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GOP wants to end payroll tax break, Obama wants to keep it.

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posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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The big problem with this "tax break" is three fold:

1. It doesn't stimulate the economy in any way whatsoever. Getting a little bit extra each paycheck doesn't make you go buy a big ticket item. It just gets you used to having it to the point where you "depend" on not paying that tax ever again. A single bigger tax credit has more "stimulus" impact.

2. All it does is kick the can down the road.....these taxes don't really cover the operation of the government, just the FICA and Social Security....which are already headed for problems in the future. That's a great idea, lets take in less $$$ to fund these programs when down the road these same programs wont have enough money in them to sustain them at the levels promised........anyone see the flaw in that logic?

Truth be told, if we want to make those two programs more solvent and at the same benefit levels, we need to increase the money going into their coffers, not decrease it. Giving this tax break this way (with payroll tax cuts) makes the future problem even worse. Feel better about that? You can either cut benefits are raise the revenues for these programs, that's the only ways they will stay around the way they are. Our obligations in the future outweigh the monies we have to pay them.

3. It doesn't stimulate more hiring. As a small business owner myself, I remember Obama talking about in his campaign how he was going to help me with tax incentives, including payroll taxes. The way this payroll tax cut works doesn't benefit me....I still have to pay my full employer half of payroll taxes, only the employee side of the payroll tax gets the break. As a consequence this tax break helps me zero. With the unemployment insurance and payroll taxes being what they are, it's a huge drag on making me want to hire extra people. I just can't wait till Obamacare rolls in and adds the extra weight around the neck that drowns small business owners treading water to survive right now.

If you want to stimulate the economy stupid, give small business owners tax breaks and incentives. Then we can grow and expand. Big industry gets huge bailouts and deals, we small business owners have got exactly what????????




posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 


If the tax does nothing to help the day to day functioning of the government, being that the amount is so small, why the push to bring it back? Seems like the government doesn't really need the money, eh?
edit on 8-21-2011 by rogerstigers because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Taxes too high on who? On the middle class and poor yes they are too high for the wealthy taxes need to be raised to where they are paying the same as everyone else. This country needs a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage.


You do realize the "wealthy" do pay a higher percent right now in taxes. To give you an example of how far we are in debt as a nation, it would take a tax of 100% on everyone making more than $200,000 to wipe out the the budget deficit in one year.

Even if you were to tax the super wealthy 100% on all their incomes, no loopholes whatsoever, it would only reduce the budget deficit by 12% and the National Debt by 2%.

Taxing the rich even more, still won't solve our problems...... we need to trim budgets and get more people on the tax rolls. A vibrant economy covers many tax issues. It's the economy Stupid.

www.cnsnews.com... n-t-solv

www.taxfoundation.org...



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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i paid this tax for over 40 years, now that i'm getting old they reduce the tax and talk of having to reduce benefits.

if they want working people to have more cash to spend, there are better tax cuts than trashing the elderly.

this tax cut convinced me that Obama doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing.

and the republicans went along with this to trash him.

may they all go down the drain.

either they are all incredibly stupid or totally evil.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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While I am always for the middle class and the poor having the most money in their pocket as possible,

I fear that extending this tax cut is also a bad move. Social Security is too important of a program to put in a more troubling financial situation.

I would be in favor of lifting the cap of 102k which would solve the problem.

However, i am very surprised the GOP and Obama are taking the stances they are.

GOP has long been after privatizing SS, and busting it would help that happen. Don't know what Obama is doing on this one.

Honestly the whole thing is very odd to me...to say the least.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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So tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations are fine, but for workers its not fine.

The tax itself would be 6.2% and only applies up to $106,800 a year. In other words if you make $200,000 or $200 million, only 6.2% of $106,800 is going to be taxed.

That, frankly is crock of bovine scat.

We should have a fair across the board percentage. If you make $200 million, 6.2% of $200 million, not $106,800, should be taken out.

What this amounts to is an unfair and unequal system.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


I agree...the cap needs to be lifted.

Those on Social Security have not been getting the bump in their checks for inflation the last 2 years....but at the same time we have been paying less into it because of this tax break.

If Obama used his brain, he would use the platform of eliminating the cap along with keeping the tax break...but he's not.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to post by pavil
 


If the tax does nothing to help the day to day functioning of the government, being that the amount is so small, why the push to bring it back? Seems like the government doesn't really need the money, eh?
edit on 8-21-2011 by rogerstigers because: (no reason given)


The point is, they are using it as a band aid to mask the terminal disease we have which is government overspending. It's not that we are taxed so much, it's that we spend far more than we take in. Regardless of what kind of tax increase you want to inflict on the American taxpayer, it won't mean jack if we don't reign in government spending. Congress has never met a tax increase it didn't like, they will just spend that increase rather than pay down debts. We are just delaying things when we do things like this. It's very temporary relief at the expense of long term damage. You pick which one you want.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by buster2010

Taxes too high on who? On the middle class and poor yes they are too high for the wealthy taxes need to be raised to where they are paying the same as everyone else. This country needs a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage.


You do realize the "wealthy" do pay a higher percent right now in taxes. To give you an example of how far we are in debt as a nation, it would take a tax of 100% on everyone making more than $200,000 to wipe out the the budget deficit in one year.

Even if you were to tax the super wealthy 100% on all their incomes, no loopholes whatsoever, it would only reduce the budget deficit by 12% and the National Debt by 2%.

