Good humans or just humans as animals?

If you read my other posts you'll know I'm all for positive behavior and against picking sides as most opinions/beliefs are related to our experiences during this life and everyone's differ.

Sometimes I wonder if it's really a case of people being evil or people being nothing more than another animal on this earth. If there really is nothing waiting for us after we die and there is no larger purpose (I personally don't believe this but know it's possible) then I think the humans that commit cruel acts are no different than other species in the animal kingdom. Societal morals were only created by man. I know the evils that occur are horrible and shouldn't happen because we are able to to think on a higher level which is what supposedly distinguishes from other animals but after so many years the atrocities continue to occur. Maybe we will never be able to suppress our animal instincts and the fact that no matter how far we advance we are still animals on this earth. We try to shroud our actions with ideologies and wars based on self defense but are we really different from an alpha wolf beating down it's challenger to the position?

Note: I don't necessarily believe this, it's just a thought stream I have pondered a few times and I want to know what others think about it. Most of what I believe is different from this but I thought maybe some ATS members could provide some ideas on this for the next time it pops up in my head.

Thanks!

reply to post by Epirus


the answer of the question in your title "Good humans or just humans as animals?"
is: bad humans!

reply to post by Epirus


Well, when you think about it, war is not an animalistic trait. Animals do not go to war, ever. They co-exist. A lion may take one gazelle out of hundreds, but it doesn't seem to affect the group as a whole. I think we are denying our natural place in this world by thinking that we can justify war at all.

Animals don't commit genocide..

BUT, I totally understand where you are coming from, this is just my personal snippet. SF, thanks!

Originally posted by EmilNomel
reply to post by Epirus

 

the answer of the question in your title "Good humans or just humans as animals?"
is: bad humans!

Thank you, that's generally the view I take. I was just trying to consider alternative ideas that have popped into my head. After all, nature is wild. Even a lot of the "good" humans have their vices/secrets which when uncovered make them seem not as "good".

reply to post by Epirus


I'm going to posit that if resources were not scarce then 2/3 of the problems we face on the planet would not exist. Maybe more. In other words I believe that most conflicts (animal or human related) reduce to available resources in one way or another. Of course some humans (I can't speak for the animal kingdom on this) are plainly sadistic regardless what they have or don't have. I'm really not certain what to think about that particular lot of people.

People are nothing more than cultured savages

culturedsavages.wordpress.com...

reply to post by Epirus

The spoiler to this question is the assumption it makes about animals.

Yes, animals eat each other. But humans eat animals, too.

There have been many studies that indicate that most animal groups, as has been noted, are much more peaceful and caring for each other than we see in many human groups.

This means that, like it or not, human beings have been targeted for "special treatment" in life.

So, no, we're not just being "bad animals." We are capable of much worse than that. Much, much worse.

And to understand how that came to be so is to understand a lot!

Originally posted by EvanJP
reply to post by Epirus

 

Well, when you think about it, war is not an animalistic trait. Animals do not go to war, ever. They co-exist. A lion may take one gazelle out of hundreds, but it doesn't seem to affect the group as a whole. I think we are denying our natural place in this world by thinking that we can justify war at all.

Animals don't commit genocide..

BUT, I totally understand where you are coming from, this is just my personal snippet. SF, thanks!

edit on 29-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)

Devils advocate response here...
Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" Genocide isn't really a relevant term to our fellow earthly inhabitants as it mostly refers to systematic(I guess ants and some others can be systematic) operations which are based on ideas/lines created by humans. It depends on how you define genocide. It's meaning to us is rather modern. Animals of the same species certainly do kill each other. Lions most certainly have been observed to be in conflict("war") with hyenas in certain areas. Even meerkats have been observed at war with each other and even banning some of their own from their group.

Originally posted by Epirus

Originally posted by EmilNomel
reply to post by Epirus

 

the answer of the question in your title "Good humans or just humans as animals?"
is: bad humans!

