Should the world(China, Russia, EU etc)conduct a preemptive strike against US before it get too dang

No I don't believe a pre-emptive strike is necessary. The chimp has served his purpose and will be removed in November. Wonder what the real story was while the sheeples were distracted by 9/11 and Iraq?

Again, the bashing of Bush. Can you sheeple not give your own true opinion? on THE SUBJECT of pre-emptive strikes? No, probably too busy watching the anti-bush ads on MTV and Lifetime network.

To be honest, who cares what Kerry did on the boat, how about him coming home and speaking out against the war he is so intent on saving the medals from he recieved. Sounds like a flip-flop. I want someone in office with the balls to stand face to face with any nation there is, I feel alot of people don;t like BUsh because he gets things done and takes no prisioners. Do you want to live in a country with a weakened head of state who abhors war to save us from a pre-emptive strike or terrorist attack? Think about it....

1. America can destroy the planet with nukes.
2. America can (and may be in the process of) teraforming this planet in such a way that Europe will become uninhabitable while relatively harmeless nations in America's sphere of influence would be made more profitable. (day after tomorrow thing).
3. The US military is second only to Germany in their experience and skill at invading France.
4. The only two nations have raided British soil (not counting air raids) since 1066. One of them was the US.
5. The US wouldn't even be where it is today if it wasn't for our skill at killing Germans.

So in the immortal words of Platoon 1040, Alpha Company, 1st Recruit Training Batallion "WANT SOME, COME GET SOME!"

A point would be nice.......

I don't think anyone wants to get attacked. Period. If for some reason you do, feel free to go to one of the worlds many current battlefields and have a good look around. If that doesn't change your mind, feel free to join in whatever war you happen to be around, they always need more people for 'point'.

Ok, if China has the capability to attack the US, why havent they done so already? Because they CANNOT!!(but the US has the capability to obliterate it) and risk losing everything.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by TACHYON]

Originally posted by torque
Re: Australia "we don't suffer fools easily. "

Yahoo Serious. We suffered him, but not much.

Yeah, so did we. Which is why he was probably exported to the US, along with Paul Hogan and the Croc Hunter twit. This isn't a stab at you guys, but almost every Australian "entertainment fool" who doesn't last long here, ends up in the US making a fortune and doing very well for themselves.

Maybe exluding Yahoo Serious...I have no idea how well he did, seems to have disappeared. Perhaps he's still in the US, causing Americans to ROFL with Vegemite jokes.

I am Greek.

I don't hate nor love Americans (or any other nation). I hate and love individuals.

I never said other countries are innocent. I said the US is the biggest country causing the biggest problems right now. If we talked about the 18th century, I would have talked about Britain or France.

1) puts taxes on imported steal
-> it's the revenge game between the EU and the US. Natural protection taxes to protect your own economy. EU and Asian countries do this as well!

2) puts taxes on imported agricultural products; let the poor countries die!
-> the EU gives millions of money to farmers...and later pays them compensation as they need to sell their products very very cheap. Why? Too many farmers - kept alive by the EU and double-paid.

Agreed, but that does not make US innocent.

3) won't sign the Kyoto deal
-> ok that really sucks!

-1 for US.

4) buys pollution percentage from smaller countries
-> again

-1 for US.

5) produces more than 50% of the world's weapons
-> okay sucks as well but EU countried brought some quality land mines to africa

-1 for US.

6) consumes more than 25% of the world's oil
-> don't know if it's that high but some decent engineering for engines should take place, yes.

-1 for US.

7) caused all major war activities in the last 30 years (vietnam, cyprus, iran-iraq, gulf war, bosnia, kosovo, iraq) and many others either directly or indirectly
-> partly true but you can't blame them for Cyprus and Bosnia.

Dictator Papadopoulos was a CIA agent. Kissinger said that the Cyprus files should be kept closed, otherwise there is gonna be havoc.

