99%? Who wants to be a part of the 100%?

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

 

you make a few good points, however ...

Banks provide a service (lending money) and charge a fee for that service (interest). If you don't like the fee, don't use the service. If you *do* use the service, it's *your* responsibility, not the bank's, to exercise due diligence.

if this is some lame attempt to excuse predatory lending, you are sadly mistaken. The responsibility of "due diligence" falls on all parties, not just the borrower.
The abuse of power is only facilitated by the rampant ignorance of those participating.

geeeeeesh, and ppl wonder why there is confusion.

You'll note I did mention the need for reform...trust me, I'm not a huge fan of the banking industry. On the other hand, let me point out your own words: "The abuse of power is only facilitated by the rampant ignorance of those participating.". You're exactly right. While the banks have a share of blame for the current mess (don't get me started on a "bad lending policy" rant...I only have around 4,000 characters to work with! ), the consumer has to man (or woman) up and accept their share of the blame too. I don't care *how* predatory the bank's lending policies are, or how over-the-top their fees are, if borrowers took the time to educate themselves and actually be diligent, and walk away from loans they couldn't afford, those bad loans would never get made, and the predatory lending wouldn't be profitable. I'm not 'excusing' predatory lending, or justifying it. I'm simply saying that it's not the bank's fault if a customer isn't smart enough to walk away from loans they can't afford to repay, taken out for things they want rather than need.

Caveat emptor may have lost its place as a founding legal principle...but it's still darn good advice.

Maybe next to the gibbet folks want to hang the bankers from, we should put up a pillory for a select not-so-few borrowers?

reply to post by projectvxn


Hell yes!!!!
Somebody gets it
It reminds me of the other day I was walking to the library.
I saw this girl, who was dressing preppy but talking like she was "down with the machine"
holding a Starbucks ( huh? Right?) She said " I'm such a non conformist "
who just says that???
well looks like your conforming to Starbucks and Hollister.
people can be very fake and 2 sided.
So it can be hard to pla e someone in a 99% when they are well off with money and never have tpo work a real job because your hair is bleachedand your laugh is fake....

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by zerotime

 

I fully understand this. My problem with the protesters isn't their anger at Wall St. or the government that coddles the criminality to be found there. My problem with the protesters is the collectivist mentality of the organizers and the mob like disposition. My problem with the protesters is their seeming want for a more collectivist society that would rely on the very government that bailed out Wall St.

My problem with the protesters is that they have no clue what they're protesting and then look down their collective noses at myself and others for not throwing our blind support for a movement that has no direction. These people don't want restoration of what made America great, they want the destruction of America altogether. They want their fancy little revolution.

Theres a couple movies you should watch. End of America is a good one, And Zeitgeist. Two good documentaries to start off at. The american society is silently becoming a police state. And according to End of America, an award winning book too, it's already there. The author pefectly associates the rise of hitler and the third reich, to america. While it sounds too aweful to be true, well just watch. The american government is doing the exact same thing. IE. Patriot act for example.

The revolution will happen, may it be peaceful or not. It is coming, maybe not today, maybe not next week or the month after. But this has seeded the idea, and the idea is spreading. You hear the people going by with their cars, honking. Thousands of people cannot make it there because they are stuck in the system of working their asses off to support their family. Some people have 3 or 4 incomes and still can't get out of the hole. 9.1% unemployment, doesnt count underemployment, or housing affordability issues. People being forclosed on. People who have worked their WHOLE LIVES, are 90 y ears old. Losing their homes they've been paying on for 25 years or more. Because the cost of commodity goes up, and their pensions do not.

You're military right? You think you'll have a pension when you're out? Take a look at some quotes from history about the Military Industrial Complex. What is the reason they give you to go to war? I admire that you would fight for your country when some of us can't or won't (i refuse personally), I even had an 'in' in the military, but i refused to stoop to that level unless i needed to. Its not about patriotism, i love my country. I'm just not interested in going to war. Since it accomplishes nothing in the long run but lives lost, and billions of dollars in weaponry, manpower, and occupations.

reply to post by beezzer


so ignorant...the 1% worked hard?? you dont know that for a fact you only go off what your told or you read. regardless of whether they worked hard or not they use their power as the 1% to use the F*&^ out of the 99% we are their own personal zoo or sim city pretty much and unless we fight back we are stuck being that

reply to post by AzureSky


I've seen all three Zeitgeist movies. And while a neat star trek economy would be great. We live in the real world.

