Our Troops do NOT Protect Our Freedom and We Should Stop Thanking Them for Doing So

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posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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this is why i say bring them all home and to bad so sad nor more over sea deployment, if your a foreign country or Gov and need our help to bad your on your own, all forces should retake the oath, and know word for word what it says, it does not go to the aid of foreign lands, but then Con or the Pres can declare war to get us in there. it should be rewritten to say "only when attacked and with solid proof, that that nation do so willingly attack the USA" not what a few individuals do. Bring them(the troops, all forces) home and use them for what there are meant to do defend. DoD needs to dissolved DoD is not DoD it is DoO Department of Offense, not defense. of course we would have to change history for that www.onwar.com...




posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 


So wait a minute are you saying that you believe all the soldiers in the military know what is going on and are bad and just as bad as the globalist masterminds? Becuase they are going along with it.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by bekod
 


Well the problem is that we've tried this before and it didn't have good results. We left the Nazi's alone and didn't interfere and we eventually had to fight them anyways at a far greater cost than if we had intervened earlier. Same thing with Vietnam. The french could have knocked the VC back had we supplied them with more aid as they were asking for but we decided it wasn't any of our business so left them out there then went in later anyways.

Sometimes trying to prevent a problem is easier than trying to cure it later.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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"when fascism comes to america, it will be draped in the flag and come clutching as cross" sinclair lewis.
"war is a racket" a book by smedley butler usmc.
this is why foreign troops are being brought into " the army of one".
why darpa works on drones, genetically modified and robot "warriors"
the military makes sure we see transformers one two three..and all the other
mythical, heroic somehow superhuman warrior..
who do you think these "prayer warriors" are anyway?
they will be used against us as history documents.
by those who call themselves patriots.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by p51mustang
"when fascism comes to america, it will be draped in the flag and come clutching as cross" sinclair lewis.
"war is a racket" a book by smedley butler usmc.
this is why foreign troops are being brought into " the army of one".
why darpa works on drones, genetically modified and robot "warriors"
the military makes sure we see transformers one two three..and all the other
mythical, heroic somehow superhuman warrior..
who do you think these "prayer warriors" are anyway?
they will be used against us as history documents.
by those who call themselves patriots.


Are you implying we should get rid of the military?

I don't think that would be wise.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by kro32
Well I will have to disagree with a couple of issues though perhaps not with your ideology. It is not possible to have an effective military who thinks for themselves or questions orders.


Effective at what? Killing?

The Nazis were incredibly effective at killing. And they didn't question orders either.

Thus, the problem.


Yes that is what I mean by effective. That is what war is about after all and you've kind of proved my point by referencing the Nazi's. You must follow orders to be effective and if you have people that are allowed to question orders and pick and choose what actions they want to take you will not have an army that is effective at killing.

This is what military's do and why they are created.

George Washington said it very well when his soldiers were deserting and the war looked like it would be lost. He said, "You can fight a war for independence but independence cannot win a war"



don't forget...

“My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth.” -George Washington



“Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.” -George Washington

“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force…Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” -George Washington

“Wars are not paid for in wartime, the bill comes later.” -Benjamin Franklin

“A people free to choose will always choose peace.” -Ronald Reagan

“I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.” -Dwight D. Eisenhower


We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.” -Dwight D. Eisenhower




“War…is as much a punishment to the punisher as to the sufferer.” -Thomas Jefferson



A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
Napoleon Bonaparte

All war is deception.
Sun Tzu

All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers.
Francois Fenelon

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.” -George Orwell

“What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood.” -Aldous Huxley

“A man who says that no patriot should attack the war until it is over…is saying no good son should warn his mother of a cliff until she has fallen.” -G.K. Chesterton

“We have guided missiles and misguided men.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.



I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in.
George McGovern

If it's natural to kill, how come men have to go into training to learn how?
Joan Baez

Man has no right to kill his brother. It is no excuse that he does so in uniform: he only adds the infamy of servitude to the crime of murder.
Percy Bysshe Shelley

Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind.
John F. Kennedy


Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.
Ernest Hemingway


Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die.
Herbert Hoover

Only the dead have seen the end of the war.
George Santayana


Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living.
Omar N. Bradley


Patriots always talk of dying for their country and never of killing for their country.
Bertrand Russell


The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.
George S. Patton


War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Bertrand Russell


War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

War would end if the dead could return.
Stanley Baldwin


When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die.
Jean-Paul Sartre

You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake.
Jeannette Rankin

“The most successful war seldom pays for its losses.” -Thomas Jefferson

“Governments constantly choose between telling lies and fighting wars, with the end result always being the same. One will always lead to the other.” -Thomas Jefferson













It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by kro32
 

the nazis never went away- the took up position in the usa and went right back to work.
and now they rear their ugly head again, with the same goal as 1942- seize the caspian basin,
plunge the host country into perpetual war and loot the joint..retire in paraquay..on the bush compound of 98,000
acres or sun mung moons 1 million acres. likely where rumsfield is headed.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher
reply to post by seedofchucky
 


So wait a minute are you saying that you believe all the soldiers in the military know what is going on and are bad and just as bad as the globalist masterminds? Becuase they are going along with it.



pawns my good man pawns.

its the same problem that you seem to be having "ignorance"

if the soliders in the military knew what was going on they would understand what "Sir yes Sir" really means and would take appropriate action against it .