Thank you, that's generally the view I take. I was just trying to consider alternative ideas that have popped into my head. After all, nature is wild. Even a lot of the "good" humans have their vices/secrets which when uncovered make them seem not as "good".

the other alternative would be: stupid humans

as in stupid to to do the bad things and harm to other beings...
but, many humans learn from their mistakes and eventually become "good" but not humans...
transcending to beings of light in higher dimensions...
these "beings of light" are not humans like us!

Haha stupid humans is correct..

I guess I just see our conflicts as having a much more unnatural effect on the ecosystem, and the planet than other animal conflicts...

I do believe that humans are a race, not the labels we have slapped on people based upon regional descent. So I consider most wars to be genocide, certainly systematic.

Thank you for the information on the meerkats though, I didn't know that.

Originally posted by EmilNomel

Originally posted by Epirus

Originally posted by EmilNomel
reply to post by Epirus

 

the answer of the question in your title "Good humans or just humans as animals?"
is: bad humans!

Thank you, that's generally the view I take. I was just trying to consider alternative ideas that have popped into my head. After all, nature is wild. Even a lot of the "good" humans have their vices/secrets which when uncovered make them seem not as "good".

the other alternative would be: stupid humans

as in stupid to to do the bad things and harm to other beings...
but, many humans learn from their mistakes and eventually become "good" but not humans...
transcending to beings of light in higher dimensions...
these "beings of light" are not humans like us!

I'm fairly certain the world's greatest genius has been born and has died but will never be known because they never had the chance to shine. They were never fortunate to realize their gift through education(I know you'll bring up Einstein's grades but just try to consider the point). Look at countries in Asia(not all of Asia and this is just one example) where a poor person may never get a chance to show it because of the poverty among other hindrances. Not to mention, there are stories in parts of Africa of adolescent children being taken from villages in order to bring them into drug militia because it's easier to shape the mind at a young age. It works but does that mean the brain in that human was stupid? You must be confusing stupidity for ignorance. I think you meant ignorant and ignorance through innocence is nothing to judge as it's not their fault. Ignorance through stubbornness is a different story.

reply to post by EvanJP


Yep. Human animals will commit genocide.

My kitty doesn't set out to kill all the mice or birds. She just wants to kill one and eat it up.



I am amused how humans have, some of them, created a god, who is just like them. Kill em all, then let our god sort it out.

Either a god created us to be like it, or we, humans, created a god to be like us.

I want no part of a god like this.

if you take a step back, good and evil are completely typical human behavior. we separate the two but all in all, it's what humans do.

Originally posted by Epirus
... It works but does that mean the brain in that human was stupid? You must be confusing stupidity for ignorance. I think you meant ignorant and ignorance through innocence is nothing to judge as it's not their fault. Ignorance through stubbornness is a different story.

edit on 29-9-2011 by Epirus because: (no reason given)

according to the online merriam-webster dictionary, the words "stupid" and "stupidity" entered the english language in 1541. since then, stupidity has taken place along with "fool," "idiot," "dumb," "moron," and related concepts as a pejorative appellation for human misdeeds, whether purposeful or accidental...

reply to post by Epirus

Sometimes I wonder if it's really a case of people being evil or people being nothing more than another animal on this earth.

We are animals and we behave like animals, but this does not make us either good or evil. Animals – social ones, at least – have morals too. They protect their young, as well as weak but valued members of their social group; they help each other and share resources, show affection, perform acts of seemingly disinterested kindness, and so on. They are also greedy, selfish and often aggressive or cruel. Just like us, in fact.

If there really is nothing waiting for us after we die and there is no larger purpose (I personally don't believe this but know it's possible) then I think the humans that commit cruel acts are no different than other species in the animal kingdom.

Those who need immortality to imbue their lives with purpose are not thinking straight, and those who need the threat of eternal punishment to make them behave well are morally underdeveloped.

Societal morals were only created by man.

And man is an animal. Morals are natural; all our morality is based on our animal instincts.

I know the evils that occur are horrible and shouldn't happen because we are able to to think on a higher level which is what supposedly distinguishes from other animals but after so many years the atrocities continue to occur.

