China Consolidates Grip on Rare Earths

For decades returning westerners have been warning of the Chinese threat, that their sheer numbers and enterprise would one day rival and threaten the west.
We now need to act, perhaps some say we should have used Atomic weapons when we had a huge advantage.
Sadly or not that moment has passed, so we cannot engage them in a nuclear missile fest.
Their army numbers and navy /airforce would crush most regional adverseries.
They will squeeze the west , then gradually take over Asia perhaps including Australia (it owns most of the new mines anyway) and vast tracts of its cities.
The USA will not intervene, just a power balance shift, as Britain was forced to endure after World War 2.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by mikellmikell
I just picked up 96 26 watt CFL's at a local store for 89$ Not even close to 15$ each. Yes I go through a lot of lights but have cut my bill by c couple of hundred a month.

Is this for some sort of business or a grow house? You CUT 200 a month off your electric by changing bulbs? I get irritated when my electric bill HITS $150 or so. I use incandescent bulbs. I don't think I have nearly that many light fixtures in my house and garage together though.

Same here those figures are impossible unless your living in an arena and a big one at that.
We here in (Canada) have already stocked up big time here on our incandescent bulbs and plan to buy more in the near future.
We can't read by those stupid CFL bulbs and we read a lot here.
Back to topic here, I believe China has a lot of countries by the short hairs right now and they are getting ready to yank a bit.
OUCH.
Dancing with the devil comes to mind, but I am not sure that China is the devil here.
Regards, Iwinder

Well, those mining contractors in Afghanistan better start getting busy, very, very busy.
I think it might be political move by China to show how deep world economy is in their sack.
They're propably only major country who actually could afford such a move thanks to their centralization.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
For decades returning westerners have been warning of the Chinese threat, that their sheer numbers and enterprise would one day rival and threaten the west.
We now need to act, perhaps some say we should have used Atomic weapons when we had a huge advantage.

Ouu yee, nuking nation which might in future be economic rival is brilliant thought. You should be an advisor to the white house! Hell, to TPTB!!

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Jordan River

 

I believe that actually is not true. The United States has rare earth deposits and there are many more countries including Canada, Australia and Afghanistan where rare earth deposits are found.

China may produce 95% of the rare earth metals right now but that will change and Uncle Sam will hold on to his stash until every one else's has run out.

And of course there is always the sea bed of the Pacific

Thanks for posting this.

I'm getting SO tired of people misrepresenting this fallacy that China is in total control of REEs. They have locked up the present mining but not ALL of the locations in the US and elsewhere.

I'm actually glad China is trying to pull this garbage. Now maybe we can go back to developing our own resources and stop relying on foreign sources for our needs. I'm all for free trade and open markets but when it comes to certain aspects I think the US should have it's own viable supply of these types of resources.

Also I heard that there are huge reserves under the Salt flats scattered about California not to mention near bonneville.

reply to post by stainlesssteelrat


They actually were considering it , and Maosty stated he was willing to sacrifice tens of milllions of Chinese because there were still enough left to win.
At the time the Chinese could only reach Europe with their missiles, and Britain put pressure on the USA not to fry the chinese,as britain would be cooked bad also

reply to post by Jordan River

This is a HUGE, and I mean HUGE move for china. I knew this day was going to come. This is economic warfare. This is the perfect time with U.S. stocks having a 5 day gain (weak). This will be the final blow that causes the U.S. to buckle. No more will you have 500$ computers. all electronics are worked with these metals/gems . Between this, stocks, food hikes, oil, economic warfare, economic turmoil and other various M.E. problems. I can attest to 2012 being real. I dont think our way of living (as a U.S. man) will be the same in 5 years.

S&F for you. This should be front page, on TV and print. It actually amounts to a national security issue. Most people have no idea what role rare earths play in modern technology. Mention rare earth to the average person and they think you're talking about some new age acoustic band.

Very clever those Chinese..

reply to post by EnigmaAgent



That's what we have effectively done. Export our pollution to China. They choke on filthy air and water pollution from manufacturing while we the rest of the world enjoy cheap products and cleaner water and air.


