The Monetary Systems Replacement

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


Great thread
I started a thread vary similar. The difference is that we would still have monatary system, the difference is that there is no way of ataining wealth through non-altruist means. Give it a read.

The link to the thread is in my signiture. I think it would work.

reply to post by Mythfury


Ditto! Well said Mythfury.

We are the only specie in the universe/creation that must slave/stress to be able to eat and have basic living and survival needs fullfilled, make war against our own, starve the children of our own specie and will let our own die through desease and poverty. We are the only specie that will put profit over wisdom and are actually capable of completely sitting the plot miss as far as caring for our planet while a small creamy group at the top congratulate themselves and celebrate their accomplishments with a new jet or whatever. So so sick.

We have developed ourselves into a web of erotic materialism (a term coined by Rudolf Steiner) that has nothing to do with inner growth and now we are sitting with our decadent little tushes in our own preverbial kak, unable to wiggle free from the knot we are in. (kak- an Afrikaans/Dutch/Italian word.)

How do I know this? No, I cant prove it, but many abductees have come back with this message from our fellow hitchickers of the galaxy.

We have lost faith in nature and always seem to think we know better by complicated processes and additives and packaging and marketing and choice and.... and....
(Let's not just have raw real chocolate, no that is to simple, lets have breakfast cereal laden with artificial chemicals and chocolate flavoured carboard bubble grains and call it Coco Pops! Yah! Now we can really have fun while we eat!)

Providing for today or even this week, nay! this month or this year, nay! this lifetime is not secure enough! We have to provide for the entire bloodline of this family until kingdom comes! We cannot trust that 'Jah will provide'. We truly are the most godless specie, yet ever so religious and full of belief systems. But the very belief system that we were blessed with to provide for us are totally overlooked and run down.

Hell, what a specie we are. God had such a sense of humour when He created us, cause only someone with a huge sense of the rediculous could love us.

Time to clean up our act. And our tushes.
Toss the dough!

"Money" is not the issue. "want" is the issue "money" is just a generic medium of exchange. If you want an I-phone;and I want 50lbs of wheat. If we each haveit to exchange great. I'll swap you . if not I'll give you the I-phone for 50 clams or beads and I'll take those to a new exchange somewhere to barter for my wheat.
"volunteers"?
Ever done a really "shi**y" job ?
Roofing in july?
Or Like pulling a sewage pump out of a sump ina factory to remove a shredded pair of mens underwear some hungover worker cut off themselves and flushed after crapping their pants?Not many (even "well" paid) "volunteers" lining up for that one I' lll tell you!

Or concrete work! It is physically brutal abdominal burning work pulling concrete off a chute andpushingit around a large form with a shovel .No breaks as long as the trucks are stacked up!
Not all necessary work is pleasantly satisfying in and of itself..

You posted a Great idea that I think some people would adhere to. The problem is we have so many people in this world who are lazy, want to be taken care of..etc...socialists..

So how do u get these lazy people, homeless people, people on welfare and socialists to do something for free and on their own time without getting any monetary reward?

I can't think of a way and believe me I have thought hard on this....

It's too bad our society can't live in the world of star trek..

reply to post by 46ACE


Excellent reply....I agree with you.

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


Well I am not going to judge you. I think you have a great imagination and honorable motives.

Oh for the idealism of peace, mutual cooperation and harmony of purpose. However, original sin (the human condition) and mammon are partners in the same bed of iniquity.

I have a grave concern because as I watch the disintegration of the world's economies I know that we are moving towards a new International concept of money and economics. This fills me with dread because of what St John wrote in his Vision of The Mark of The Beast (not being able to contribute, buy or sell unless one has the brand of belonging to The Beast). A bad system replaced with the worst of all systems.

On that basis I think your ideas are very nice and thoughtful.

this guy try to teach us about mobile perpetuum ???...well how about tabula rasa !!!..this we need ..good luck my fellow chimps...

Didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been asked previously:

"if the occupy wall street protesters were to succeed in collapsing the monetary system"

Who says that is their objective?

