Scientific Research on Solar System Brown Dwarf and Planet X.

a reply to: wildespace

The solar system doesn't go out to only 26,000 AU. Again, the constraints on WISE can only be used to rule out a Neptune mass planet at up to 10,000 AU and a Jupiter or bigger object at 26,000 AU. I haven't said this is 100% evidence that the brown dwarf, or low mass brown dwarf is there. However, the evidence points to the possibility that there are at least one, if not more Earth sized or bigger planets, and they would have to be kept in orbit by a larger body. Is it 100% evidence ?... No... but as I have stated this evidence makes it a real "possibility".

WISE search wasn't even looking for an Earth sized planet. It was only looking for a Neptune sized object at up to 10,000AU, or Jupiter sized or bigger at up to 26,000AU.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

WISE search wasn't even looking for an Earth sized planet. It was only looking for a Neptune sized object at up to 10,000AU, or Jupiter sized or bigger at up to 26,000AU.

WISE was not looking for planets at all. It was mapping the entire sky in infra-red. It would not have "seen" an icy giant just above absolute zero, but it would definitely have spotted a nearby brown dwarf. Some researchers have used the data to spot brown dwarfs, but none of them have been in the extended Solar System. End of that line of discussion, please.

a reply to: DJW001

Like I said, there is no need for you to participate in the thread if you don't like the topic for whatever reason, and I really don't need any explanation from you for the reason of your hostility, just don't answer at all.

For anyone else actually interested in such data, here is another paper mentioning the unusual argument of perihelion close to 0 degrees of extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNOs) which seems to indicate a large perturber, or perturbers in the outer reaches of the solar system.

Astrophysics > Earth and Planetary Astrophysics

Flipping minor bodies: what comet 96P/Machholz 1 can tell us about the orbital evolution of extreme trans-Neptunian objects and the production of near-Earth objects on retrograde orbits

C. de la Fuente Marcos, R. de la Fuente Marcos, S. J. Aarseth

(Submitted on 23 Oct 2014 (v1), last revised 6 Nov 2014 (this version, v3))

Nearly all known extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNOs) have argument of perihelion close to 0 degrees. An existing observational bias strongly favours the detection of ETNOs with arguments of perihelion close to 0 degrees and 180 degrees yet no objects have been found at 180 degrees. No plausible explanation has been offered so far to account for this unusual pattern. Here, we study the dynamical evolution of comet 96P/Machholz 1, a bizarre near-Earth object (NEO) that may provide the key to explain the puzzling clustering of orbits around argument of perihelion close to 0 degrees recently found for the population of ETNOs. Comet 96P/Machholz 1 is currently locked in a Kozai resonance with Jupiter such that the value of its argument of perihelion is always close to 0 degrees at its shortest possible perihelion (highest eccentricity and lowest inclination) and about 180 degrees near its shortest aphelion (longest perihelion distance, lowest eccentricity and highest inclination). If this object is a dynamical analogue (albeit limited) of the known ETNOs, this implies that massive perturbers must keep them confined in orbital parameter space. Besides, its future dynamical evolution displays orbital flips when its eccentricity is excited to a high value and its orbit turns over by nearly 180 degrees, rolling over its major axis. This unusual behaviour, that is preserved when post-Newtonian terms are included in the numerical integrations, may also help understand the production of NEOs on retrograde orbits.

arxiv.org...


We do need more data to try to pin down exactly what is causing these anomalies, including the argument of perihelion being close to 0 degrees of ETNOs.

We are living in exciting times indeed.

I wonder if Sedna and other ETNOs are formerly rogue planetoids (originating in other solar systems) that got captured by the Sun's gravity.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse
Seems to me a perihelion resonance with Jupiter and Saturn explains things nicely.

You should listen to Gerald clark about this dwarth planet. And the anunarki....or listen to Sacaria Stichen --- the 12th planet... nibiru. a reply to: NeoVain

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Get it? or are you still too busy trying to tell NASA planetary scientists what is and what isn't a type of brown dwarf?...

Since you can't be honest about my point of posting my picture I see no point in continuing this discussion, but no matter how hard you deny it, less than 13 MJ is a sub-brown dwarf mass.

WISE 0855−0714 (full designation WISE J085510.83−071442.5[4]) is a (sub-)brown dwarf

en.wikipedia.org...

Seems to me a perihelion resonance with Jupiter and Saturn explains things nicely.

You will have to explain that one in more detail. The objects beyond the Kuiper Belt do not come anywhere near Jupiter or Saturn, and aren't even influenced by the much closer Neptune. I think what the writer of the article is suggesting is that an unknown large perturber could be doing the same thing with ETNOs as Jupiter is doing with 96P/Machholz.

Now, this thread has a lot more validity than the ravings about Nibiru / Brown Dwarf.

One or more planets _may_ be out there, we just have to find them. Any proposition for a brown dwarf in the outer solar system would have to have a hell lot more evidence to even consider it possible.

originally posted by: wildespace
Now, this thread has a lot more validity than the ravings about Nibiru / Brown Dwarf.