Secondly, IF I decide to stay 20 or 30 years in the military then yes, I will receive a pension. But I may not be in that long as I am eager to work in the private sector.

Originally posted by Psychonautix
reply to post by beezzer

 

so ignorant...the 1% worked hard?? you dont know that for a fact you only go off what your told or you read. regardless of whether they worked hard or not they use their power as the 1% to use the F*&^ out of the 99% we are their own personal zoo or sim city pretty much and unless we fight back we are stuck being that

And you for a fact that they didn't?

This misguided attempt at class warfare fueled by White House backed goons is laughable. So are the gullible people who are eating this up.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Psychonautix
reply to post by beezzer

 

so ignorant...the 1% worked hard?? you dont know that for a fact you only go off what your told or you read. regardless of whether they worked hard or not they use their power as the 1% to use the F*&^ out of the 99% we are their own personal zoo or sim city pretty much and unless we fight back we are stuck being that

And you for a fact that they didn't?

This misguided attempt at class warfare fueled by White House backed goons is laughable. So are the gullible people who are eating this up.

From my perspective...

The class warfare is being waged from the Right wing talking heads like Rush, Beck, Savage, Levin, Coulter, Fox, Clear channel and the rest of the AM radio bunch. They aren't exactly talking compromise. They, like you are still promoting the Corporate Oligarchy against the American Working man. That's the class warfare from the right GOP against the middle class.

And that is why I support the OWS movement. It may be disjointed now but it will gain focus and eventually be a huge liberal political force to be reckoned with. That's why we see all the Right Wingers trying to mount a preemptive strike against freedom from corporate tyranny; That even exist with the Obama administration. Were no fan of Obama!!!

reply to post by boncho


That's what most companies do these days, once they make the most of it, they sacrifice the company and sell it off. The owner walks off with a few million and doesn't have to work for awhile and then the employees end up losing their job.

This is how companies are working, they have a few year shelf life and the owner will sacrifice the company, making money off it's demise and hurting all the employees.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


You got me. Just a dumb mechanic here. Please enlighten me on how it ACTUALLY works. Is there excess, golden parachutes and such,yes. How would you change it and why can't I have an opinion you don't agree with?

reply to post by beezzer
[m


So what are you saying, the 99 percent of people don't work hard? They do, only they get a pittance for it because the "ownership class" keeps 80 percent of the fruits of the workers labors and gives them a few crumbs. The reason the rich are rich is not for the most part that they work hard, its because they OWN the companies. That and that they pass on their wealth to their kids. Do you see Paris Hilton out digging ditches for her money? No she got it from Daddy, who got it from underpaying his workers.

reply to post by whaaa


Funny. Changing the laws would have more effect than shouting at bankers, yet you seem bent on defending those folks that WRITE the laws that banks and corporations abuse.

reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

couldn't agree more and i can list 545 of 'em right now ... most of whom are vacationing on our $$$$$ contributions.

please know i wasn't bashing the caveat emptor concept, i am a firm believer it applies in every transaction.

however, i cannot and will not release the responsibility of the lenders simply because they chose to proceed. There is a level of consciousness every human must bypass in order to complete such works ... therein lies the real problem.
but alas, that is one problem that no protest can address or change.

reply to post by beezzer


I don't see anyone defending the politicians.

Changing the laws? Sounds like that other guy that offered change.

They all offer change. Have they ever really come through?

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

 

you make a few good points, however ...

Banks provide a service (lending money) and charge a fee for that service (interest). If you don't like the fee, don't use the service. If you *do* use the service, it's *your* responsibility, not the bank's, to exercise due diligence.

if this is some lame attempt to excuse predatory lending, you are sadly mistaken. The responsibility of "due diligence" falls on all parties, not just the borrower.
The abuse of power is only facilitated by the rampant ignorance of those participating.

geeeeeesh, and ppl wonder why there is confusion.

What's your definition of predatory lending? Someone walking into a bank making $25k a year and asking for (and getting) a $100k loan? Putting aside the fact that most banks won't lend that much to that person, if they do, then person signs on the dotted line. If they can't make the payments, then it's always Someone Else's Fault. The mean, evil bank took my house!

Personal responsibility be damned, the rich OWES us!

/TOA

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by beezzer

 

I don't see anyone defending the politicians.

Changing the laws? Sounds like that other guy that offered change.

They all offer change. Have they ever really come through?

