Scientific Research on Solar System Brown Dwarf and Planet X.

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posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: Mogget

Mogget, I am pretty sure you misunderstood what they were referring to. Otherwise why continue the discussion among them about the possibility on how to find a sub-stellar companion? Also, neither Alex, or Michele would have mentioned the need for the all sky information derived from pulsar timing which would give us a confirmation whether or not there is such a sub-stellar companion.




posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


Plenty of examples exist. For example do you have any idea how many near Earth meteors we haven't been able to detect until they were right on top of us? Want a more specific example? The meteor that exploded over Russia on Feb 2013 and we did not detect.


You do realize that you are proving my point, don't you? All of those objects are very small, so they had to be very near to be seen. An object the size of a Brown Dwarf can be seen from very far away; 7 light years, in fact. If we can see a Brown Dwarf from 7 light years away, we should be able to see one from 100 astronomical units away!



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You do realize that you are proving my point, don't you? All of those objects are very small, so they had to be very near to be seen. An object the size of a Brown Dwarf can be seen from very far away; 7 light years, in fact. If we can see a Brown Dwarf from 7 light years away, we should be able to see one from 100 astronomical units away!


That certainly does not prove your point, because even thou such meteors are smaller, they are much, much closer to us. Apparently you seem to think that having another unknown gas giant, or sub-stellar companion to our sun would mean that you should be able to see it like we can see Jupiter. This is not the case because in the case of a sub-stellar companion of about 2-3 Jupiter masses it could be at a distance from around +-27,000 of AU. If we use the constraints from WISE that NASA gave us. That would still put such a sub-stellar companion within the Solar System which extends to around 100,000 AU. We don't really know where exactly the Solar System ends, we have guestimates it's at around 100,000+- AU.

BTW, I noticed that you don't seem to understand that they are talking about 2 objects. One is the super Earth sized planet which would be at around 250 -300 AU, and then there is the sub-stellar companion/brown dwarf which would be at 27,000AU+-. They are talking about 2 different objects.

edit on 13-8-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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Anyways, Mogget, here is a picture of the diagram given by NASA of the constraints that WISE has on detecting a sub-stellar companion a few Jupiter masses.



The limit, as NASA has told us, should be at 27,0000AU, which still puts a possible sub-stellar companion to our sun a couple or so Jupiter masses within the Solar System which extends, as far as we know, to 100,000AU+-.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That chart puts WISE's detection capability at about 0.8 Jupiter masses at 27,000 AU and 2.1 Jupiter masses at 100,000 AU.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:18 PM
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originally posted by: nataylor
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That chart puts WISE's detection capability at about 0.8 Jupiter masses at 27,000 AU and 2.1 Jupiter masses at 100,000 AU.


Yep, you are right about that one. Should have looked at the fine line. ;P It still puts it, if we go by the constraints that NASA says WISE has within the Solar System thou. lol



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:36 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

An object with 2.1 times the mass of Jupiter at a distance of 100,000 AU would gravitationally pull on Sedna (at its farthest distance from the Sun) over 5.5 million times less than the Sun does. An object 0.8 Jupiter masses at 27,000 AU would pull on Sedna over 1 million times less than the Sun does.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 01:10 AM
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originally posted by: nataylor
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

An object with 2.1 times the mass of Jupiter at a distance of 100,000 AU would gravitationally pull on Sedna (at its farthest distance from the Sun) over 5.5 million times less than the Sun does. An object 0.8 Jupiter masses at 27,000 AU would pull on Sedna over 1 million times less than the Sun does.


We don't even know exactly what this object, or objects are. We don't even understand 96% of our universe. What we know is that there has to be these objects out there otherwise these inner Oort cloud objects wouldn't have these stable orbits, or the fact that they cluster so close to each other which would indicate a solid source as the cause for their fairly stable orbits. If their orbits weren't so clustered at around 0 degrees, and instead they were more random it would indicate the cause as being more likely a localized magnetic cloud, such as the one our Solar System is entering within 100 years.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 01:26 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
We don't even know exactly what this object, or objects are. We don't even understand 96% of our universe.