8) supports most dictatorships (pinoset, contras, saddam, indonesia, musaraf, greece 67-74, etc) and corrupted governments (saudi arabia, etc)
-> this assumes that dictatorships are always a bad thing. Saddam wasn't bad, he had maniacs under control. Or still people here that believe that Iraqis can handle freedom?

Dictatorships ARE a bad thing, by definition.

9) 5% of its population has 90% of the world's wealth
-> now that number, is just wrong.

No it's not. Look it up.

10) one of the few countries that won't accept the international court of Justice in Hage
-> those who accepted it don't give a f* about it as well it's politics not a fair game fluffy puffy flower world.

You are wrong. US was the one of the founding fathers, but they bailed out when they were about to be prosecuted for war crimes in Bosnia.

11) is the only country to have dropped an atomic weapon in war
-> While I think the 2nd bomb was murder I think the 1st bomb saved more lives that it took. And as one lives counts as much as another the math is easy and so the USA did the right thing, even it's horrific.

Bull#. You've been brainwashed. How can you dare say that instantly killing thousands of people is the right thing?

12) has more than 36 poor people (living under the minimum wage)
-> 36? Tremendous

-1 for US.

13) has the highest percentage of urban killings and rapes
-> Been to South-Africa lately? Or Nigeria? Brazil? Just because stastics don't get it, it doesn't mean it's not happening even more elsewhere.

I never said that it does not happen elsewhere. I am saying that certain US regions (like Florida) have the highest percentage of rapes and killings all over the world, for as long as statistics are kept.

14) has the largest amount of citizens with debts
-> No, wrong. Britain said some statistics last week.

Relative to the population, that is.

15) has the highest number of citizens in jails relative to its population
-> this either means that US citizens are:
a) very criminal
b) live under strict law
c) have better law enforcement that other countries

In Germany a lot of people don't have to go to jail as the jails are full and there is no money to build new ones. Cared to visit southern european countries? same thing there, just more extreme. Like Russia? It's one big jail with criminals

It means that people are very poor, forced to steal and end up in jail.

16) has one of the highest percentages in school drop outs
-> don't know. But surely their education system could be improved a little.

-1 for US.

17) has one of the lowest standards of education
-> hm, comparing with what countries? Switzerland an Luxembourg, or Sweden? That's not fair and it's not correct to compare such different countries. And lowest...no..by no means. Maybe low for western countries and in a statistic where Switzerland is #1 because of all the elite schools..hosting European and US pupils.

Comparing with other european countries.

18) has one of the largest differences in capital per head amongst the world
-> it is not that extreme

It is. Check it out. Minimum wage is considered 9000 $. There are 36 million people living below that.

19) has armies in more than 120 countries worldwide
-> so? You should have said they use them for a lot of wrong wars, that's a con.

It shows that the US plays the big bully.

20) is one of the few countries that has a law that allows the government to put in jail one person without any accusation
-> the government? or the police? Doubt the government can do that.

Yes, with patriot act II, they can jail you for security reasons, without the right of a phone call, a lawyer or your relatives knowing where you are.

21) has Guantanamo; violates global signed policies on human rights
-> yea, right, bad

-1 for US.

22) demands 1 milion as deposit in order to participate in the elections
-> k, sucks

-1 for US.

23) has the highest number of TV channels
-> big country and a lot of sources for information - more a pro, or? Maybe you tried to say they watch a lot tv?

TV and materialism have brainwashed them.

24) has the highest number of school killings
-> we had a lot too

Without a doubt. If you are British, then the same goes, in a smaller scale, for your country.

25) the only country to have the privilege of kids passing through gun/metal detectors in schools
-> we have it as well, in some schools.

Isn't that a shame? our kids go peacefully to school every day, settling their differences with their fists (in the worst case), but your kids have to ...leave their guns at the door! how much damage can this do to a sensitive kid's heart, I wonder?

An of course nuking US is as insane as the situation in US itself. Anyone proposing and sort of nuking deserves to get shot.

Of course US has brought lots of good things, too many to mention them here. But are they enough, at the end? I really wonder...

