The assault on tradition: A conspiracy? Help me understand, ATS.

Hello. Today I want to look at changes in “tradition” – mostly social norms, the erosion of what people often call “traditional values” and old ideas about what is right and wrong. And I want to try to get to the bottom of whether it is a conspiracy or not. And if so, by who? If its not a conspiracy, why is it happening? Or is it even happening at all?

By “tradition” I mean norms, values, habits, and manners rooted in “the old ways.” Not necessarily religious, but often influenced strongly by religion. Yet just as often based on the practicalities of working together as humans in a simpler time, when a man's word was his bond and reputation was more than the number of Facebook friends. Traditional norms regulated conduct in the bedroom and in business, in child-rearing and in the rituals of life's turning points. Traditional morality differed in different places -- European traditions are obviously different from Chinese traditions, or African ones, etc. -- but it shares the quality of tradition. Areas governed by traditional morality include basic family structure, sexuality, relations between men and women, relations between the young and the old, public etiquette, business ethics, comportment and bearing, one's use of the spoken word, personal cultivation, construction of life goals, maintenance of community ties, and so on.

I am earnestly trying to come to terms with the changes in the social and cultural landscape that have taken place over the last 40 or 50 years and only seem to be accelerating. I do not come here with preconceived notions about why this is happening (although at various times in my life I have held very firm ideas on this topic). I come here with an open mind, to hear what you people have to say, and to hammer it out.




Every culture seems to go through an arc of rise and fall, whereby tradions arise and vanish. Does this happen "naturally" -- or can/should the clock be turned back before its too late? From a series of paintings by Thomas Cole, 1830s.



The question becomes: Why are traditions vanishing? One could chalk it up to changing times, but I think it is more than that because we see an aggressive and sustained assault on these values from the media, from academia, and from numerous other nodes within society. Whether it is the anti-traditional-family messages of Hollywood or the academic project to "deconstruct" culture, there seems to be a forceful and sustained effort by powerful players in society to break down old ideas and ideals as rapidly as possible.

Now, I would like to consider this issue . Like I said, this is an issue I keep turning over and over in my mind and I have no clear idea why this is happening. This is where you come in. We need to explore and brainstorm this together, deny ignorance and figure out the real reason or reasons.

Here are some ideas I've been working with. I'm sure there are lots more. Just to get us started...

Do changes in values simply reflect changing times and changing needs? Maybe the old ways are no longer adequate. Or is this a cop-out, especially if somebody is deliberately engineering an attack on morality for some reason?

Maybe changes simply reflect the interaction of different cultures and different types of people in a smaller world. One aspect of multiculturalism is cultural relativism, where people must be unmoored from the bedrock certainties of their views to accommodate the views of others. Healthy or destructive?

Or could it be that the whole idea of “traditional morality” is a lie to begin with? A hoax or a romantic fantasy? Life in the old days was certainly no rose garden, cruel and oppressive. However, from my travels in the developing world I know for a fact there is such a thing as “traditional culture” and I know it differs enormously from the postmodern dislocated globalized commercialized values spreading like wildfire across the globe. And it’s not just a minor difference, either…the presence or absence of tradition has enormous impacts on people’s behavior and actions.

Is it planned? A conspiracy to destroy the old and usher in something? The NWO/brave new world/globalized elite control, illuminati agenda…all those theories point in this direction. As do certain more mainstream theories. Some say the elite is out to destroy the family and manipulate sexuality so that they can gain more control over you. Some say the end goal is an NWO population reduction agenda; some say its something else. Media is out to support commercialism, which thrives on making people insecure and diverting attention and warping emotion to accelerate materialism and consumerism. Is all this just the end result of different players bumping around together, or is it something more coordinated?

Let us try to understand together, ATS.

is this a cop-out, especially if somebody is deliberately engineering an attack on morality for some reason?

I tend to believe this theory nails it more than the other options.

Is it possible that there really is dark and light forces? humanity prevails for the most part with dark uprisings?

or

It could be a viscous circle of wanting to create a society of peace after a dark event, then the inner darkness wants more, so they create more infrastructure to society. They then like the feeling of power and want to grow into a empire, they grow and grow to the point that the empire becomes parasites of society, society fights and takes out civilization and the cycle starts over again, never learning a valuable lesson of, "just be."

Tradition is an endless battle against change. The only thing that doesn't change is the fact that everything changes constantly. Trite, maybe, but true never the less. No matter how hard we may try to keep something from changing, it happens anyway. Traditional values probably changed just from being dubbed "traditional". So trying to force a "tradition" to continue unchanged is, ultimately, a losing battle.