Taxing the rich even more, still won't solve our problems...... we need to trim budgets and get more people on the tax rolls. A vibrant economy covers many tax issues. It's the economy Stupid.

www.cnsnews.com... n-t-solv

www.taxfoundation.org...


Before calling someone stupid at least check and make sure your links work. And there are caps in place which keep the wealthy from paying the same percentage as the middle class. That's what I said in my post sorry it was too far above your head for you to understand.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
As undesirable as it might sound, we are going to have to raise taxes. There is no way around it.
As much as I hate to see my checks shrink each month, I know it's for the best.

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.
It isn't for the best. Can't you see by now that if you give the government more money, they spend it on vote buying. We need to CUT Spending! Real cuts, not these bs "cuts" they have been foisting upon us. CUT! CUT! CUT! then CUT some more.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by David9176
 


Contributions by the way that do not even come close to what the average person takes out of those systems.
How can you not see the problem with your own statement here?????? If they get more than they pay in IT IS A DAMNED ENTITLEMENT!!!!


Originally posted by dolphinfanThe calling of these payments to the government as a tax is totally misleading. They should rightfully be called contributions, since that is what they are - your contribution to social security and medicare.
It is not a CONTRIBUTION! A contribution is VOLUNTARY! This is a CONFISCATION done by force. Open your eyes and see the truth.


Originally posted by dolphinfanCutting the "payroll" tax further erodes the fiscal health of those programs, hence is never a good idea. As a long term solution, they are non starters, hence there should be a serious reluctance to eliminating them.
Eliminate all entitlement programs and you don't have this problem at all. These ponzi schemes have no fiscal health, you are delusional if you think they do.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
My college instructor said, "you cannot tax yourself out of debt".

This is true because you have to deal with why you are in debt in the first place......For those who say that raising taxes will help,,,,,,it won't......

The spending is killing us. The taxes are just fine and possibly a little too high right now


It is true you cannot tax yourself out of debt but you can't continue low revenues while spending like normal. Most are calling for a combination of tax increases, at least raising taxes to Clinton era levels on the top %2, and responsible spending cuts that do not disproportionately hurt the poor and middle class.

As far as taxes being too high, that is just false. In comparison to other industrialized countries we have the lowest tax rate in the world. Our taxes are also at historically low levels as a share of GDP. Here is an article by Bruce Bartlett, surprisingly enough he was Reagan's economic adviser. He acknowldeges that our current course is not sustainable on the tax side as well as the spending side. He also notes that the world is a different place then it was under Reagan and the usual trickle down Republican economic policies are the worst thing we can do today.

Bruce Bartlett
edit on 21-8-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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I am done "contributing" to the Governments filthy addiction. Don't ask because I don't tell, but whatever I do in life I will not contribute one more single red cent to the Government, last time I did the government took it and BAILED out A$$holes that I wouldn't even do business with!!!! Screw the effing government let the feds come after me (IRS) Before I go down bet your A$$ I am taking whoever they send from the IRS down with me!



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Before calling someone stupid at least check and make sure your links work. And there are caps in place which keep the wealthy from paying the same percentage as the middle class. That's what I said in my post sorry it was too far above your head for you to understand.


Dude, I wasn't calling anyone here in particular stupid, it was a reference to the slogan Clinton used against Bush Sr. in his election. Jeez. en.wikipedia.org... . If you were offended, I apologize, it wasn't directed at anyone. I see you are taking the insults personal though. Pity.

You are incorrect in regards to taxes, the more money you make in income, the higher the percent tax you pay. Sure there are deductions ect..... but the vast majority of higher income earners pay a higher percentage in tax and more $$$ in tax. I know you don't believe me but take a look at what the CBO says: economix.blogs.nytimes.com... icans-actually-pay-in-taxes/ The Top 20% of income earners already pay 5 times more in tax percentage than the lowest 20% of income earners and that's still not enough for you. It's just that they are too rich for you I guess.
edit on 21-8-2011 by pavil because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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Hey Neo96!!!

Are you on vacation or something? I expected a three sentence reply and more stars than can be listed by this point. Where you at chief? Much respect and just ribbing you, bro.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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So where does the Tea Party stand on this. Are they against raising taxes on working people, or like the repubs, all for higher taxes for working people, and lower taxes for the super rich.

Taxes should be paid on proportion to the benefits received, which means corporations and rich people should be paying for most of the fed gov, which means far more than they currently pay. That would be the top .001% of wage earners.



posted on Aug, 24 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Reply to : sonofliberty1776


Originally posted by sonofliberty1776



It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.
It isn't for the best. Can't you see by now that if you give the government more money, they spend it on vote buying. We need to CUT Spending! Real cuts, not these bs "cuts" they have been foisting upon us. CUT! CUT! CUT! then CUT some more.


I see somebody has been drinking the 'Baugh/Beck Kool-Aid.


We cannot default on our financial obligations. I assume in this right-wing Kool-Aid drinking "think tank", you are wanting to CUT CUT, lol, because you are somehow under the impression that will fix our problems? Ah, not so, grasshopper.

We can't leave our parents and grandparents who have paid taxes into revenues their entire lives, for specific entitlements, to starve.

We can, however, begin taxing corporations, even half of them, that aren't paying anything, and that amount will put quite a dent in our deficits.

First we need to clear congress of those who are bought and paid for by those same corporations.

Therein lies the solutions. Not turning and running from obligations we have made.
edit on 8/24/2011 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



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