A typical cop-out by the non-mainstream followers. If an object exists out there, it wouldn't be some magical invisible object with extraordinary properties and effects on other objects. It would be either a gas/ice/rocky planet, or a small and cold brown dwarf, with predictable gravitational and light reflecting properties, as well as obeying the celestial mechanics. We know enough about the universe to know what kind of objects exist around stars. _When_ we discover something unprecedented, then we can admit that there's a lot about stellar system bodies that we don't yet understand.


What we know is that there has to be these objects out there otherwise these inner Oort cloud objects wouldn't have these stable orbits, or the fact that they cluster so close to each other which would indicate a solid source as the cause for their fairly stable orbits. If their orbits weren't so clustered at around 0 degrees, and instead they were more random it would indicate the cause as being more likely a localized magnetic cloud, such as the one our Solar System is entering within 100 years.

You're talking about the Kuiper belt objects, right? No one has yet observed Oort cloud objects or their orbits. For all we know, there might not be an Oort cloud, and long-period comets might originate from other stellar systems.
edit on 20-8-2014 by wildespace because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:23 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


That certainly does not prove your point, because even thou such meteors are smaller, they are much, much closer to us. Apparently you seem to think that having another unknown gas giant, or sub-stellar companion to our sun would mean that you should be able to see it like we can see Jupiter. This is not the case because in the case of a sub-stellar companion of about 2-3 Jupiter masses it could be at a distance from around +-27,000 of AU. If we use the constraints from WISE that NASA gave us. That would still put such a sub-stellar companion within the Solar System which extends to around 100,000 AU. We don't really know where exactly the Solar System ends, we have guestimates it's at around 100,000+- AU.


Once again, you are arguing my point for me. According to the chart you provide, a "super Jupiter" would be visible at 100,000 AU. None has been detected, even at that distance.


BTW, I noticed that you don't seem to understand that they are talking about 2 objects. One is the super Earth sized planet which would be at around 250 -300 AU, and then there is the sub-stellar companion/brown dwarf which would be at 27,000AU+-. They are talking about 2 different objects


No, I simply have not wasted my time watching the video. The perihelion "anomalies" are spread out over a hundred degrees, one third of a circle. This is probably not significant.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 04:31 AM
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For all we know, there might not be an Oort cloud, and long-period comets might originate from other stellar systems.


There hasn't been a single observed long period comet to date with an original orbit (ie. prior to entering the planetary realm of the Solar System) that has an eccentricity equal to or greater than 1. That is pretty conclusive evidence that these comets are gravitationally bound to the Sun, and always have been.


The perihelion "anomalies" are spread out over a hundred degrees, one third of a circle. This is probably not significant.


Further data is required, but the "finger" could possibly be significant. The arguments of perihelion of these distant objects should be spread across the full 360 degrees, unless something is "shepherding" them into more tightly restrained orbits. It is too early to form a definitive conclusion at this stage.



posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: nataylor
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That chart puts WISE's detection capability at about 0.8 Jupiter masses at 27,000 AU and 2.1 Jupiter masses at 100,000 AU.

Which I would like to point out, are both well below the ~13 MJ lower mass limit for a brown dwarf, putting them firmly into the sub-brown dwarf category. At that mass range some astronomers would even just call it a planet.
arxiv.org...
A true brown dwarf can be seen from quite far away, even farther than 7 light years. The brown dwarf found by WISE 7 light years away is known to only have 3-10 MJ (arxiv.org... ) and is therefore also in the sub-brown dwarf category (en.wikipedia.org... ) making it quite an impressive find. The researchers who found it refer to it as the coldest known brown dwarf, but really it's more akin to a free floating planet. A true brown dwarf can even be seen by amateur telescopes from much farther distances. I spotted one that is about 50 light years away this past weekend.

It too was detected by WISE in 2010, and by the 2MASS survey back in 1998. I extrapolated its predicted position from the coordinates it was detected at on those two dates and calculated where it should be now in 2014, and you can see those coordinates in this astrometrically solved version of the image; it pinpoints the faint object I detected precisely:
h.dropcanvas.com...
I imaged it in infrared+visible light with my ST-2000XCM. It's some 50 light years away or so, but even I was able to see it. Imagine how bright it would be to my scope if it were in our solar system.





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