International law does not exist.

NATO is not a peaceful defensive organization.

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Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011) of the UN Security Council were very clear in their terms:

"No foreign military personnel, no mercenaries, no weapons to the parties in conflict and inspection of vessels ferrying arms and soldiers"

NATO has breached all four and now is liable for prosecution under international law ,for which they seem immune.

NATO is a belligerent offensive military organism which goes looking for wars if none exist, against targets that do not affect the security of its member states.

It is an organization which violates human rights, violates the UN Charter, violates international law and violates the Geneva Conventions with countless acts of despicable cowardice, "example" bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, the support for the KLA terrorist organization, the abuses committed in Afghanistan, the illegal invasion of Iraq and the horrific human rights abuses committed there also deploying Depleted Uranium in Kosovo, in Iraq and now possibly in Libya as well ,flatting civilian structures and historical monuments and sites,like the town of Sibrat, full of priceless Roman antiquities, was bombed by NATO ,This is a crime against Humanity. and now the destruction of the Libyan water pipeline and the only factory capable of repairing it ,is to clearly break the spirits of the civilians who refuse to let there country be raped of its resources,Hitler would be proud.

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In which international lawbook is any of this sanctioned or condoned ,It is not ,and therefore these are war crimes.
Why are the leaders of NATO not sitting in the dock at The Hague ,i tell you why ,because international law does not exist ,NATO is sowing dangerous precedents and is constituting not only its own obvious threat to international security, but also poses a direct risk to the internal security of its member states.

The longer this conflict in Libya goes on, the more sinister NATO has become.

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It is difficult to know what NATO wants out of this ,it certainly not peace, for they refused to negotiate point blank It's not democracy either, for they refused to heed the call for elections by Gaddafi ,in which he said the UN can monitor it for foul play ,so it must simply be to steal a sovereign country's resources by murdering its people.

On June the 7th NATO had killed 856 innocent civilians ,109 of those were children ,and at least 523 civilians were seriously injured or maimed and 3,332 received minor injuries ,and now with the massive bombing in Tripoli and Sirte ,that number is set to double.

So much for NATO protecting the people of Libya from Gaddafi ,the people of Libya need protecting from NATO ?

reply to post by TheMaverick


Well said and i agree with this

"No foreign military personnel, no mercenaries, no weapons to the parties in conflict and inspection of vessels ferrying arms and soldiers"

but sadly the rebels are western mercenaries and whats worse ANATO did brought them weapons from the cargo ships in east libya.

I am all for the US pulling out. We have no business whatsoever in Libya, Somalia, Yemen or the several other places where war has not been declared and we have no national security interest. We also need to end the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan as well as close all foreign bases while cutting off all foreign aid.

Here's Mahdi Nazemroaya who was trapped in the Rixos Hotel, Interviewed on the 22nd of August 2011 were he talks about western media are telling blatant lies about Tripoli ,were he says most of those fighting are in fact people of Tripoli ,which really explains why NATO has shut the water supply down ,to break the people of Tripoli into submission.

And he thinks Blackwater/Xe are in full force in Libya.



Also here is the latest speech from Saif Isalam Speech Translated 31st August.

I'm speaking to you from area around Tripoli , I just like to assure all Libyan brothers today i went to Azizia we met people there and we met with Warshfana Tribe , and from Aldawahi alarbaa , and some areas around Tripoli , i meet lots people , we are fine , and we still fighting , and the victory will be declared , also we heard that Warfalla Tribe had a meeting because rats threaten this tribe the had decided and declared that they will fight rats.

To hell NATO to hell rats , although NATO is killed many innocent people , And Fezzan still resist also they had meeting and decided that we will never give up and about the rats who threat people in Sirte City then ok come welcome to Sirte there is 20 thousand volunteers ready to fight you , also the leader is fine and we are all fine don't worry about us , Also i have message to the people in Albeida and Toubrok and Zliten and Tripoli i tell you to move now , don't miss this chance , attack rats now , you have to fight them day and night , everyone is Gaddafi , Everyone is Saif Islam , Everyone is Khamis , Also about Bab Azizia you are lairs because bab Azizia is destroyed completely because they attack it 64 times , inter or exist from it isn't meaning anything , but this only to make people confused , i tell you that your army is fine and tribes still fine.