Seems like a fair deal.

reply to post by mishigas


This now is a simple portrayal of 'Globalization' and the future for us and our oncoming generations. All western world companies decided to shut-up shop and float out to China etc. Prior to the present China to Rule marking, remember when it was said to be Russia that all the required rare Elements?????

Two incidents happened since 2007;
1. China wins major Afghan project
reported by BBC reporter Ian Williams in 2007, can be read via the bbc.co.uk address
2. Something more updated;
www.bbc.co.uk...

What does all this spell out, together with the way that China now owns a major chunk of Africa etc

This was brought up on ATS not long ago.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I know that Molycorp Minerals is building a new plant, has put millions of dollars into it. They are hiring upwards of 600 new employees by 2012. This should help...but will it be enough? Will it be soon enough? They have obviously been more than aware of the China situation in regards to rare earths...

Global Outlook MM LLC

MM LLC plans to restart mining operations and complete an extensive modernization and expansion of the related processing facility. MM LLC further plans to broaden its operations to encompass the production of metal, alloys and NdFeB magnets. The initial planned production upon full restart in 2012 is 40 million pounds REO per year (almost 7 million pounds of Nd and Pr oxides).

....

While the U.S. currently has no capacity whatsoever for production of NdFeB magnets and intermediate magnet materials (metals and magnet alloys), it does control one of the world’ s largest and richest Rare Earth deposits at the MM LLC, Mountain Pass, California facility. Although this significant deposit of critical Rare Earth elements (once referred to by the U.S.G.S. as “ the greatest concentration of rare-earth minerals now known” ) is not currently in full production of Rare Earth materials, it has recently been acquired by MM LLC and plans are in place to bring the facility back into full production over the next couple of years. In addition, with appropriate federal assistance for research and development and capital costs, MM LLC is prepared to move forward to reestablish domestic manufacturing capacity for both intermediate magnet materials and finished NdFeB magnets on an expedited basis

...

Assuming predictions regarding future Chinese exports of Rare Earth materials are correct, MM LLC believes it is unlikely that anticipated growth in demand for Rare Earth materials can be met long term absent development of and full production from both Mount Weld and Mountain Pass, as well as any other commercially exploitable resources worldwide. Without production from either Mount Weld or Mountain Pass, shortages are likely to become severe as demand continues to grow with the further development of Green Energy and Rare Earth Dependant Technologies and significant volumes of Nd may not be available outside of China, at any price. In short, it is MM LLC’ s opinion that in order to meet anticipated global demand for Rare Earth materials beyond the next decade (and possibly sooner) development and exploitation of all commercially viable deposits will be necessary on a worldwide basis.

reply to post by steaming

reply to post by mishigas


This now is a simple portrayal of 'Globalization' and the future for us and our oncoming generations. All western world companies decided to shut-up shop and float out to China etc. Prior to the present China to Rule marking, remember when it was said to be Russia that all the required rare Elements?????

Two incidents happened since 2007;
1. China wins major Afghan project
reported by BBC reporter Ian Williams in 2007, can be read via the bbc.co.uk address
2. Something more updated;
www.bbc.co.uk...

What does all this spell out, together with the way that China now owns a major chunk of Africa etc

Good article. This discovery of over $1 trillion of deposits could, if managed correctly, be the catalyst that is the downfall of the Taliban and the dependency of Afghan on poppy as a main source of income. But there is so much work to be done...building the infrastructure to bring Afghan into the 21st century, for example. And much much more. So the Chinese have a foot in the door. Nothing that can't be worked with.

reply to post by MaximosPoena

reply to post by EnigmaAgent

That's what we have effectively done. Export our pollution to China. They choke on filthy air and water pollution from manufacturing while we the rest of the world enjoy cheap products and cleaner water and air.

Seems like a fair deal.

Not true. We have rules and regs to manage pollution. China chooses not to; that's their business. I don't feel a bit guilty. China will pay for it in 20 years when their respiratory illness costs start rising meteorologically.

reply to post by Jordan River

how long till USA is on its knees and I wont have to work or pay taxes.............my wife just informed me I dont work therefore I dont pay taxes.........oh well

Originally posted by Jordan River


This is a HUGE, and I mean HUGE move for china. I knew this day was going to come. This is economic warfare. This is the perfect time with U.S. stocks having a 5 day gain (weak). This will be the final blow that causes the U.S. to buckle. No more will you have 500$ computers. all electronics are worked with these metals/gems . Between this, stocks, food hikes, oil, economic warfare, economic turmoil and other various M.E. problems. I can attest to 2012 being real. I dont think our way of living (as a U.S. man) will be the same in 5 years.

finance.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Sooooooo....are you suggesting a World War 3?