Originally posted by antoinemarionette
reply to post by CynicalDrivel

 

What if everything is provided for everyone, from cars, to food, to housing, to education? Would you really need a wage?

Why would anyone want everything provided for them? I don't. Even if you take out the money equation there is still value in accomplishing a job well done for oneself, for being self-sufficient and taking pride in one's own accomplishment. I would resent being given everything, to be honest. Wouldn't accept it.

Originally posted by queenofsheba

Originally posted by antoinemarionette
reply to post by CynicalDrivel

 

What if everything is provided for everyone, from cars, to food, to housing, to education? Would you really need a wage?

Why would anyone want everything provided for them? I don't. Even if you take out the money equation there is still value in accomplishing a job well done for oneself, for being self-sufficient and taking pride in one's own accomplishment. I would resent being given everything, to be honest. Wouldn't accept it.

Goodpoint: and who wants everything provided for them produced under govt contract (i.e. by the lowest bidder)?Never actually seen a "Trabant" ( east german car) up close have you?And I think Thomas Jefferson said something like:"a govt big enough to give you everything; is big enough to tak every thing away too".

So you( "Mr.smartguy1179"...) posted a rude Obama comment on ATS(?) ;perhaps your monthly federal ration account will have a couple of numbers transposed (purely by accident! clerical error! we're sorry you didn't get food authorization for april and may of 2013 Just File federal form 112-59"F" to receive a double ration authorization in June of 2014!

Centralized planning;control and distribution is like voluntarily putting your head in a noose and keeping one nervous eye on the guy with the hood inching closer to some kind of lever.It stinks ( "on ice")!

not going to work , IMHO. You make a few sentimental points, but in truth it seems doomed to failure.
Volunteers:
The people that volunteer do not do it for rewards. They do stuff most others dont care to. Those that dont volunteer will not be enticed to do so simply for a few measly higher class priveledges. And the type of people that always volunteered, just for the love of helping, will continue to do so, so by giving them access to more priveledges it seems like a waste of what will be limited resources. I just dont see that part working out all that great.
Resources:
We can not switch to renewable resources yet. The means and infrastructures are not in place, and converting - assuming we can find adequate sources - will take us a long while yet.
Education:
To say that children are going to be taught those things - well, that just throws your whole plans out the window right there. If the children are taught these things, and the emphasis is taken off from where they are now, then how will they ever gain enough education to become the doctors, engineers, scientists that the future is going to need? While the education system is not perfect, it isnt that bad. A few bad apples here and there, but hey, it got us off to university and college just fine. You want to foster a child's emotional side, that happens at home.
Sex:
ok here you have just lost me. who cares about sex? What two people do is their business, assuming they are both adults. No one has the right to meddle in people's bedrooms, no matter who runs the world. Tantric? Multiple orgasms? really, what does that have to do with a utopia???


The truth is, there will never be a utopia here. There are simply far too many people here, for one thing. Too many people to sustain easily. The only thing that keeps us going is the drive to earn our paycheck. You may like to think that everyone will keep working once money is gone, but you are deader than dead wrong! I myself am a hard worker, always providing for my children, long days, long weeks. But I promise you this, if money and the need for money goes out the window, i will be looking for a way to get a better living for myself! I may go off to college or university for a few free degrees, i may become an artisan and spend my days crafting things no one needs. I know a lot a lot a lot of people will abandon the dirty factory jobs, the sweaty roadside jobs, and all leap into warm and comfortable jobs or pursuits. And then who will run the workings of society that we need?? Do you really think that on a hot humid summer day that the guy holding the stop sign by road constructio is there because that is his calling?? Trust me, society would crumble faster than you can think. And crawling out of that mess would take a long hard uphill battle.
In closing i will say this:
MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM

seriously

it really isnt

the problem is.....
wait for it.....



interest and debt!!

eliminate these two things only and leave the rest of society as it is and i think you will see something akin to utopia slowly emerge.