Are you implying that a blacks arn't US citizens?

I am talking about US hypocrisy here: deep down there is racism and blacks are considered lower level people, but US is caching in on their abilities. It is so hypocritical to call them afro-americans! why don't whites call themselves euro-americans then? it is either that blacks are full US citizens or they aren't. There is no middle way.

The list has no supporting sources or scholarly citations, nothing.

Try googling it, then.

So to recoup, I am not anti-american or pro-american (I could write a similar list for almost any country), but I wrote it in order to show you that the US is not the great paradise you are saying it is, or the keeper of democracy or anything else. People in power, worldwide, serve their interests first and foremost, and the interest of big leaders (Bush, Chirac, Blair etc) are international...

Originally posted by masterp

So to recoup, I am not anti-american or pro-american (I could write a similar list for almost any country), but I wrote it in order to show you that the US is not the great paradise you are saying it is, or the keeper of democracy or anything else. People in power, worldwide, serve their interests first and foremost, and the interest of big leaders (Bush, Chirac, Blair etc) are international...

If that list was your idea of fair and balanced, you should work for Fox News!!!!!

Originally posted by masterp
Agreed, but that does not make US innocent.

As well as more than hundreds of other nations on earth.

Dictator Papadopoulos was a CIA agent. Kissinger said that the Cyprus files should be kept closed, otherwise there is gonna be havoc.

The US tried running their own business with Cyprus but the people have their own mind. I have political friends on both sides, in the south and in the north. It's more a result of their own "wargames".

Dictatorships ARE a bad thing, by definition.

That's a cheap answer. They aren't, a dictatorship can, in comparison, be better than another form of government. That Iraq was better of under Saddam than under Democracy is a fact. Many people don't like this thought as it would label a cruel dictator a better thing than our democracy. But for Iraq, he is/was.

No it's not. Look it up.

It's wrong, the USA don't hold 90% of the worlds wealth. THat's just total bollocks! Ignored Europe, Japan, Australia and other countries with a strong economy.

The only thing that could be correct would be that 5% of THEIR population holds 90% of THEIR wealth.
The other statement given is totally wrong and it's no brainer to know that! Just give it 2 seconds to think about.

You are wrong. US was the one of the founding fathers, but they bailed out when they were about to be prosecuted for war crimes in Bosnia.

You say I am wrong but give a comment on a different aspect?! Get yourself sorted before talking, please.
My statement was that beside the USA others don't give anything about it as well, it's just that they don't state it in public.

Bull#. You've been brainwashed. How can you dare say that instantly killing thousands of people is the right thing?

It's primary school mathematics. A good war tactical analyst can tell you that we need XXXXX soldiers to win the fights and give a number of expected loss on civilists and for the enemy.
As ONE life counts as much as ONE other, you can just compare what's the better alternative.

Was the bomb a cruel actions? Undoubtly.
Was it better than ending the war by normal fights, loosing a lot more lives? Yes. It's simple, it applies the easiest human principle that every life is worth the same.

Accept the fact that this action, how cruel it was, was justified and made sense.

Relative to the population, that is.

My thought was that in absolute figures the USA rule and in relative the UK, I think it's like that:
www.travel.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2004/07/29/udebt.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/07/29/ixportaltop.html

It means that people are very poor, forced to steal and end up in jail.

Most people in jail commited a crime because they are stupid and too lazy to work. The amount of those with "no other chance" is a one digit percentage.
Sure you can always excuse yourself with the bad neighbourhood you live in but hey, why do some from there get a grip and go to college?
Because they aren't lazy and stupid.

You want to know why the USA have so many people in jail? No brainer, it's because more than in other countries their citizens aren't popular for their knowledge and intelligence.

Comparing with other european countries.

Cheap answer again. Remember the PISA studies? A miserably conducted study that pointed out that South-Korea and countries like Sweden rule out other countries like Germany, UK, France and the USA.
The problem was just that they compared apples to pears.

It is. Check it out. Minimum wage is considered 9000 $. There are 36 million people living below that.