One or more planets _may_ be out there, we just have to find them. Any proposition for a brown dwarf in the outer solar system would have to have a hell lot more evidence to even consider it possible.

No offense you're wrong Wildespace..

Sorry not on your case here Wildespace, but all the evidence is actually there to suggest otherwise..anyone relying on MSM for the relevant info needs a rain check, considering the cover up at hand,although saying that,there is much debate in certain circles that 'the' announcement is pending, we have parties for and against the announcement, but for it to be of any use to people,sooner rather than later will be preferable..the Russians have given their populace the means to research this,as have the Chinese and made preparations e.g. The ghost cities and also the Asian news is tackling the second sun sightings, it's just another story for us in the West though whose news outlets are performing a media blackout.

I have brought up much of the data from this blog (below) on ATS and no one can/will touch it,because it is undebatable and those on the payroll also do their best to criticize this subject,I should know after my first thread was on PX..wow that was tough work..

Here is just a minute snippet of data (well an image of data) illustrating unprecedented particle eddys of magnetons behind the Earth,which have appeared over the last two weeks and this does not correlate to originating from the Sun I'm afraid..plus they are editing,even shutting down this data,and the same goes for USGS,NOAA and the SOHO images..She is coming soon like it or not!

a reply to: wildespace

poleshift.ning.com...

www.zetatalk.com...

originally posted by: EndOfDays77
I have brought up much of the data from this blog (below) on ATS and no one can/will touch it,because it is undebatable and those on the payroll also do their best to criticize this subject,I should know after my first thread was on PX..wow that was tough work..

Zetatalk is an internet cult, not a blog, run by a woman who does not understand basic astronomy but pretends she does. Apparently she has misled you to believe that earth's magnetotail is proof of "planet X," but this is the same cult lieder who also claims that earth is halted in orbit and the seasons are simulated by aliens who are wobbling the earth back and forth, despite the fact that observational evidence proves her claims completely wrong.

unprecedented particle eddys of magnetons behind the Earth,which have appeared over the last two weeks and this does not correlate to originating from the Sun I'm afraid

Sunward directed plasma in earth's magnetotail as depicted in that and other pictures from Zetatalk is not a new, unprecedented, unknown, or unusual phenomenon in any way, shape or form.

these rapid substorm-related flows are usually directed generally sunward

onlinelibrary.wiley.com...
That article was originally published 1 October 1972, decades before Nancy started her Zetatalk cult. You should stop trying to learn astronomy from the likes of the Zetatalk cult. They are clearly misleading you, it's the blind leading the blind. Anyone relying on Zetatalk for the relevant info needs a head check.

a reply to: EndOfDays77
Posting that Zetatalk link over and over will gain you nothing but laughs and ridicule.

Maybe a little Crash Course in Astronomy will let you sift out facts from fantasies: www.slate.com...

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
Seems to me a perihelion resonance with Jupiter and Saturn explains things nicely.

It does not... Already showed that neither Jupiter nor Saturn can affect ETNOs... Comet 96P/Machholz 1 is a NEO (near Earth object), not an ETNO (extreme trans-Neptunian objects)...

Title:
Flipping minor bodies: what comet 96P/Machholz 1 can tell us about the orbital evolution of extreme trans-Neptunian objects and the production of near-Earth objects on retrograde orbits
Authors:
de la Fuente Marcos, Carlos; de la Fuente Marcos, Raúl; Aarseth, Sverre J.
Affiliation:
AA(Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Ciudad Universitaria, E-28040 Madrid, Spain [email protected]), AB(Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Ciudad Universitaria, E-28040 Madrid, Spain), AC(Institute of Astronomy, University of Cambridge, Madingley Road, Cambridge CB3 0HA, UK)
Publication:
Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Volume 446, Issue 2, p.1867-1873 (MNRAS Homepage)
Publication Date:
01/2015
Origin:
OUP
Astronomy Keywords:
relativistic processes, celestial mechanics, comets: individual: 96P/Machholz 1, minor planets, asteroids: individual: 2012 VP113, planets and satellites: individual: Earth, planets and satellites: individual: Jupiter
Abstract Copyright:
2014 The Authors Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the Royal Astronomical Society
DOI:
10.1093/mnras/stu2230
Bibliographic Code:
2015MNRAS.446.1867D
Abstract
Nearly all known extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNOs) have argument of perihelion close to 0°. An existing observational bias strongly favours the detection of ETNOs with arguments of perihelion close to 0° and 180° yet no objects have been found at 180°. No plausible explanation has been offered so far to account for this unusual pattern. Here, we study the dynamical evolution of comet 96P/Machholz 1, a bizarre near-Earth object (NEO) that may provide the key to explain the puzzling clustering of orbits around argument of perihelion close to 0° recently found for the population of ETNOs. Comet 96P/Machholz 1 is currently locked in a Kozai resonance with Jupiter such that the value of its argument of perihelion is always close to 0° at its shortest possible perihelion (highest eccentricity and lowest inclination) and about 180° near its shortest aphelion (longest perihelion distance, lowest eccentricity and highest inclination). If this object is a dynamical analogue (albeit limited) of the known ETNOs, this implies that massive perturbers must keep them confined in orbital parameter space. Besides, its future dynamical evolution displays orbital flips when its eccentricity is excited to a high value and its orbit turns over by nearly 180°, rolling over its major axis. This unusual behaviour, that is preserved when post-Newtonian terms are included in the numerical integrations, may also help understand the production of NEOs on retrograde orbits.

adsabs.harvard.edu...

