Big banks in France being downgraded by Moody over PIIGS debt holdings

So it begins.

SO IT BEGINS: SOCGEN DEBT, DEPOSIT RATINGS CUT BY ONE NOTCH TO Aa3 BY MOODY'S, OUTLOOK NEGATIVE

Moody's downgrades long-term ratings to Aa3 on normalised systemic support, Outlook negative, BFSR remains on review to consider impact of funding challenges on credit profile

However, a conclusion with a negative outlook on the BFSR would lead to a renewed negative outlook on the long-term ratings. Given this possibility, we are maintaining our negative outlook on the long-term ratings during the review of the BFSR.

However, during the review, Moody's concerns about the structural challenges to banks' funding and liquidity profiles increased, in light of worsening of refinancing conditions, and have prompted an extension of the review. The continuing review will focus directly on these funding and liquidity challenges for SocGen which, given the current environment, could become long-term constraints to the performance of its franchise.

Funny how Moodys (controlled by Buffet) downgrades France's banks but doesn't downgrade Swiss banks (which are very much exposed to Greek debt)... nor downgrades America's banks (which are a total joke)...

Anyway, with that, SAY BYE BYE to the ``Euro bonds`` project... the ONLY way they can pull it now is if they put THE ENTIRE EUROPEAN DEBT ON GERMANY... if Merkel is treasonous enough to do that... WHEN, NOT IF it all collapses, Germany will get hit by the largest depression in history. Yes, worse than post-WW1. And you know only bad things can happen with that.

This might be the beginning of Europe's Lehman brothers... except it's several big banks... and several countries...

The bailout needed will be huge... and I mean, FREAKING HUGE... that is... if they have the money in time...

Jefferies Describes The Endgame: Europe Is Finished

"The bottom line is that it looks like a Lehman like event is about to be unleashed on Europe WITHOUT an effective TARP like structure fully in place. Now maybe, just maybe, they can do what the US did and build one on the fly - wiping out a few institutions and then using an expanded EFSF/Eurobond structure to prevent systemic collapse. But politically that is increasingly feeling like a long shot. Rather it looks like we will get 17 TARPs - one for each country. That is going to require a US style socialization of each banking system - with many WAMUs, Wachovias, AIGs and IndyMacs along the way. The road map for Europe is still 2008 in the US, with the end game a country by country socialization of their commercial banks. The fact is that the Germans are NOT going to pay for pan European structure to recap French and Italian banks - even though it is probably a more cost effective solution for both the German banks and taxpayers....Expect a massive policy response in Europe and a move towards financial market nationlaization that will make the US experience look like a walk in the park. "

Leverage of EU banks : 69X... leverage of US banks : 22X... Capital of EU banks : 1.4% Capital of US banks : 4.5% so kaboooooooooooooooom. The toxic waste those banks have is way bigger than the EU economy.

nonpoint...


no one cares?

Originally posted by baddmove
nonpoint...


no one cares?

Well since this is the end of Europe, I think people will care... in time.

IMO most people are sleeping at this hour.

Update : Credit Agricole, Expectedly, Joins SocGen On The Moody's Downgrade Path

Moody's downgrades long-term ratings to Aa2 on Greek exposures, ratings
remain on review to consider impact of funding challenges on Credit Profile

Meanwhile, the Aa3 long-term debt and deposit ratings on Credit Agricole
Corporate and Investment Bank remain on review

www.reuters.com...
China just said no to bonds too so this is probably going to be another good day...

I'm shocked ZH was carrying this story before any other outlet.

Yep,the End begins...with this,when Greece goes finally bankrupt (which is a matter of Days,at most),French Banks go down too,which was/is expected...and since many Banks sold Bonds to each other in the last few Weeks,we can expect a Chain-Reaction,and the Dominoes start to fall faster and faster with Banks going down left and right...

Now,lets see if those Rumours about a (long planned) Currency Reform this Week(end) in Germany are true or not...

reply to post by BlackStar99

I'm watching the markets and Asia is not taking this well. Tomorrow may be a real long day for Western markets. So many people have shared their views about a brief climb (we had it in the markets here recently) just before the last drop. I wonder if we aren't seeing the start of that at this point.