Don't go that much for the absolute numbers. It's easy to use them to let the USA look bad but the relative figures are important and fair to compare. When it comes to the relative figures the USA is as bad as European countries but better than e.g. arab countries and most asian countries where a top elite holds all the money and the rest is workers.

It shows that the US plays the big bully.

Right, just wanted you to correct yourself

Yes, with patriot act II, they can jail you for security reasons, without the right of a phone call, a lawyer or your relatives knowing where you are.

Patriot Act II isn't active, or did I miss something? I know how bad that one is but it's not active so...?!

TV and materialism have brainwashed them.

True.

Without a doubt. If you are British, then the same goes, in a smaller scale, for your country.

No, German. Same goes for my country.

Isn't that a shame? our kids go peacefully to school every day, settling their differences with their fists (in the worst case), but your kids have to ...leave their guns at the door! how much damage can this do to a sensitive kid's heart, I wonder?

Yes, it is a shame but it's not all fluffy puffy in Greek as well, isn't it?
Read: www.abovetopsecret.com...
One of my best friend and a relative of mine live in Cyprus and Greek. It's not like anything is perfect in those countries. In fact both countries lack many more things than modern western countries.

There is one little problem with the topic question to answer...

China and Russia are too primitive to attack the US, and the EU will not cooperate with them.

If the US will ever threaten the EU, the war may take place.

Personally I would love to see this happen, but in a more productive and fair way. (evil smile)

Pick 10,000 of your elite America and line them up in a big field somewhere on neutral ground, facing 10,000 of Europe�s elite, few choice weapons by each group of men, nothing modern, swords and such like.

Lass I fear the only thing to come from such a venture would be the slaying of 10,000 Americans, mind you, them same 10,000 Americans faced with 10,000 Irish men with no weapons would have the same outcome.

I would love to see the US Army stripped of all its weapons in Iraq at this time, stripping the Iraqis as well, it would make for an interesting battle and interesting end to Americans in Iraq, for they would shred you to bits, just like we would!

Originally posted by SiCkBoY
Personally I would love to see this happen, but in a more productive and fair way. (evil smile)

Pick 10,000 of your elite America and line them up in a big field somewhere on neutral ground, facing 10,000 of Europe�s elite, few choice weapons by each group of men, nothing modern, swords and such like.

Lass I fear the only thing to come from such a venture would be the slaying of 10,000 Americans, mind you, them same 10,000 Americans faced with 10,000 Irish men with no weapons would have the same outcome.

I would love to see the US Army stripped of all its weapons in Iraq at this time, stripping the Iraqis as well, it would make for an interesting battle and interesting end to Americans in Iraq, for they would shred you to bits, just like we would!

It would certainly be great fun if we could settle wars with a single simple brawl. No destroying the planet, no 3-5 years of pure hell for every aspect of the nation's life. Just a few thousand of our most socially challenged individuals taking out their childhood vendettas on our enemy's own group of freaks.

There is still one barrier to the world getting even with us though: not all Americans are whiney little brats with starbucks logos on all of their possessions and lots of piercings to rip out. Some of them are large construction workers of Irish lineage, like my brothers and I.

All America needs to do is send out a letter to members of the Carpenters and Operators unions that there is a free trip to vegas open to anyone who has been arrested for an alcohol related offense in the last year.
You tell them to bring the biggest tool they can find from work, (and specify that thier genitals don't count- the sense of humor is pretty uniform with these guys, and the last thing you need is for every last one of your men to show up unarmed.) So now you've got several thousand guys with really big wrenches, hammers, small jack-hammers, torches, and the like. You get em wasted, you rob em blind with loaded dice on the craps table, then you wake em up the next morning and tell em what happened, and blame the enemy.
A few very messy hours later, the enemy will be dead, covered in blood and puke, and almost indistguishable from the American army- unconscious among the corpses from the effects of a hard days fight on the heels of a hard days night.