I called all tribes and all the answer is go to hell we will never give up , NATO will leave soon , and big improve is the rats we killed on Alshat road is mercenaries from France , Italy , UK , Qatar and we will kill them , and all people who give up to rats they did it on purpose to protect their family , about NATO you are the must stupid people , even people who said that they are the leaders in Tripoli is from Qaeda and you support those members , today i went to Tribes of Warshfana in all ways i didn't find any rats in way they are afraid , and even some areas in Tripoli i didn't find any rats , I tell Bosliem And Alhadba prepare yourslef Victory or Martyrdom

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
I am all for the US pulling out. We have no business whatsoever in Libya, Somalia, Yemen or the several other places where war has not been declared and we have no national security interest. We also need to end the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan as well as close all foreign bases while cutting off all foreign aid.

Well, y'all got to use less gasoline now and retreat into Fortress America, because God in his infinite wisdom gave the west all the brains and good lookin women, but the Arabs got all the damn oil. Without enough oil, the western civilisation crumbles. Without $ from oil, the Arab countries crumble. Somehow in the cesspit of intrigue a course must be navigated to ensure the continued supply of oil to the west and the security of stable friendly governments of like mind.
You can see how successful this has been, until we went completely nuts.

We have plenty of oil here, the tree huggers just won't let us get to it.

reply to post by TheMaverick


If I understand you, the thrust of your post is that NATO should be held liable for committing four crimes because they violated a specific portion of UN Security Council Resolutions 1970 and 1973.

When I went to the UN website to read those resolutions, I was unable to find anything like the quote you opened your post with. In fact, I found nothing indicating that a regional organization (which is what NATO is) committed any crime or clearly violated the resolution.

Would you be so kind as to point out to me where, in 1970 or 1973, that quote can be found? Failing that, please direct me to that portion of either resolution that you think NATO is violating.

2011 UN Security Council Resolutions

reply to post by charles1952

that you think NATO is violating.

NATO Did violate the the law

When I went to the UN website to read those resolutions, I was unable to find anything like the quote you opened your post with. In fact, I found nothing indicating that a regional organization (which is what NATO is) committed any crime or clearly violated the resolution.

you believe anything you see on the corrupt UN Website?

I found nothing indicating that a regional organization (which is what NATO is) committed any crime or clearly violated the resolution.

NATO did violated the resolution which NATO gave Close air support which in the resolution it doesnt say gave rebels Close air support now does it? the resolution gave NATO to protected civilians in east of libya and around the area of benghazi the resolution didnt say go kill and bomb gaddafi forces and let the rebels win now did it?

Dear Agent_USA_Supporter,

Thank you for sending me a post.

It really didn't answer my question, though, did it?

First, would you show me precisely where in either of resolution 1970 or 1973, you found the quote at the top of your original post?

that you think NATO is violating.

NATO Did violate the the law

Second, assuming only for the purpose of this post, that NATO did break a law, what law? Where is it spelled out?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Here you go Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011)

If it wasn't so late at night for me, and i didn't have to work in the morning ,i love to point out the details for you ,so your have to read the small print yourself. ENJOY !

Click here for more information.

reply to post by charles1952


*snip*


NATO has committed war crimes in the past as it did with in libya just like Mahdi Nazemroaya has said and also nice try with your little lie but i dont drink nor take drugs

Sorry to say this but stop inuslting me.

Originally posted by TheMaverick

Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011) of the UN Security Council were very clear in their terms:

"No foreign military personnel, no mercenaries, no weapons to the parties in conflict and inspection of vessels ferrying arms and soldiers"

NATO has breached all four and now is liable for prosecution under international law ,for which they seem immune.

Resolutions 1970 (recalled) and 1973 (2011) are aimed at the Libyan regime. The quote in the OP is made up by the way, I read both resolutions and I can't find it.

Well I`m going to go out on a limb here and say.
Laws don`t need followed by the makers or is that enforcers if it be in the Middle East or right here at home.
Take filming cops as an example (Illinois). They film we can`t or take TSA are they searched on the job? They could be that loop hole to passing a terrorist through.

I want watchers watching the watchers that even have watchers. Jobs for us all. Paid for by the makers.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Insulting you? You thought I was insulting you?

As you no doubt saw, I offered an apology in the very same note you complained about. I was certainly not trying to be offensive. Leaving that aside for the moment. What have I learned?

The quote used in the OP is completely false. It was not in Res. 1970, it was not in Res. 1973. Most of the OP depended on that false quote. I don't know what constitutes a hoax on ATS. Would an intentionally false statement be a violation of our code? I don't know.