Yeah notice how China is telling the rest of the world to get your crapola together cos we ain't gonna keep bailing y'all out. The question is, will any collapse of those heavily exposed Eurozone banks bring on an event worse than Lehman? Because if it does, tell me with the debt that sovereigns are now buried neck deep in, how will world governments contain the fallout this time round?

I just read something and wanted to ask: Didn´t Lehman go down 3 Days after it was downgraded?

SocGen Shares Plummet On No News

Apparently the market finally woke up: seconds ago SocGen shares, completely out of nowhere, just took a massive spike lower, tumbling a good 8% on no news. There is a goal seeked version that attributes the move to remarks by Noyer discussing French bank stability may have caused this but this makes little to no sense, as they were supposed to be favorable for banks. It appears like a major block was dumped as someone realized they have had enough with the rollercoaster. Now the question is: "why?"

Why? Insider Info...Something is going to turn very ugly very soon...Ouchy


Edit: And a few Minutes later,we get the Reason why...(and im gonna quote myself from the Market Watch Thread)

Originally posted by Shenon
Austria Fails To Ratify EFSF Expansion, EURUSD Plunges

Yup, Europe is open, and the suiciding has started early.

AUSTRIAN PARLIAMENT COMMITTEE DOESN'T APPROVE EFSF UPGRADE
AUSTRIAN PARLIAMENT COMMITTEE NEEDED 2/3 MAJORITY

As a reminder all countries need to ratify the EFSF, even the weakest links, or else no bailout.

Game Over?

Greece will default....VERY Soon.

The Eurozone will collapse as we know it. This will be damaging for the U.K. as plenty of our banks are exosed to Greek, Irish, Portugal & Italian debt.

This could be quite, annoyingly devastating.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk

Greece will default....VERY Soon.

The Eurozone will collapse as we know it. This will be damaging for the U.K. as plenty of our banks are exosed to Greek, Irish, Portugal & Italian debt.

This could be quite, annoyingly devastating.

I was under the impression that the UK although will feel this, will however not be that impacted since they held on to their own monetary currency and did not drink the Euro kool-aid.

Does nobody find this important??

After WW2, with the various aids supplied to Europe from wealthy US whom got rich from military supplies, wealth was redistribute back to Europe. In time, the connected upper classes regained their wealth. But most unfortunately, they did not redistribute it to their own people that US did. They got richer and with that wealth, it was hoarded in banks.

In time, the European banks had more assets then they knew what to do with it, and thus, insane poverty inducing products were created, spending unconscionably and unwisely by lending it to political parties and their cronies.

Today, its results are clear. The awakened european masses are sick of such duplicities and refused to be scammed once again by the banks and the unfair distribution of wealth by the super rich.

President Obama is showing signs of attempting to use the american funds to bailout European banks. So too is our current good friend Benake, under pressure by them to print money for another bank bailout.

President Obama and Ben MUST NOT yield!!! A huge amount of funds, paid by future generations, had been used to bailout the banks before, AND IT FAILED!! Recovery was not supposed to be use for bailing out banks whom are HOARDERS of money, but only for bailing out the ones whom will CIRCULATE money.

Let those banks fall. It is a free market after all. The CEOs are responsible for their own mess. Much of depositors funds are already out of the banks anyway and are in safe havens. Govs are not responsible for corporate mess, or other govs whom had been seduced by banks to stupidly spend beyond their GDPs.

Germany had paid for its war crimes twice. The free German people must not be made to pay anymore for Europe's ills. So too the american people, fooled by the first bailout. When the banks fall, it is only them that will be hurt and balance few depositers.

If the failed bailouts continue despite mankind's angry protests, it will only doom humanity this time for sure. It is time for recovery, placing money where it WILL be circulated - the people, and pick up the pieces from there to rebuild our world, NOT to banks whom will hoard it up and make slaves out of mankind with further debt bondage.

About time is all i can say.

Time the French government stopped pissing and moaning and get on with what they need to do. A further increase in the retirement age would help also making government cut's like the rest of the EU is having to do would help.

Now snap out of it you clown shoe wearing blaffoons !!