Afghanistan was a well telegraphed move by the U.S.. We knew the lithium was there long before we invaded.

The Rwanda/Somalia/etc... situations were far more dire, and we did nothing.

Why?

They had nothing we needed.

Mountain pass rare earth mine in Calif is planing to start storing thorium as a byproduct instead of dumping it.
www.molycorp.com...

This will in the long run reduce there cost as in the future this thorium will be in higher demand for thorium reactors.

There are other rare earth mine in the US in the process of permiting.( 7 to 12 years)
www.thoriumenergy.com...

If Obama wants to create jobs he needs to fast track the permits for these

As others have pointed out - "rare earths" are available all around the world - they aren't particularly rare at all.

They jsut aren't being mined because it was cheaper to get them from China. Now the price is going up there's an incentive to reopen mines, start new ones, get them off the seabed, etc.

Actually it might be a cunning plan by "the west" - use up lots of China's RE's in hte initial phases - have them export them all to "the west"....then use your own when the chinese start drying up - some counter-factual economic pressure on the PRC in a decade perhaps...???

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


Actually it might be a cunning plan by "the west" - use up lots of China's RE's in hte initial phases - have them export them all to "the west"....then use your own when the chinese start drying up - some counter-factual economic pressure on the PRC in a decade perhaps...???

My hubby and I were talking about the exact thing today. It would be a cunning plan wouldn't it.

I wonder, has the same thing happened with oil? Taking from everywhere else first before dipping into our stash?

IMHO it goes further than this. China controls most of the chemical industries period. Be it pharmaceutical or just industrial. I say this after having worked in the industry for 7 years. When I started out, no one took China seriously (they took India seriously). By the time I was laid off, it was due to the Chinese being able to out bid anyone. Sure the quality sucked, and sure you could not guarantee when you got the material, but it was much cheaper. This was driven by the west, being willing to put up with bad practices (poor quality, or not meeting deadlines) and screwing of their ecology for the sake of getting it done.

Notice who I blamed however, the west. All the major Pharmaceutical companies shut down manufacturing plants in the west, and either built their own in China, or more likely just contracted it out. So now China controls the area. Most bulk chemicals are made there, and sourced into the west from there. Usually we purified the crap they sent to usable levels, and that was still cheaper...

Ok so my back ground?

I've got a PhD in Synthetic Organic Chemistry.
I've worked in CMO/CRO (Contract Manufacturing Organisation/Contract Research Organsization) enviroments, as both an R&D Scientist, and later as a Process Development Scientist (we take the R&D and make it suitable to be scaled to production). This was all in the USA (around Milwaukee, a quick google will let you know for who )
I recently moved back to New Zealand to re-skill into Bioinformatics (Google it) and research into Breast cancer and other cancers now.
I know a lot about how China works, thanks to a couple of projects for my last company, where my job was to make, and take to plant a certain chemicals including a buffer called (MOPS, used a lot in Biochemistry for Northern Blot analysis), China sold it to my company for ~$40 a Kg, we purified and sold it for ... well a lot more. I was told to beat the $40 price, I did, I could make it as cheap as $21 a kg, but China kept dropping the price, they could sell it to us for ~15 a kg, we could not beat that (the starting chemicals cost more, oh and all came from China, and only China, it's expensive to start a raw material pipeline)... DOH

It's a worry, but we've done it to ourselves, what can I say, capitalism made us do it. It cost me my job twice, and indeed it makes it harder and harder to work in the industries outside of China now.

nothing will happen except china will lose money
we have the largest deposit of lead in the world here in missouri, so as far as not having a way to store energy thats not a problem. as far as lighting thats a no brainer as well.....I believe we invented the light bulb and electricity and the telephone and the computer and every other thing the chinese needs from us to survive