Must I best a sheeple? . :(

I'm not here to aggravate or agitate, not here to cause problems or arguments or flamewars or anything of the like. I just hope to maybe enlighten myself as to why truthers would ever want to consider me a sheeple. A sheeple is, I think by definition, something less than human. Should I be held in such distain by people who haven't met me simply because of something I believe?

That something being fairly close to the official story of what happened on 9/11. That doesn't make me a neo-con, Bush-loving, warhawkish nonthinker. I think the fact that the events of 9/11 werent stopped, with all the evidence that some huge # was going down, is probably criminal. It could have been stopped, thats pretty clear to me from the research I've done.

Believe me, I'm under no illusion that my government loves me, though not an American. I'm Canadian, but for what its worth our current PM is a neo-con cut from the Bush Cheney cloth.

I had a fairly strong emotional reaction to 9/11. It happened at a time that my whole world came crashing down around me, entirely other story.

I've always sort of been conspiracy minded, and have been coming to ATS on and off since around the middle of the year 2000. I'll admit that, in the beginning, the truth movement sort of pissed me off. I felt that it was an affront to the victims of the tragedy.

Over the years, I've come to accept and even in some cases respect the truthers. Passionate folks, and thats rarely a bad thing. I think that in some cases, they raise some interesting arguments, but never enough to get be to go across the isle.

I just don't feel that I'm a sheeple, is all.

reply to post by Monger


I vaguely recall seeing your name years ago...

Hey, I don't do well with OPs... so I tend to stick with commenting to existing ones. It's a lot less headache.

Oh, and don't worry about what others think. Be who and what you are and just do your best to represent it in a way that doesn't get the attention of the headsman... ya know?

Welcome back, I think

sheeple are not self awair, so by that logic you are not

Originally posted by peanutman27
sheeple are not self awair, so by that logic you are not

Uh oh.

barkeep, slide me a cold one!

reply to post by Monger


I don't think you're "sheeple." You sound honest and clear minded, and it is your choice which storyline you choose to believe - in your case the official version, which most of the world believes. We all know there's more than meets the eye surrounding 9/11 events, but if you choose that version then its fine in my book.

I'm on the fence, but I take that position to keep my sanity. Last year, when I joined ATS, I went down the rabbit hole and chased every alternative 9/11 theory out there, and in the end and to this day I am convinced the official story is not true by a long shot. But like all good lies I think the official story has many elements of truth - hence my fence-sitting position.

Anyways, it's good to be honest (as you clearly know already), and let the passionate 9/11 truthers do their work and maybe someday we'll all the learn truth and motivations for the 9/11 tragedy.

Appreciate the replies, guys. Sometimes, it seems, while following threads in this forum, that many truthers instantly consider a dissenting opinion to be either coming from a) a disinfo agent or b) a gormless idiot who believes the government is sunshine and lollipops. Its nice to see otherwise.

Take my advice, invest two hours of your existence, and watch the Video from Architects and Engineers for 911 truth, and if you are still convinced of the official story, then you are, by definition, indeed a brainwashed sheeple and I see no hope left. And of course these 1.500 experts will always stay (deluded) "truthers" then, too.




Personal remark: Using the term "truther" for simple human beings who are determined to find the truth is spiteful and an insult in itself.

Originally posted by H1ght3chHippie
Personal remark: Using the term "truther" for simple human beings who are determined to find the truth is spiteful and an insult in itself.

I honestly don't see how so. To me, the word 'truther', in this context suggests a searcher for the truth. Or, at least, what they believe is the truth. After all, it boils down to a choice to believe one story or another, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Monger
Sometimes, it seems, while following threads in this forum, that many truthers instantly consider a dissenting opinion to be either coming from a) a disinfo agent or b) a gormless idiot who believes the government is sunshine and lollipops. Its nice to see otherwise.

Thing is, to be honest, a lot of the OS supporters here are. Anyone who watches the 911 discussion long enough should be able to tell who's not being intellectually honest, and have an agenda to confuse, and distract away from the physics of the collapses. Physics discussion is not about opinion, physics is reality not an opinion.

If someone, after being continually asked to explain the laws of motion that apply to collapses, either ignore or distract from it, are most probably either "a) a disinfo agent or b) a gormless idiot who believes the government is sunshine and lollipops".

There really is no other choice. The laws of motion are the fundamental laws that explain the reaction between all objects, what happens when they move and when they collide. The resident OS supporters want you to believe those laws are not relevant for many a varied reason that changes when it suits their argument.

I guess if people don't understand those physics they would be confused and side with the OS because it's what we all really want to believe. I would love the OS to be true, we could all relax and the world would be somewhat normal again. People need to be VERY careful what they support and believe, if history hasn't taught us that then we all must be "b) a gormless idiot who believes the government is sunshine and lollipops"."

reply to post by Monger


I see, two hours are too much to handle for you in pursuit of the truth.

I guess any further discussion is futile, so I will refrain from it.

EOM

reply to post by ANOK


Truth is, I don't know a whole lot about the laws of motion that apply to collapses, or indeed psychics in general. I have a laymans understanding of the laws of motion, something between having a vague notion that Newtonian psychics exists and an understanding of how they apply to collapses.

Monger, I would recommend watching the video. Otherwise, it seems you may be here to agitate and are a sheeple as you fear. Do you really want to close your mind to other possibilities? If so, I think that is what a sheeple is. I could be wrong.

By the way, what does Monger stand for? I keep hearing fear monger in my head and was wondering if there might be a back story to your name..

Originally posted by Monger
reply to post by ANOK

 

Truth is, I don't know a whole lot about the laws of motion that apply to collapses, or indeed psychics in general. I have a laymans understanding of the laws of motion, something between having a vague notion that Newtonian psychics exists and an understanding of how they apply to collapses.