Regards
Lee

I am not an economist. I really do not have a full grasp of how this will affect the world financial stage. It seems to me that much of the world is in deep debt to one of the most communist countries on the planet. So what happens if Greece, France, Europe and even the USA go belly-up financially. Is China simply posturing for world domination both physically and financially? Seems to me that is where the power is anymore. Please educate me. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

reply to post by CaptGizmo


Yes we are not in the Euro.

However some of our banks are quite heavily exposed to many of the countries with debt problems, not just Greece.

Will they once again be bailed out? Would we have any choice?

Of course the U.K. also does much of its trade with Europe, so any further downturn would inevitably impact companies involved in this trade.

The US banks are very much linked to the EUzone banks, more than many people think an example to understand this is the way that the EUzone was affected after the US 2008 market crash and the follow up bailouts in EU by the US tax payer, something that many people doesn't even know about.

Even China was link to the US bank during the 2008 market crash.

Because if the EUzone goes down so they will take US corrupted banks with them as the US corruption was the one that started the now global economic crisis.

If Greece goes down US banks will have problems with the retirement accounts or many costumers, because deals between Greece and US.

So yes, Greece goes US government will bailout the too big to fail again or will face the problem of too big to fail meeting their costumers investment needs.

46 billions of dollars are in the book between Greece and the US banks, that is not all, the more shady deals and dirty deals do not show in books.

I wonder how much more is between the other countries in the EUzone.

Originally posted by applebaum
I am not an economist. I really do not have a full grasp of how this will affect the world financial stage. It seems to me that much of the world is in deep debt to one of the most communist countries on the planet. So what happens if Greece, France, Europe and even the USA go belly-up financially. Is China simply posturing for world domination both physically and financially? Seems to me that is where the power is anymore. Please educate me. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

I've been asking the same question.....turns out America can pay China off in full but we'd have to tank the Whole Worlds Economy to do so... This is all just the 1 World Resource Reform IMO... China is definitely grabbing for World Leadership but more than likely All The Governments are working together behind the scenes. I think they are purposefully invoking fear in the masses so it's easier to herd them into whatever it is they have planned. China uses the U.S. as the Boogey Man and America uses China the same way. Eventually they will both agree on a New Currency that is Neither Chinese nor American and the rest of the world will follow suit...Either that OR the Mother Of ALL Wars is on our Doorstep.

Originally posted by NewsWorthy


I've been asking the same question.....turns out America can pay China off in full but we'd have to tank the Whole Worlds Economy to do so... This is all just the 1 World Resource Reform IMO... China is definitely grabbing for World Leadership but more than likely All The Governments are working together behind the scenes. I think they are purposefully invoking fear in the masses so it's easier to herd them into whatever it is they have planned. China uses the U.S. as the Boogey Man and America uses China the same way. Eventually they will both agree on a New Currency that is Neither Chinese nor American and the rest of the world will follow suit...Either that OR the Mother Of ALL Wars is on our Doorstep.

Many, including myself, sense a change is coming on. I suspect we will see the "Mother of All Wars" rather than a more peaceful solution. If so, It is probably just around the corner. I admit to being a bit afraid. OK A LOT afraid.

Does any of this really matter? China posturing, the US posturing, the EU posturing, all for alleged control? A war, ROFL! C'mon now, let's get serious, if the US and the EU goes bang, there goes 85% of the Chinese export market. If China goes into a financial meltdown, the workforce prices along with productization prices will inflate pushing China out of the manufacturing market. The Eurozone has actually been a bit smarter than the US and Canada, they still have considerably more manufacturing resources than we do in North America, or so it seems anyway.

War may make money, but ONLY IF IT IS NOT attacking your suppliers or your customers. So will India get hit, NO, but Iran will. When Saddam could no longer afford to buy weapons or medicine, what did the US do? Set him up in 88 for the beginning of his fall in 1990/91. A protracted war increases profits in the military/industrial complex (just ask the State department and the CIA, they set the whole Gulf War thing up, the company I worked for moved the arms from the US via France to Iraq in 1988). So, is anything going to come out of an economic failure? Not much, maybe a new currency, but the status quo will remain the same.

Just remember, if everyone is broke or everyone is rich, it's all relative, nothing really changes except the illusion of control.

Cheers - Dave