what would it be like if the Elite weren't hoarding money?

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Not quite.

Lets go with an easy example - If McDonalds employees make $100.00 an hour, how much does a Big Mac now cost? Also, the cost of living in housing, etc would also shoot up to MATCH the average wage. Also, with the Chinese paying 1/10 the wages, there would now be no manufacturing jobs in the US at all as labor cost would now make it impossible to sell your goods anywhere.

Everything cost, and I mean everything costs what the market will bear. If average wages went up ten fold, the cost of living would shoot up to match. An example of this is YOU. You own a home that is worth 100K, well now everyone makes 10X what they did and you can sell your house for 1 million as there are now plenty of people who can afford it... are you going to sell your house for 1 million or 100k....... really.

Everyone sells stuff for what they can get for it. Landlords rent for as much as they can get for their house, manufacturers sell items for whatever the market will bear. If everyone is a multi-millionaire, who is keeping the utilities working?

Originally posted by infolurker

Everyone sells stuff for [color=gold] what they can get for it. Landlords rent for [color=gold] as much as they can get for their house, manufacturers sell items for [color=gold] whatever the market will bear. If everyone is a multi-millionaire, who is keeping the utilities working?

Allow me to devils advocate here.

The thread was designed to look at the day after everyone has gotten "as much as they can get".
A sort of, "now what" question.
I mean, obviously someone already has all that money.

As to the last sentence.
Society should make up it's mind.
Are we going to automate all the hard work,
or are we going to require everyone to get a job and keep working.

Cause right now, everytime someone demands a job, we are sung a song about
how that job no longer exists.
But everytime someone can't pay their bills they are told to get a better job.

Seems Schizophrenic.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by davidgrouchy

 

Not quite.

Lets go with an easy example - If McDonalds employees make $100.00 an hour, how much does a Big Mac now cost? Also, the cost of living in housing, etc would also shoot up to MATCH the average wage. Also, with the Chinese paying 1/10 the wages, there would now be no manufacturing jobs in the US at all as labor cost would now make it impossible to sell your goods anywhere.

Everything cost, and I mean everything costs what the market will bear. If average wages went up ten fold, the cost of living would shoot up to match. An example of this is YOU. You own a home that is worth 100K, well now everyone makes 10X what they did and you can sell your house for 1 million as there are now plenty of people who can afford it... are you going to sell your house for 1 million or 100k....... really.

Everyone sells stuff for what they can get for it. Landlords rent for as much as they can get for their house, manufacturers sell items for whatever the market will bear. If everyone is a multi-millionaire, who is keeping the utilities working?

This is all a lie. We have had no increase in wealth for the lower 99% of the population in the last 20 years but prices have still doubled. Due to that lack of increase in wealth though, we produce less and less tangible goods in this country each year. We have the ability to increase supply drastically. so that an expansion of the money (not debt based) supply does not have to be infaltionary.

The real answer is 20 hour work weeks with minimum pay equal to a modest existence in modern society. Maybe prices would have to rise, but there is a point that wages and prices can reach a parity equaling the ability to live in dignity.

reply to post by davidgrouchy

The stats are in, and it's conclusive.
90% (I think, can't remember) of poeple who win the lottery
are worse off in ten/twenty years than before they won it.

They have aquired expensive tastes, but are now broke.

As opposed to actually having a financial manager come with the winnings,
the money is just dumped on them.

This way the rich can say to each other,
"see! You see what happens when we give them money!?"

Well, that's exactly why there are rich people and poor people. If people who can't control their spending are given more money every time it creates a problem. Government anyone?

Originally posted by boncho

Well, that's exactly why there are rich people and poor people. If people who can't control their spending are given more money every time it creates a problem. Government anyone?

But I thought it was the Government in collusion with Corporations
that stopped the teaching of fiscal literacy in the schools.


David Grouchy

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

We have had no increase in wealth for the lower 99% of the population in the last 20 years but prices have still doubled. Due to that lack of increase in wealth though, we produce less and less tangible goods in this country each year. We have the ability to increase supply drastically. so that an expansion of the money (not debt based) supply does not have to be infaltionary.

Productivity is terrible. There are so many useless/pointless jobs today. One anecdote, a person I know quit their job and no one at the office realized until over a week later.

People need to focus on businesses that yield results, that produce and/or provide valuable services to the community. But that is something that has to change with people who are going into positions of power from the next generation.

Basically, it's up to teaching the future decision makers what the world needs.

There are actually a few great corporations out there that do some amazing stuff in relation to what I'm talking about. And I'd love to fill people in but confidentiality forbids it. Mind you, some of them are doing quite successful and it's important to keep a look out for the ones that are making positive changes and ensure your money is going to them as opposed to some of the blood sucking ones.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by boncho

Well, that's exactly why there are rich people and poor people. If people who can't control their spending are given more money every time it creates a problem. Government anyone?

But I thought it was the Government in collusion with Corporations
that stopped the teaching of fiscal literacy in the schools.

David Grouchy

edit on 30-8-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)

I was implying Government was the problem... They are no better than the run down family that wins the lottery and buys an Escalade for every living/dead family member while booking 10 separate vacations at hotel/casino resorts...

Man,
back in the day I was working an hourly wage and this one youngster really wanted to get off early.
It was friday night, and I was schedualed off an hour before close.
He said "Man close for me."
I said "Twenty bucks"
He gave me a twenty and clocked out super happy.