Not to be rude, but that is the problem. We have people trying to argue for the OS when they really have no clue other than what other people have told them. To be honest this is the majority of people these days. Ask someone, 'when two objects of different mass collide, which one feels the most force', and see how many people get it right. Do you know the answer? Go look it up. It's important to know, as a start to understanding why 15 floors can not destroy 95 floors.

When we show the real physics, it might as well be a foreign language, because instead of really understanding you have put your trust in authorities that are not telling you the truth.

Learn some basic physics, and THEN make up your mind.

reply to post by Monger


I feel your frustration. I have been a member here for months, but hesitate to post due to the intolerance of those who disagree. I rarely see intelligent discussion or debate on both sides of the issues, but more often see name calling and insults toward anyone with a dissenting view. This even happens to those who are on the fence, trying to research what to believe or investigate to discover their own truth. Basically, its "agree with me or you're stupid".

Problem is that there is so much misinformation and incorrect information being thrown out there that it is hard to boil it down. Take 911 for example.....Ive heard it was planned by the government and the "terrorist" were trained and given planes. Ive heard the planes were not commercial airliners, but government planes with missiles. Ive heard there were NO planes, just bombs. Ive heard the planes brought the buildings down. Ive heard thermite brought the buildings down. Ive heard controlled demolition with cut beams and bombs brought the buildings down. All claim to have facts to back their position. Personally, I dont know. Id LIKE to know. Id like a REAL investigation. But to call me stupid if I question any one of these "theories" is just ignorance and the main reason I look for the answers myself.

I do read this site on a regular basis, but take much of the info provided by "self described experts" with a grain of salt. Those that immediately resort to name calling (sheeple, etc) are the last ones worth listening too, because that is not the way to be heard. Smart, intelligent and reasonable people understand this and tend to present their points in an intelligent manner, so as to help others understand. The name callers should just be dismissed, as they are not here for discussion, but only to hear themselves talk.

Good luck......

Changed mind on post. Deleted.

Originally posted by ANOK
Thing is, to be honest, a lot of the OS supporters here are. Anyone who watches the 911 discussion long enough should be able to tell who's not being intellectually honest, and have an agenda to confuse, and distract away from the physics of the collapses. Physics discussion is not about opinion, physics is reality not an opinion.

Actually, it is your opinion how those laws were applied that day. Why do you think scientists fight every day over who's right and who's wrong in all sorts of different areas? It's because often-times, there are more factors at work than people account for.

Sometimes, it is over-simplified, and so the reality is obscured by trying to reduce the equation too much.

Sometimes, it is over-complicated, and the possibility for error goes up so much that results are sketchy at best.

The point is, just because you think physics should make something act a certain way, does not mean that is the definitive absolute truth of the matter. You need tests and models and examples pertinent to the discussion. I see you cite completely unrelated structures and ignore droves of data just because it either supports your opinion vaguely or is completely against it.

This is why discussions devolve, ANOK. If you don't stop thinking everyone is stupid and conspiring against you, you will be the agent who is destroying intelligent discussion. Remove emotion and stop assuming things about people. You know that old saying, "He who assumes is just making an ass of himself."

a christian is a sheeple .

reply to post by Varemia
So, you're assuming that physics only works some of the time? That's exactly what you and those that continue to back your absurd conclusions are doing. Anok has explained in detail to you how the laws of motion have been suspended in this case, proven it in fact, and yet you act as though he's speculating? Child, please.

Originally posted by ANOK

 

Not to be rude, but that is the problem. We have people trying to argue for the OS when they really have no clue other than what other people have told them. To be honest this is the majority of people these days. Ask someone, 'when two objects of different mass collide, which one feels the most force', and see how many people get it right. Do you know the answer? Go look it up. It's important to know, as a start to understanding why 15 floors can not destroy 95 floors.

Congratulations. You have mathematically proven that a single 1/10 ounce domino can never knock down 500 pounds of dominos laid out in a row. Unfortunately, the real world says you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about.

It's been posted time after time after time that all the floors were held in air between the exterior perimeter and the internal core columns, so every story was literally the exact same in construction and weight capacity as every other floor. Therefore, whatever was able to overcome the structural integrity of the first floor and cause it to collapse, it would be able to defeat each subsequent floor because each floor was exactly the same. THAT has been posted time after time as well. The reason why noone responds to you is simple- regardless of what anyone tells you, you will continue to ignore everything that doesn't support what you want to believe.

It's not an issue of physics, of knowing the laws of momentum, or of knowing how many toilet seats were up vs how many were down when the towers collapsed. It's an issue of some con artist running some damned fool conspiracy web site filling your head with rubbish and deliberately leaving out critical information that inhibits you from making an informed decision, and after a steady diet of this conspiracy propaganda you've gotten the idea that you're an expert on everything. THIS is the very attitude that leads to the smug arrogance that instigates the insult fest the OP was mentioning to begin with.

May I ask just what your professional background in physics is that gives you the authority to make crass judgements on other people? *Before* you started hooking up with these damned fool conspiracy websites, that is?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by ANOK

 

Not to be rude, but that is the problem. We have people trying to argue for the OS when they really have no clue other than what other people have told them. To be honest this is the majority of people these days. Ask someone, 'when two objects of different mass collide, which one feels the most force', and see how many people get it right. Do you know the answer? Go look it up. It's important to know, as a start to understanding why 15 floors can not destroy 95 floors.

Congratulations. You have mathematically proven that a single 1/10 ounce domino can never knock down 500 pounds of dominos laid out in a row. Unfortunately, the real world says you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about...

Im no physicist but that logic is totally flawed Dave..