The ability to reason does not turn us into angels. We are animals, and we cannot help but behave as animals do, for better and for worse. Our animal nature moves us far more powerfully than reason ever could. Sometimes it moves us to do right, at other times to do wrong. So yes, the atrocities will continue. They will never end, although we can, perhaps, reduce their incidence by removing some of their material causes. But the acts of love, kindness and human fellowship will also continue – because, they, too, are a part of our unchanging animal nature.

We try to shroud our actions with ideologies and wars based on self-defence, but are we really different from an alpha wolf beating down its challenger to the position?

You forget that there is also an omega wolf, and that the pack must accommodate both alpha and omega, as well as all the letters in between. That is why societies, animal as well as human, exist. If life were just an endless, violent struggle between individuals to survive and procreate, the waste of genetic material would be prodigious and the species would eventually die out. That is why so many animal species are social; cooperation helps perpetuate genes. And it is from this social instinct that morality arises.

Note: I don't necessarily believe this.

Interesting. Would you like to tell us what you do believe?

Originally posted by kyred
reply to post by EvanJP

 

Yep. Human animals will commit genocide.

My kitty doesn't set out to kill all the mice or birds. She just wants to kill one and eat it up.

I am amused how humans have, some of them, created a god, who is just like them. Kill em all, then let our god sort it out.

Either a god created us to be like it, or we, humans, created a god to be like us.

I want no part of a god like this.

Did you read my post in response to this or did you just jump the gun and reply as soon as you read this particular post? If not read that as I explain the genocide thing and wild animals in more depth.

In response to this: You mean you're domesticated pet that wouldn't exist if it weren't for humans? We bred/created different feline breeds the same way we did canine breeds. Did you think the sphynx(hairless), the Persian or any other domestic cat prowled the earth as a mighty hunter? No we created the various breeds through selection and they love us but their instincts are still prominent just as ours are perhaps? I have 2 cats and a dog. The important thing to note is that the cat still has the urge to hunt regardless of thousands of years of domestication and being fed regularly. (Reminder: I don't necessarily mean this in a negative way and I don't even disagree with you I'm just playing devils advocate...thirst for ideas)

reply to post by EvanJP

Animals do not go to war, ever.

Ants and other social insects go to war all the time.

So do chimps.

lol animals do not go to war...

what do you think humans are doing right now?

just poking fun

Edit: Oops this was meant to be directed toward Astyanax's longer post. I appreciate it thanks.

Very nice response, this is what I was looking for!

I don't think what I believe matters to anyone else as it's based on my perceptions of my experiences. It's also always open to change and I don't impose it on anyone else nor judge anyone else for their beliefs. There is no one right answer.

With that said, I believe that there is more to our experience than just living in a physical body and then dying which ends up meaning "the end". I believe earth is more of a school than anything else(this isn't a unique belief I know). I think that we accept voluntary amnesia in order to experience certain emotions that we couldn't experience normally. I think that the amnesia and the birth of a seemingly new self allows for a whole range of things. I think that we progress and choose our paths based on our experiences and as we get further along we have may less amnesia. Perhaps sometimes the people who are more caught up in which shoes to buy and can't even try to pay attention to a conversation about a topic like this hasn't gone through the process as far as someone like you.(Might be a bad example) I didn't really want to share that as a lot of the time it's discounted as crazy and/or generic but there it is.

This means I generally think the bad people either chose to experience aggression/evil(as an experience before birth) and or they aren't as far along(so they can't cope with the experiences as well and their animal side takes over) and that is different from the idea I proposed above. I'm still open to the idea that there is nothing else or there is something else unrelated to my belief and these people are just selfish and hateful people. To most people it doesn't make sense for anyone to choose to be an evil person but it could make sense as those experiences would be extremely unique and their general self would be under amnesia. It could also coincide with another soul's decision to experience(through rebirth amnesia) whatever pain the evil person caused. Perhaps these horrible things can't be experienced without forgetting who you really are just as the great feelings that can happen while living life on earth.

reply to post by Epirus


you need to watch this...


the answer is at the end!