They are talking about comet 96P/Macholz, a NEO, being locked in a Kozai resonance with Jupiter. They are not talking about the ETNOs being in resonance with Jupiter. ETNOs are too far away from Jupiter and Saturn to be influenced by them. Something else, at least two more large objects, must be out there keeping ETNOs in their unusual orbits.

Trans-Neptunian objects suggest that there are more dwarf planets in our solar system
Date:
January 15, 2015
Source:
Plataforma SINC
Summary:
There could be at least two unknown dwarf planets hidden well beyond Pluto, whose gravitational influence determines the orbits and strange distribution of objects observed beyond Neptune. This has been revealed by numerical calculations. If confirmed, this hypothesis would revolutionize solar system models. Astronomers have spent decades debating whether some dark trans-Plutonian planet remains to be discovered within the solar system. According to scientists not only one, but at least two planets must exist to explain the orbital behavior of extreme trans-Neptunian objects.

Astronomers have spent decades debating whether some dark trans-Plutonian planet remains to be discovered within the solar system. According to the calculations of scientists at the Complutense University of Madrid (UCM, Spain) and the University of Cambridge (United Kingdom) not only one, but at least two planets must exist to explain the orbital behaviour of extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNO).

....

Yet what is observed in a dozen of these bodies is quite different: the values of the semi-major axis are very disperse (between 150 AU and 525 AU), the average inclination of their orbit is around 20° and argument of Perihelion -31°, without appearing in any case close to 180°.

"This excess of objects with unexpected orbital parameters makes us believe that some invisible forces are altering the distribution of the orbital elements of the ETNO and we consider that the most probable explanation is that other unknown planets exist beyond Neptune and Pluto," explains Carlos de la Fuente Marcos, scientist at the UCM and co-author of the study. "The exact number is uncertain, given that the data that we have is limited, but our calculations suggest that there are at least two planets, and probably more, within the confines of our solar system," adds the astrophysicist.
...

www.sciencedaily.com...

originally posted by: ngchunter

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Get it? or are you still too busy trying to tell NASA planetary scientists what is and what isn't a type of brown dwarf?...

Since you can't be honest about my point of posting my picture I see no point in continuing this discussion, but no matter how hard you deny it, less than 13 MJ is a sub-brown dwarf mass.

WISE 0855−0714 (full designation WISE J085510.83−071442.5[4]) is a (sub-)brown dwarf

en.wikipedia.org...

Well said.

There is no Solar System brown dwarf. That's been thoroughly ruled out by WISE. The only ones still discussing this as a "possibility" are on non-scientific forums.

ElectricUniverse quoted:

Trans-Neptunian objects suggest that there are more dwarf planets in our solar system

According to the calculations of scientists at the Complutense University of Madrid (UCM, Spain) and the University of Cambridge (United Kingdom) not only one, but at least two planets must exist to explain the orbital behaviour of extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNO).

That's their model. There are other models which do not require planets to explain the behaviour. Of course if you dig in ArXiv long enough you might find those papers.

Science is about testing models so rather than proclaim that because these scientists have a model that means there is some credence to wacky "Niburu" stories why not be patient and wait for the data that either supports or refutes the model?

originally posted by: UR2BU4U
You should listen to Gerald clark about this dwarth planet. And the anunarki....or listen to Sacaria Stichen --- the 12th planet... nibiru. a reply to: NeoVain

Wow. This statement represents all the Nibiru/ancient aliens/Sitchin believers perfectly.

a reply to: JadeStar


How do you explain that extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNOs) are so closely bunch together having an argument of perihelion close to 0 degrees?

Some large object/s has/have to keep them there. They can't just stay in that orbit by magic.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: JadeStar


How do you explain that extreme trans-Neptunian objects (ETNOs) are so closely bunch together having an argument of perihelion close to 0 degrees?

It is possible that the Solar System had a near encounter with another star which tugged at the outer minor planets as it passed.

Some large object/s has/have to keep them there. They can't just stay in that orbit by magic.

No, they stay in orbit due to gravity. All the bodies out there are not very massive, and they are spread far apart. They do not have much disruptive effect on one another. Eventually, they will probably come into some sort of harmonic with Jupiter and Saturn.

Eventually, they will probably come into some sort of harmonic with Jupiter and Saturn.

Harmonic resonances with the giant planets have been ruled out for those objects with perihelia considerably greater than 50 AUs.