China has Three J-15 Prototypes., page 1

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Topic started on 17-8-2011 @ 05:01 PM by Cosmic4life

I was just wandering around the web looking for some new images of China's latest development aircraft and i came across these images of the J-15.

The J-15 is a fully Chinese (cough) development of the J-11/Su-27.

As these images show however, the Chinese are now adding their fully Chinese (cough) stealth geometry to the intakes, underbody and vertical fins.

This first image shows a J-11B/J-15A flying with a Stealth modified J-15B..notice the intakes and vertical fins.

The second image shows a third version, lets call it the J-15C.

As you can see, this third version has a slightly different intake, the same smooth underbody and on this version, the vertical stabilizers as per J-20.
Although it's hard to tell, it looks to me like these vertical fins are actually canted outward slightly.

Anyway, just thought i would share this with my fellow ATS'rs first.

Cosmic...

edit on 17-8-2011 by Cosmic4life because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 05:24 PM by paraphi

Interesting. However, the resolution is difficult and Photoshop is a common tool out there, especially as both aircraft look so similar (same position, shadow etc). While I don't doubt China can build aircraft, I also don't doubt the power of the Chinese (or anyone really) to have a laugh and create things which do not exist.

Regards

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 05:38 PM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by paraphi
Interesting. However, the resolution is difficult and Photoshop is a common tool out there, especially as both aircraft look so similar (same position, shadow etc). While I don't doubt China can build aircraft, I also don't doubt the power of the Chinese (or anyone really) to have a laugh and create things which do not exist.

Regards

Its a secret that China is building J-15s?

There were lots of Photoshop claims when J-20 photos first appeared too.

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 05:46 PM by Cosmic4life

reply to post by paraphi

Indeed you could be right...

...maybe i should add a disclaimer (yet to be confirmed).

As far as i can tell the first image displaying two J-15's, one modified, is real.

The second image may very well be a photoshop edit of the modified J-15, the J-20 style fins just don't look proportional.

I'll stick with my opinion that the first image is true, as for the second image, well that's what ATS is for, to separate fact from deception.

Cosmic...

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 06:18 PM by Cosmic4life

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

It's certainly no secret that China is modifying its current aircraft with DSI intakes.

DSI or Diverterless Supersonic Inlet technology as used on the F-35, is lighter and stealthier.

The J-10 has already been given the DSI facelift.

The J-20 designed in.

The J-17 rumored,very probable.

I have no doubt that the first image shows a DSI/Stealth upgraded J-15 flying with a standard J-15.

Cosmic...

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 06:40 PM by waynos

This is absolutely certainly a complete fake in my opinion, and I speak as a long time defender of Chinas efforts to advance it's aerospace technology.

The top image, purporting to display a J-15A and a J-15B shows the SAME J-15A twice.

It is so evidently the same aircraft from the exact same positions of the shadows, and the relative positions of the detailed areas such as where the shadows meet the edge of the frame, etc. In a real photo of two aircraft flying you would never, ever see such identical alignment.

The "enhanced" model is just very badly photoshopped from the same image again! It looks utterly unconvincing in it's attempt to show a DSI type inlet, very poor. :

Does no-one see what is wrong with three supposedly different aircraft all at exactly the same angle and attitude, all casting the same shadows and two of them in the same shot?

How easy is it to change a planes appearance? 5 minutes work shown below. The longer you take, the better the results.

The shadows and perspective are always a giveaway so putting the "source" aircraft in the same shot as the fake is a schoolboy error by whoever did it.

edit on 17-8-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-8-2011 by waynos because: correct designation used

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 06:59 PM by Cosmic4life

Here's a bigger image of the possible modified J-15.

Cosmic...

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 07:09 PM by waynos

reply to post by Cosmic4life

To what purpose? It isn't any more convincing that I already said. In fact there is a dead giveaway in that larger image that confirms it's a fake. Can you spot it?

edit on 17-8-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 07:14 PM by Signals

Doesn't look very stealthy to me...

Can someone explain why this plane is significant?

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 07:15 PM by Cosmic4life

reply to post by waynos

The first image seems real enough to me.

All the other Chinese aircraft are getting the DSI treatment so why not the J-15 ?

This is not an image claiming to be the other secret stealth fighter (Snowy Owl), it's just an image showing the DSI development J-15 flying with the old version.

No need to go all Sherlock Holmes on me mate.

The second image with what looks like J-20 fins is totally photoshop IMHO but that doesn't mean the first image is fake.

As you must know, two aircraft flying in close proximity will have virtually identical shadow lines, but if you look closely you will see subtle differences due to the change in shape of the DSI J-15.