The link you gave me was to a press release from the United Nations that only discussed Resolution 1973, not 1970 and 1973 as you wrote. The press release (even though labeled as a press release and not the actual resolution) did not have the quote in it either. I wonder what the source of the quote is.

The picture you posted in the OP was particularly violent, ugly, and hateful. It appears to be much more insulting than anything I have ever said. It deserves to be removed.

Your OP and other comments appeared to be stating facts instead of opinions. I can't recall seeing facts that were so completely and provably wrong.

If I were looking to learn about the problems of the Middle East, my first requirement would be finding a source for facts that were true at least SOME of the time.

Having finally had the time to go read the resolutions myself, I must join the call of "hoax". Mods, please move this to the hoax bin or something.

ATTENTION!!!

Please discuss the topic and not other members. Personal remarks detract from the conversation and are not fair to other members contributing and/or reading the thread.

ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics

YOU are responsible for your own posts

reply to post by sonofliberty1776

Having finally had the time to go read the resolutions myself, I must join the call of "hoax". Mods, please move this to the hoax bin or something.

a hoax i dont think so i looked at it carefully, your just defending NATO.

reply to post by cripmeister

Resolutions 1970 (recalled) and 1973 (2011) are aimed at the Libyan regime. The quote in the OP is made up by the way, I read both resolutions and I can't find it.

Made up are you for real ,i find your post insulting ,and clearly you never read the resolution ,and clearly just trying to attack whatever i post.
reply to post by sonofliberty1776

Having finally had the time to go read the resolutions myself, I must join the call of "hoax". Mods, please move this to the hoax bin or something.

hoax bin WTF are you for real.
OK for those that can't be arsed to read through it all properly ,you will find it all in there.
Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations.

1. Demands the immediate establishment of a cease-fire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians;
2. Stresses the need to intensify efforts to find a solution to the crisis which responds to the legitimate demands of the Libyan people and notes the decisions of the Secretary-General to send his Special Envoy to Libya and of the Peace and Security Council of the African Union to send its ad hoc High Level Committee to Libya with the aim of facilitating dialogue to lead to the political reforms necessary to find a peaceful and sustainable solution;
3. Demands that the Libyan authorities comply with their obligations under international law, including international humanitarian law, human rights and refugee law and take all measures to protect civilians and meet their basic needs, and to ensure the rapid and unimpeded passage of humanitarian assistance;

4. Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council;

13. Decides that paragraph 11 of resolution 1970 (2011) shall be replaced by the following paragraph : "Calls upon all Member States, in particular States of the region, acting nationally or through regional organisations or arrangements, in order to ensure strict implementation of the arms embargo established by paragraphs 9 and 10 of resolution 1970 (2011), to inspect in their territory, including seaports and airports, and on the high seas, vessels and aircraft bound to or from the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, if the State concerned has information that provides reasonable grounds to believe that the cargo contains items the supply, sale, transfer or export of which is prohibited by paragraphs 9 or 10 of resolution 1970 (2011) as modified by this resolution, including the provision of armed mercenary personnel, calls upon all flag States of such vessels and aircraft to cooperate with such inspections and authorises Member States to use all measures commensurate to the specific circumstances to carry out such inspections";

16. Deplores the continuing flows of mercenaries into the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya and calls upon all Member States to comply strictly with their obligations under paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011) to prevent the provision of armed mercenary personnel to the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya;

21. Decides that all States shall require their nationals, persons subject to their jurisdiction and firms incorporated in their territory or subject to their jurisdiction to exercise vigilance when doing business with entities incorporated in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya or subject to its jurisdiction, and any individuals or entities acting on their behalf or at their direction, and entities owned or controlled by them, if the States have information that provides reasonable grounds to believe that such business could contribute to violence and use of force against civilians;

in-fact if you read it properly NATO has violated many things in the Resolution

Now clearly those calling hoax haven't read the resolution and only intrested in discrediting my thread ,also i don't have the time or space left in this post to add more as work calls.
and claiming other members are drunk or on drugs "Outrageous"

reply to post by TheMaverick

You certainly did one hell of a job of taking this resolution out of context! This is basically a set of demands the Libyan Government needs to comply with in order to stop NATO's intervention.

I agree with you on one point though:
This thread doesn't belong in the "Hoax" area. IT BELONGS IN THE GARBAGE!

See ya,
Milt