Originally posted by FredT
[

Geeeze, take er easy. Did you get a bad load of Vegimite? Seriously though, most people will not act the same way as tehy do ont he boards. Its easy to flame away in cyberspace, but in person is a different matter. That being said, Australia is a killer place to visit and my wife and I hope to go back sometime soon.

BTW, what is the deal with Vegimite?

Nothing. There's nothing good about Vegemite. Horrible stuff. Don't eat it. EVER.

Originally posted by IstvanChina and Russia are too primitive to attack the US, and the EU will not cooperate with them.

Do you even have a clue as to what you're talking about? Or are you just parroting the absurdness you heard from another clueless individual? Why don't you try thinking for yourself for a change.

This is what is happening right now in Iraqi, and it may spread to other mid eastern nations depending on how mad America really becomes on her idols:

Hab
1:6
For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.
1:7
They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
1:8
Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.
1:9
They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.
1:10
And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.

This is whats in store further down the road:

2:8
Because thou hast spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil thee; because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein. (whos going to deal with America but the very people of the nations she spoils...when shes done spoiling and stops then everyone will come against her and spoil her)

But NONE of you will believe this..even though its happening right now in the "end" :

1:5
Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
1:6
For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.

I dont get it with the attitude of the Americans!! Around the global we are feed your propaganda like hollywood (which if Goebels and Hitler were alive today would marvel at it!)..you are the only country that vigorously exports your own culture..a very culture that is the perfect blueprint of what a "babylon" nation really is..a mixture and melting pot of all the nations and peoples of the world under one flag and rule. Read what master p posted ..thats whats been going down since the second world war people its not a lie its the truth. While the world was being slowly put to sleep thinking America is for "freedom" and "rights" in the shadows those with power have been raping the world and overthrowing governments while in the light of day the American corporates plunder the earth.Now how can ANYONE with a half decent funtioning brain deny what the bible says ?? Kings of the Earth..Merchants?? A nation MAD on idols?? WHat is an idol anyway?? its anything you love more than God.I can post a 1000 words on this and not even scratch the surface but its pointless....you wont believe it because in believeing it comes the acceptance that its not going to be all sunshine for the states forever...whats sown is reaped!! If you read what the word says...what happens to America is scary scary stuff....those people are going to be put to sleep themselves....they will be drunk.....partying right while their enemies encamp them and devour them. dont mess with God!!! Thats exactly what America has done!!! Dwelled carelessly before the Lord!!! Read Jeremiah, Issiah, Revelations, Habb...read it see for yourself...i havent made this stuff up!! This was predicted by God thousands of years ago! If I was in America now I would get out and as far away as I could..unless you want to take part in whats going down!

[edit on 29-8-2004 by TruthStrgnrThanFiction]

a pre-emtive strike..nuking a city?? i don't think so. but now one of those countries could feel threatend by past u.s. govt actions, show of force, which then led into some kind of airstrike. now one of these countries many have ..lets say.. a few aircraft carrier battle groups floating withnin strike distance....i could see a nuke being used...or some other type of attack...

Originally posted by TACHYON
Ok, if China has the capability to attack the US, why havent they done so already? Because they CANNOT!!(but the US has the capability to obliterate it) and risk losing everything.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by TACHYON]

Sure they have the ability. Just because you can doesn't mean its a very smart thing to do. I can drive on the wrong side of the road at 90mph. But it isn't the smartest thing. China could attack us and probably inflict massive damages. Maybe even beat us. But it also guarantees they'd be severely damaged as well. Nothing to gain for either side. There is no point in waging a war against an opponent that can inflict massive damage against you. That is why we haven't attacked China and that is why we haven't attacked Russia. That is also why we probably never will.

to all American patriots. Do you honestly believe your country will not pay for what it has and is doing ??? The torture and rape of innocent Iraqi people ?? telling them to stop worshipping their God and at the same time doing that stuff to them?? While standing for "Christianity"????