Of course any image can be claimed to be doctored these days, i leave it up to the ATS members to make of it what you will.

We will see when the production version roles out, until then it's worth looking at.

Cosmic...

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 07:22 PM by lonegurkha

If these pics aren't photoshopped then I'd say that they are trying bolt on parts shaped to reduce the radar signature. I wouldn't exactly call it stealth, but it could reduce the signature a bit.
Verticle tail surfaces will still reflect big time. With no special radar absorbant coating the modifications won't do much.

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 07:44 PM by waynos

Originally posted by Cosmic4life
reply to post by waynos

The first image seems real enough to me.

I can understand that, but if I may just point out that for two aircraft to present precisely the same attitude and perspective towards the camera and, at the same time, cast exactly the same shadows is physically impossible, unless they are both in *exactly* the same place when the pic is taken. Or put another way, are both the same plane in the first place.

All the other Chinese aircraft are getting the DSI treatment so why not the J-15 ?

Absolutely no reason at all, it's just that this isn't it. I know photgraphs and image manipulation very well and badly done ones are easy to spot. Like this.

This is not an image claiming to be the other secret stealth fighter (Snowy Owl), it's just an image showing the DSI development J-15 flying with the old version.

No need to go all Sherlock Holmes on me mate.

Whatever it claims to be, it is false. Also, the first image does not depict DSI intakes on either aircraft. Surely, that is exactly why this site exists? So that people with experience and knowledge may help with the whole 'deny ignorance' thing? I posted a quickie fake of my own only to try to show that I do know what I'm talking about, rather than just being an anti- China naysayer with nothing to back it up.

The second image with what looks like J-20 fins is totally photoshop IMHO but that doesn't mean the first image is fake.

No it doesn't mean that. However, it is, and both modified aircraft, in both images, are very obviously taken from the genuine J-15A that is in the first image.

As you must know, two aircraft flying in close proximity will have virtually identical shadow lines, but if you look closely you will see subtle differences due to the change in shape of the DSI J-15.

In addition to what I said above about the perspectives etc, the only differences are where the image has been modified, there are no 'natural' differences at all, which is rather telling. Also the texture of the image in the modified areas differs from the rest of the image (only evident in the larger one you posted)

Of course any image can be claimed to be doctored these days, i leave it up to the ATS members to make of it what you will.

Of course, and I despair when i see obviously genuine images dismissed as fakes by people with no knowledge but a deep desire to be 'clever'. The J-20 and the recent joined wing UAV are both recent examples of this. However I despair equally when obvious fakes appear.

With some of the very best it can be really difficult, especially some of those that come out of China. But sometimes they are obvious and, at least to me, this is one of those times. As was yesterday's 'stealthy JH-7B' reveal.

I'm not having a go at you for posting the images and please don't make the mistake of thinking I don't find them of interest, I do. It's just that, to me, I know what they are and how they were done, cos sometimes, to pass the time, I do it myself.

edit on 17-8-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 08:22 PM by Cosmic4life

reply to post by waynos

I understand what your saying...

I was hoping the direction of the thread would lead to a discussion of Chinese DSI development and implementation into current airframes.

Even if it is as you say fake, it still holds value as to what a J-15 will look like with DSI.

I still think the first image looks real, that's just my opinion, i'm not an expert in photo editing.

Cosmic...

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 08:30 PM by waynos

reply to post by Cosmic4life

Agreed on the DSI aspect. It is quite well publicised that such modified intakes are being developed on the J-10 and JF-17. Think it is partly due to this that people are now imagining them applied to every other type of Chinese aircraft as well. I also heard a (completely unsubstantiated) rumour that Eurofighter is considering them for the Typhoon even. Given that the Typhoon inlet is already designed to give a reduced RCS I'm not so sure, though they may have made a comparison internally.

reply posted on 17-8-2011 @ 08:43 PM by waynos

Also, in the first image, the modified intakes are more T-50 style than DSI. I think that the J-15 is possibly the wrong aircraft to br thinking in terms of DSI intakes as the intake tunnel is deep and narrow and stands proud from the airframe. The intakes and nacelles are also entirel separate with an empty space between them. This layout does not lend itself well to the DSI modification and the degree of redesign required to the entire architecture would, IMHO, be Just as pointless as modifying the JH-7, though for entirely different reasons.

reply posted on 19-8-2011 @ 01:38 PM by ZIVONIC

Kind of an ugly configuration, compared to the SU-27 it's clearly based off of.

But war is not a beauty contest. It also might have some significant internal weapon storage.

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