? What is the meaning of life? When did we lose our reason? Where is the love? Why all the wars and the sensless acts violence? and How do we live, love, and learn in the future?

But that is why we have to let go of our ego first. Its also partially why letting go is difficult. Not only is it difficult for us to not act like individuals when everyone needs to make a point, (instead of trying to find a common ground, the comman goal), but its also difficult because what is at the end of death is nirvana. Not everyone will achieve this at the same time. Its just how it is. Not everyone who goes to the olympics wins gold.

But this does not mean not mean that there will people who suck because they didn't get the gold. No! Instead that is why we have reincarnation because that is how freakin great THE ALL is. THE ALL will give you infinite lives and allows you to do whatever you chose to do with it. Possibly, we have chosen not to remember our past lives by creating the "relative" ego (I), as oppose to the absolute ego (closer to we).

Its our ego that is holding us back.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 12-10-2011 by ImmortalThought because: link added

because when you are "spirit" in "after"?life it does NOT matter you, you are above those problems ....
but when you reincarnate as a human, you could have feelings of revenge etc etc ... it's totally different mindset here .... you are HUMAN with human feelings you have to learn to control, you are not your spirit/soul in afterlife with all consciousness and all comprehension and benevolence possible ....

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


You have gotten some really good pondering answers. I happen to believe this one....

this is what I did think then ( post 8/11/2009 ) and still think now : as I said before, I think you cannot and should not remember your previous lives because otherwise you also would remember the lives of other people around you ... I explain : maybe you were in a previous life a victim of a assassination, your assassin also has to reincarnate to learn how to manage his life in a much better way. Now, if in this life now he becomes your friend, trying to be kind instead of angry always ... and if in this life you would remember him as your assassin ... how would you react you think ? would be impossible to live with : you would remember him, he would remember you, how do you think he could try another life for better Karma ? you would remember your boss who did fire you leaving you without job and in this life he would be your neighbour for example ..... so, for best results in reincanation goals it is necessary to start a totally NEW life, with a totally new expectation, new rules, new lives, new friends, just learn it another way without any pre-established mind !!! think about it ..... we never may judge another person, only God may do that and the person himself ...... so everybody has to pay for his actings, but nobody knows what is being paid for by someone else nor by himself in reincarnation transit period !!!!

Each existence is a step up or should be from the last as we learn and perfect.

Cause and effect, if you will.

My apologies for "replying" to you as I meant to quote you and reply to the OP.

reply to post by MamaJ

Originally posted by Marlborough Red
If reincarnation/s exist then why doe we not remember previous lives or beings?

Because of The Blueprint of Exploration . Once you understand that incarnation is done with the sole purpose of gaining experience and a different perspective it is only natural not to remember "previous" incarnations so the experience gained is not contaminated with the "previous" views. I say "previous" because the Soul (Entity Consciousness) can have hundreds of incarnations simultaneously. What you perceive as fragmentary existence (past - future) is not what the Soul perceives. Remember, the Soul dwells in non-time.

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit

Originally posted by schuyler
I think you must be very careful with assuming people are actually remembering real past lives. People may be remembering something, but it's a leap of faith to assume it is THEIR past life. As an example, I remember reading of someone who was relating a "past life" describing a scenario in a large banquet hall and the feeling of haughty superiority. Suddenly this person realized she had been a cat in Egypt!

But that was just her interpretation. She had no evidence, really, that she WAS a cat in a previous life. Taking this at face value, at best, she recalled a cat's thoughts, which could have reached her for any number of reasons. It's a leap of faith to assume it was YOUR past life.

Put another way: Let's say reincarnation is absolutely true. You, as an entity, are experiencing lives to "help you grow." How does that work? Let's postulate:

__
|E|------------- Life 1
|N|
|T|------------- Life 2
|I-|
|T|------------- Life 3
|Y|
|--|------------- Life 4

"Entity" there is supposed to be in a box. The Entity is having lives. Why would "Life 2" claim that "Life 1" would be a "past life" of "Life 2"? Conceptually that doesn't make much sense. The only way this could work would be a scenario like this:

Life 1 ---- Life 2 ---- Life 3 ---- Life 4 at which point Life 4 could see Lives 1-3 as "past lives" regardless of the chronology of when they lived in our world, i.e.: Life 3 could be a 23rd century life and Life 4 could be a 21st century life.

yes !!! you can reincarnate into different timelines, why not ??? in 2500 or in 1789 or in 2435 before Christ ...
no matter, learning is learning, time does NOT exist in afterlife .... nor in this life - it's all illusion of the body.

Yea I agree. Time is an illusion.Once the illusion is broken lose of the ego time will disolve just as you have pointed out.

This is how occultist throw these "secrets" into films. The background, as you will see, is off all the people who have remembered their "past" lives having a party. A past life that does not include being a living battery. Instead, one of a natural awakened state.
In this scene ( I linked it earlier) "I remember" is the very first thing said by Niabo to Morpheus as they peer over the dancing crowd (she repeats it twice).
Later Neo says to trinity "I was thinking, everyone is here." And the trinity (the white rabbit) says again "follow me."



Or in Lost, the last season, at the end when Jack goes to his fathers funeral and his father is alive. Jack remembers everything all his past lives, on the island, off the island, before and after. Jack then follows his dad Christian Shephard (who is also the protrayed as the white rabbit in episode 5 season 1) out to where? "Lets go find out." None other than everyone. Very similar themes. Remembering, everyone, rejoice, faith vs logic, "death" (death of the ego), and time being an illusion.





Funny how they throw it in our face (no wonder we are captivated by particular movies/shows). Some get it and are making attempts rid themselves of their ego while others will need to get on another plane (hmm? LOST) and try again. And a little push in the right direction never hurt

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

If you believe in reincarnation then logically why would you be upset whether or not someone assainated you? Would you not tell yourself it doesn't really matter because you will be reborn and holding any animosity would only hold you back in the next life. There would be no value in your anger. There would no longer be any value in your EGO.

_______________________________________


Its our ego that is holding us back.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 12-10-2011 by ImmortalThought because: link added

because when you are "spirit" in "after"?life it does NOT matter you, you are above those problems ....
but when you reincarnate as a human, you could have feelings of revenge etc etc ... it's totally different mindset here .... you are HUMAN with human feelings you have to learn to control, you are not your spirit/soul in afterlife with all consciousness and all comprehension and benevolence possible ....

I agree with you dude, I apologize for coming off wrong if I did. I should have said "if you KNOW that reincarnation was real why would you be vengeful?" But in the absence of remembering your past lives you are not even given the chance to be vengeful becasue someone killed you in a previous life.

So I'm saying once you remember your past lives in human form and if it happened on a global scale, WE remembered, logically we would have no reason to kill or be vengeful. We would be forced to act differently because killing would no longer create progress or be a matter of survival. We would see a change in what we say is currently innate or just human.

Where did these souls that are being endlessly recycled come from?

I like to think, that if reincarnation was real or true, that time does not play. You could be reincarnated from someone who died in the future or the past.

We don't (conciously) remember our previous lives because then we would have no reason to take this one seriously. If it were an accepted, widely-known truth that we kept coming back and coming back, people could do whatever they wanted without consequence because hey, I'll just come right back! No need to learn this or that, I'll be back again., etc and so forth.

If people are under the impression that we only live once, then they'd be more apt to take this life seriously, to learn what they can see it as the precious gift that it is.