Change is, of course, a two edged sword. It means bad things will eventually end, but it means that good things will, too.

I can see wanting to keep using a functional system, as is, and thus starting a "tradition". It's human nature to want to make the good times last as long as possible. No fault there. When change inevitably comes, though, the fight to keep the tradition ends up being worse than the initial change would have been, and which happens anyway.

On the other hand, I could just be talking out of my butt.

reply to post by Never Despise


See if this video helps.

vimeo.com...

I think it might answer a few questions.

Because, to be frank, there are many, many traditions that are just plain stupid. The problem is that most people are poor judges of what things need to be kept and which ones don't.

reply to post by Never Despise

Please read this short book. It may shed some light on this issue for you.
www.columbia.edu...

Here is my take in the situation. If one looks at everything on the planet, and really looks with a discerning eye, they will see that everything has a cycle. The cycle goes as such: Birth, Life, Death, Birth, Life, Death. It just stands to intelligent reason then that the planet itself also has a life/death cycle. The Ancient Ones say there were four worlds before this one, why is that so hard to grasp for modern people? The planet, in my considered opinion, will soon "die" and will be reborn again. I also strongly believe that the Earth is alive, and sentient, that is why it has always been called, "Mother Earth." Now let me take you on a journey of sorts....

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Is this not Mother Earth? The word "woman" is a metaphor for the Feminine aspect of the Divine, and in fact She does have the things mentioned, She is clothed with the Sun, She does have the Moon at Her feet, and She does have a crown of twelve stars, again, a metaphor for the twelve Constellations, it has always been twelve, you know.

I had a vision about this scenario, which I posted here. I quote from that post:

In the vision I saw the Sun grow with wild abandon, and began to throw off plasma streams toward Earth. I saw the electronic/magnetic field that protects Earth begin to collapse, and the surface begin to burn. At the same time I saw a beautiful woman, heavy with child, and she had a crown of stars and was like the lady in Revelations. Chasing her was a very large Dragon, and the Dragon was spitting fire from it's mouth at the woman. The lady screamed in pain, but was suddenly taken by the hand and led away from the beast. Then I saw Earth again, and by now it was really on fire, the plasma from the Sun was consuming it. Then I saw that a very large craft, bigger that Earth by several times, and saucer shaped, begin to tow planet Earth away from the Sun. The course I saw plotted was to the Pleiades System. Then I again saw the woman, but this time she was being cared for, and was no longer in danger from the Dragon.

Now, I ask you, taking into account the cycles, and the vision, and the metaphors......it kinda begins to make sense, doesn't it? I do now know if Earth will be towed, or will go on it's own, there have been reports of strange noises like machinery running underground in some western States for years now.

...imo, the problem isnt the concept of tradition... the problem is those who think their traditions are superior and, so, they try to dominate everyone else or destroy them if domination doesnt work... not sure when that mindset got started or where... not all cultures were infected with it but most have been affected by it...

Well you could view it as :

Spending your infancy and early years being inculcated into acting/thinking a certain way.

Your teens and twenty something s challenging the status quo

Then suddenly one day you realise - you represent the status quo

Spend the rest of you life defending your values, tradition etc. and complaining about how crap the music on the radio is.


Our social norms can be quite fluid and dynamic .

Sexism, racism, slavery ..... all formed some component of some world cultures "tradition" - however- the zeitgeist often shifts, fringe positions come to the fore- mainstream positions move to the periphery.

It's all relative. We tend to think of our ancestors as staid, traditional folk who were salt of the earth. We're taught the good things about them, but history rarely remembers the bad. Every age has it's on issues directly related to the one before and the one before. Tradition becomes subverted either out of good intentions or corruption. Then with many, our heritage is hidden in favor of a one world religon, for good or for ill. Discovery and implications are ignored when some new discovery arises that might make one race/religion/group look bad. So it's hidden. The truth is, none of us know anything about what we are. We search and seek because something is missing, but it's politically incorrect to ask. So we go underground... and here, there are many types and we coexist. We might disagree, but we can relate because others frown upon our need for introspection and understanding. And honestly? Those old traditions you miss? Why... they only limited some at the expense of another? While I adore nostalgia, I don't hamper my understanding by wearing rose colored glasses. If we want a new traditon, why not create one in love, peace, truth and understanding together. Of all the different "types" here, if we can get along, why not spread that message to others. Debate, educate, don't aggravate. Attack the message not the messenger. Treat others as you'd like to be treated. If everyone followed that, we'd see traditions that mattered arising that people of every group could share. And we'd be given back our individual diginity as individuals, not groups.