Only a total mad person could not see this coming people from a MILE AWAY.
Even if you dont believe in the bible, surely you believe in karma?? what goes around comes around?? Heed this warning..because of what has already been done America is going to be taken out so hard and so fast one day by so many enemies (probably a colation of most of the world power bar the UK who will stand agog at whats happening) the entire world will be in total post traumatic stress!!! Look back at history...all the empires fell..and the faster they assumed world dominance the faster and harder they fell.

If i was in America..id LEAVE!

Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by SiCkBoY
Personally I would love to see this happen, but in a more productive and fair way. (evil smile)

Pick 10,000 of your elite America and line them up in a big field somewhere on neutral ground, facing 10,000 of Europe�s elite, few choice weapons by each group of men, nothing modern, swords and such like.

Lass I fear the only thing to come from such a venture would be the slaying of 10,000 Americans, mind you, them same 10,000 Americans faced with 10,000 Irish men with no weapons would have the same outcome.

I would love to see the US Army stripped of all its weapons in Iraq at this time, stripping the Iraqis as well, it would make for an interesting battle and interesting end to Americans in Iraq, for they would shred you to bits, just like we would!

It would certainly be great fun if we could settle wars with a single simple brawl. No destroying the planet, no 3-5 years of pure hell for every aspect of the nation's life. Just a few thousand of our most socially challenged individuals taking out their childhood vendettas on our enemy's own group of freaks.

There is still one barrier to the world getting even with us though: not all Americans are whiney little brats with starbucks logos on all of their possessions and lots of piercings to rip out. Some of them are large construction workers of Irish lineage, like my brothers and I.

All America needs to do is send out a letter to members of the Carpenters and Operators unions that there is a free trip to vegas open to anyone who has been arrested for an alcohol related offense in the last year.
You tell them to bring the biggest tool they can find from work, (and specify that thier genitals don't count- the sense of humor is pretty uniform with these guys, and the last thing you need is for every last one of your men to show up unarmed.) So now you've got several thousand guys with really big wrenches, hammers, small jack-hammers, torches, and the like. You get em wasted, you rob em blind with loaded dice on the craps table, then you wake em up the next morning and tell em what happened, and blame the enemy.
A few very messy hours later, the enemy will be dead, covered in blood and puke, and almost indistguishable from the American army- unconscious among the corpses from the effects of a hard days fight on the heels of a hard days night.

I don�t think so, as I have met many a so called Hard American man (and that sounded so gay!) a Different breed and a different creature altogether.

I would say Irish Americans would be the toughest of all Americans, but Irish Americans have forgotten their Celtic ways and that�s even IF they had any in the first place (lol) even if they took their Ooh so BIG tools (wink) we could just sit at home and send 10,000 Irish Girls (in fact, that might be a better idea altogether!)

10,000 Irish Females coming at yee, an yer owl tools, strike-yee-Jesuas, sure that would be f0cking time for yee and yer ta-be-headin for them-der hills younder!

Shamus asked Paddy how he got his black eye.
"You'd never believe it," said Paddy, "but I got it in church."
He said he had been sitting behind a lady and when they stood for a hymn,
he noticed her dress was creased into the cheeks of her bottom.
"All I did was lean forward and pull it out and she turned around and hit me."Said Paddy.

A week later Shamus was surprised to see Paddy had another black eye.
"I got this one in church, too," explained Paddy.
He said he found himself behind the same woman and when they stood for a hymn, her dressed was once again creased into the cheeks of her bottom. "My little nephew reached forward and pulled it out. But I knew she didn't like that, so I leaned over and tucked it back."

(its all about the Craic)

this one i did like
Have you heard about the Irish boomerang?
It doesn't come back, it just sings songs about how much it wants to.


RIGHT! sorry, carry on.....




[edit on 29-8-2004 by SiCkBoY]

Pre empting an attck on the US? Well, if youre an advocate of global suicide. Sure. If you want to hurry up and turn the planet over to the cockroaches, then yes. You dont pre empt strikes on nuclear powers. Even the US isnt that stupid, they have been attacking mostly small technologically inferior nations without WMD capabilities.