We were making $8 an hour.
He had only worked 4 hours that evening.
After taxes, he had just paid me his entire nights earnings.

But that's not the weird part.
Word got around that I'd work late or pick up a shift for $20.
For the next month I made major bank.

These kids honestly thought that $20 was nothing, a fair price.
They never seemed to realize they were paying me to
take their shift _and_ earn an hourly wage in their place.
So they were both losing the income, and paying out for an expense.

By the end of the second month most of them were in debt
to other employees.

Money really has been enchanted in the popular mind,
and almost no one uderstands basic math any more.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
I am disappointed that the "system" was unable
to bring more people to a higher standard of living,

I'm not. Hundreds of millions of Chinese was lifted from poverty. Go China!!!

Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by Kaiuk

 

It's not that they're just hoarding money, it's that they are hoarding resources and other physical assets.
there's no reason someone needs 100 sports cars, or a dozen mansions. Not only does no one need that many things, no one deserves that much.

I do.

Well, if the super-rich persons and corporations weren't hoarding, they wouldn't be contributing to the destruction of the systems that are feeding their money needs.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Lottery is just a business designed for profit. A lottery system could only award a set amount but its income is proportional to the number of people betting.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
This is all a lie. We have had no increase in wealth for the lower 99% of the population in the last 20 years but prices have still doubled.

Becasue you know, there's demand elsewhere? LIke abroad?

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
The answer is a progressive tax on wealth which insures most of the wealth accumulated in a lifetime is returned back to the system over time. Done right this could eliminate the income tax alltogether.

Or create a law that requires everyone to spend X percentage of their income on whatever. It's the same thing. Regulate everyhing.

Originally posted by Kaiuk
reply to post by Ghost375

 

What do you mean deserves? They earned their money they get to spend it. Thats how the game works.

I know the game, monopoly right?

Game time is over children, your father is coming home.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Aeons


The only system they're destroying are the western countries'. They have new cash cow now.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


I disagree with the images. If the 'Elite' (God I hate people using that word, everytime I read it it makes me want to rant. Don't people realise by using it, all they are actually doing is subconciously telling themselves that they are 'lesser beings' than these so called 'Elites'. Grrrrr) stopped hoarding money it would not greatly affect the quality of life of the majority of people.

Money does not exist, only debt exists. For the 'Greeders' to be filthy rich, there has to be massive debt else where. If they were to give that money away, it would simply go to pay off debt. Strangely enough, if you took all the money from the 'Greeders' and tried to pay off the world's debt, you couldn't do it, impossible.

The crazy debt levels will always be there, they are only going to increase. The reason for the concern over debt at the moment is simply because money has stopped flowing, when the money stops flowing, the debt becomes visible.

The whole capitalist/monetary system is a complete con job. One massive ponzi scheme. The day we humans stop being materialistic and abandon the monetary system all together, is the day we will actually begin to realise who we really are.

We should be showing more compassion and empathy for our fellow man. We shouldn't be allowing each other to struggle through life worrying and stressing about paying bills and stuff. We should just give everyone what they need to live a comfortable and happy life.

However, sadly, that won't happen in my lifetime, because as soon as you remove money, you remove status, everyone becomes equal. There are way too many 'Greeders' and materialistic people in this world, even too many people ruled by their own egos, who could not face a life of being the same as everyone else.

That's the world I see anyways!

st.

Originally posted by SatoriTheory

The whole capitalist/monetary system is a complete con job. One massive ponzi scheme. The day we humans [color=gold] stop being materialistic and abandon the monetary system all together, is the day we will actually begin to realise who we really are.

What is this.
A hippie manifesto?

I agree with the entire rest of the post.
Fair analysis, accurate in it's understanding.
But this bit right here ... well...

Lead the way. Stop eating. It's just being materialistic to do so.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
What is this.
A hippie manifesto?

Come on David, open your mind dude. I'm no hippie, or tree hugger. I just happen to see the world we live in for what it really is. I am willing to be blunt about what we humans are currently like. We don't know who we are because we are too concerned with the material world. Got to have the latest pointless iToys, 3DTVs, flash cars, designer clothes.

Lead the way. Stop eating. It's just being materialistic to do so.

David Grouchy

Eating is not materialistic, it's a necessity.

If you want to live in a materialistic world, fine, but if you do, then you shouldn't really complain about the 'filthy rich'. You can't have one without the other.

st.

Originally posted by SatoriTheory

Come on David, open your mind dude. I'm no hippie, or tree hugger.

I know you're not.
But it was fair to caracterize the statement that way.
Well... ok, maybe it was unfair and slanderous.

If you want to live in a materialistic world, fine, but if you do, then you shouldn't really complain about the 'filthy rich'. You can't have one without the other.

st.

What do [color=gold] I want?
Thanks for asking.

I want the elite to quit with all the punative measures expressed in financial confiscation.
I want everyone who can read and write to be paid, minimum, what they were paid
in the gorram middle ages.
I mean the hypocracy really is aeon's long, isn't it.

elite: oh you're a peasant, frugal with your money, but you can't read, you deserve to live in the dirt.

we the people: ok, well if you won't let us learn to read, we will revolt, make a new country, and teach everyone to read.

200 years later
elite: oh you're irresponsible with money, you deserve to live in the dirt.

we the people:


David Grouchy