reply to post by chrissiel123


bingo..thats why the created interest and debt (credit expansion)


those at the top print their own money and leverage money,capital, time, their employees, etc...become rich...and then have the time to do what they want

one can make the argument the federal reserve cabal has ruined the system along with the us government debt binge.....but eliminating the stock market and other man made vehicles to create wealth is not really a solution.

communism/socialism is not a real answer.


desire is human and natural. why would anyone want to get rid of that from the "system"

expansion of yourself, the world, the universe is what its about anyway. that is freedom. and its good

i envision this perfect world.. and hopefully one day humanity will be able to get past this whole screwed up system but im not sure if it will be anytime soon

Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
You posted a Great idea that I think some people would adhere to. The problem is we have so many people in this world who are lazy, want to be taken care of..etc...socialists..

Are retirees socialists because they bled into the failed system their entire working lives?

So how do u get these lazy people, homeless people, people on welfare and socialists to do something for free and on their own time without getting any monetary reward?

I bet each one of them possesses their own unique talent...

I can't think of a way and believe me I have thought hard on this....

It's too bad our society can't live in the world of star trek..

Everybody has their own ideals but too few ideals include the people around them.

Nice theory - wrong species

reply to post by Hanslune


Sigh apparently so. The only way for a system like this to work, is if the current world comes to an end. Nothing short of that, will allow people to realize that there is more than one way to live.

Money is a store of value.

If you are not going to have money, then you are refusing to give your people a way to store value, or life-energy. A free marketplace allows people to trade their life-energy for things they want. And they can barter and haggle over the value their goods or services, to get the most for their life's work.

I volunteer with a local food pantry, and a homeless shelter.

The trouble with volunteers is that they don't want to do certain jobs. No one ever volunteers to scrub the toilets.

Likewise, who will volunteer to do the backbreaking work of slaughtering beef, or drilling for oil, or filling potholes.

You will have plenty of wine-tasters and volunteer food critics; you may run low on proctologists.

Oil would not be a problem, as it would not even have to be used.

Everyone is thinking too much about our current world. My idea is about the next system, not about how this system could work with the monetary system. The two do not match each other.

Without money being a deterrent, people would want to learn things they don't get the chance to in the current system.

When you are asked, as a child, what you want to be when you grow up.... Did you think about the monetary value of that job, before answering? If it is natural to seek value in something, then why don't kids understand the concept?

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


Right. I get what you're saying.

But you're leaving out the flip-side of the scenario: No one would ever do anything they didn't feel like doing.

If people only did what they pleased, they would never do anything unpleasant. Who would stock the shelves in the grocery, or wherever you plan to distribute food from? If you don't distribute food at all, then everyone has to bake their own bread, and that isn't freedom at all, it's simply primitivism.

The whole problem with anarchy is that civilization is too complex to be maintained solely on people's whims. To have an orderly society, (say, where you can get food without having to grow and cook it yourself), people will need to be rewarded for doing dangerous or merely boring work.

But you are envisioning a system where people are not rewarded for anything in particular, except by their own feelings.

What if no one feels like being a fireman next Wednesday? What if no one feels like staffing the hospital on Christmas Eve?

See, civilization involves the exchange of surplus goods ...... Some dude said that once. Frederich something.... No, it was Karl. Karl somebody......

In my opinion, We as a people arent lazy. We just dont know anything. We are taught to think a certain way, to feel a certain way. And somepeople are naturally followers, but theres some who arent. We need to get the idea out there of UNDERSTANDING. Agree to Disagree, if you will. If you like putting pickles on your ice cream, you shouldnt have anyone saying youre weird or anything, they should think "Thats their choice". People like to classify themselves as thinkers or feelers, but i say, once you get past that, you get understanding, when you learn to use your feelings to think of things that could make things better, and think of others feelings. In my AP English class last year, all the teacher really did was make us interact and spread ideas. It really helped put perspectives on things. In all honesty, it could work, if we all wanted it to. And we will look back at this time and call it the Era of Greed. Things will change, i believe that with the fire raging in my heart.