Then you're not looking very hard.
As for change? We're getting it alright. Just not the kind of change that benefits the majority.

reply to post by beezzer


Care to point out some examples?

Pointing out wall street isn't really giving Washington a pardon.

As for the change that benefits the minority. Wasn't wall street a part of those that have lobbied Washington for those negative changes?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by DieBravely
You are absolutely wrong.

The 1% didn't earn anything but our hatred.

They profit off the blood and sweat of the people, and we the people will have our day.

We're drawing lines in the sand and it's clear which side you're on.

Enjoy the 1%, I'm sure that your masters will be happy to look after your every need.

I am part of the 1%. Because "they" need me. We are linked. "They" can't survive without me, I can't survive without them.
Hate them because they have more than you.

Very telling.

Here in lies the issue...no one hates the 1% because they were succussful. That's a gross manipulation of words. People despise the 1% for the way they manipulate the system in their favor. I'm sure their are many rich individuals whom have contributed greatly to our society. The issue is it is not nore ever has been a level playing field. The majority of the 1% have been in the 1% well before anyone even realized there was a 1%. This is family weath that has been passed on from generation to generation, and while grand daddy may have built his empire from the ground up through sweat and blood and conributed greatly to society, grand son sits in his million dollar home pouring his money into the politics to ensure he stays rich with no effort on his part.

No one hates anyone for being successful, just greedy and manipulative.

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

 

you make a few good points, however ...

Banks provide a service (lending money) and charge a fee for that service (interest). If you don't like the fee, don't use the service. If you *do* use the service, it's *your* responsibility, not the bank's, to exercise due diligence.

if this is some lame attempt to excuse predatory lending, you are sadly mistaken. The responsibility of "due diligence" falls on all parties, not just the borrower.
The abuse of power is only facilitated by the rampant ignorance of those participating.

geeeeeesh, and ppl wonder why there is confusion.

What's your definition of predatory lending? Someone walking into a bank making $25k a year and asking for (and getting) a $100k loan? Putting aside the fact that most banks won't lend that much to that person, if they do, then person signs on the dotted line. If they can't make the payments, then it's always Someone Else's Fault. The mean, evil bank took my house!

Personal responsibility be damned, the rich OWES us!

/TOA

what does my definition of predatory lending have to do with a dang thing?
or are you just being obtuse now?

wall street doesn't lend a damn thing.

actually, that mean, evil BofA tried to take our house and they never had the note ... so what's your point?
fyi ...eventually, rather write a new loan (orig. owner deceased) as we tried repeatedly to accomplish for 4 consecutive years (amazingly while the derivative dance ensued) the result was the 2, pre-qualified, veteran residents being forced out with a 24hr notice and Wells Fargo/Wauchovia decided to resell to an "immigrant".
so please, tell me again how i don't understand.

i never said "the rich owes anyone" ... take a chill pill will ya?
i will say, the protesters have some valid points.
i will also say, until they have a true sense of direction, their days are numbered.

Americans do not compromise all of the 1% ... 69,000,000+ ppl make up the 1% ... let's see some names or you have NO target whatsoever ... just an imaginary illusion.

so, back to the beginning ... what or who creates the illusion ???
it's not wall street
who controls the application of said illusion ??
it's still, not wall street
who then is responsible for the ills for which we complain ???
based on the above, it can't be wall street, comprende?

Originally posted by beezzer

Hate them because they have more than you.

Very telling.

It's not about who has more. It's about how much is enough. How many houses is enough, when we have staggering numbers of homeless people in this country? How many cars is enough? How many boats? How many luxuries are enough when many people lack the basic necessities? How much high level corruption is enough in our financial system and our government? Even leaving climate change out of it, how long will we let companies pollute the environment, which effects the health of the people who not only are the backbone of these companies but also consume their products? Speaking of products, how long will we let the most addictive and damaging drugs be legally pushed on people, including not only prescription drugs but also alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine, while natural alternatives exist and are either made illegal or are ignored completely? I'm not just talking about marijuana, though it's a huge example of the kind of double standards I am talking about. Google LEAP to look into that particular topic. These protests are more about a broken system than class warfare. Left and Right are two sides of the same wooden nickel and it's time for major change. Our political system is more divisive by it's very nature than these protests are.

White House feeds off protest anger

www.ft.com...

That's just one example of the White House enjoying this.
Pelosi is quotes as supporting the protesters as well.
Heck, there are quotes from the protesters wanting to support Obama.