I clearly said they were pawns did i not ? Do you know what pawns are ?

but what happens when they realize the ugly side of there mission? Surley these are not part of the mastermind plan you pointed out ? unless there shills?
















the main problem with war and what authorizes it is ignorant masses who hide behind " support your troops or your not patriotic"




edit on 9-8-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


My husband served 22 yrs as a military police narcotics/explosives dog handler in the US ARmy. He retired last April.

I, of course, disagree with you. I thank him everyday for his selfless service.

For our family, it was join the military or be a drain on society and draw welfare because there are no jobs in our little appalachian hometown. He did it to earn his money.

You are entitled to your opinion, because the blood of many soldiers gave you that right.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by k21968
reply to post by wcitizen
 


My husband served 22 yrs as a military police narcotics/explosives dog handler in the US ARmy. He retired last April.

I, of course, disagree with you. I thank him everyday for his selfless service.

For our family, it was join the military or be a drain on society and draw welfare because there are no jobs in our little appalachian hometown. He did it to earn his money.

You are entitled to your opinion, because the blood of many soldiers gave you that right.



Wrong.
I was born with that right naturally.

I already have all my rights, and the only way they can be taken away is to kill me.

That's what soldiers do, they kill. Which is taking away rights, rather than granting them.

I do not need others to die for me to be free, in fact, I need others to live and be free so that I may be free.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by k21968
He did it to earn his money.

You are entitled to your opinion, because the blood of many soldiers gave you that right.



Also it is a contradiction.

So did he do it for money?

Or for my freedom?

I am guessing $$$.
edit on 9-8-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Oh great.

Yet another Star and Flag fest for bashing Servicemen/women. Must be that time of the month....



Just remember.

In case of an Emergency: Break glass.

Next time, we'll think twice about responding



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
Oh great.

Yet another Star and Flag fest for bashing Servicemen/women. Must be that time of the month....



Just remember.

In case of an Emergency: Break glass.

Next time, we'll think twice about responding


I would never bash a soldier who speaks out against what they see as wrong. In fact, I believe that is the solution to the problem.

The soldiers in those videos above telling Americans to please read the Constitution, those men have real Honor in my eyes.

Also many of the posters on ATS who are vets have spoken out and I also consider that honorable and worth celebration.
edit on 9-8-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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This is the most disgusting thread I have seen in awhile.



Those who criticize the US Military and the troops do not understand how the world works.

But what do you expect from the "Blame America First" crowd?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 

omg...here we go again.


And, while your beloved troops are murdering people around the globe, yes, I said murdering


hmmm...

Murder isn't simply the act of killing someone. It's a legal term that defines an unlawful killing. The adjective unlawful makes all the difference

The Geneva Conventions are a famous set of rules that govern what is and isn't legal during war. The rules of war dictate that it's illegal to fire upon a surrendering, unarmed or otherwise helpless enemy, or to attack any building used as a hospital.

science.howstuffworks.com...It doesn't matter, you will define it differently regardless.


They blindly believe what was told to them by the people who have a vested interest in maintaining myths and misconceptions.


Say what? I didn't blindly believe what I was told, in fact most of my marine buds kept what was told in question, however because of contract and the conditions of which we signed up, the chain of command puts us in a position to follow lawful orders, not blindly believe.


Here is another question Americans have not asked, “How can an Iraqi, Pakistani, Afghan or Islamic fundamentalist in other nations take away our freedom?” The answer to this question is of course...by becoming a member of the US Congress.

The author states "of course", like thats the obvious answer lol. No not exactly the same as them denying your right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness if you're dead - which is where I really think the denying freedom thing comes from. The American culture norm is that Islamic extremist terrorism exists, uprised in the middle east and transported here to carry out said beliefs/terrorism. (That is also imo, arguable).


I don't know about you, but I want to be proud of my country for real reasons, not mythical ones.


The myth is that without a medium of military, a politician is powerless in any foreign negotiation against violent threats against civilians. Because we are apart of the UN, we are obligated to prevent another world war, and address viable threats.

Listen, the article isn't entirely BS, but it's headline and major theme is. We should stop thanking them? Oh, just the ones that deployed right? or all of them? how about these Category:Non-combat military operations involving the United States . What about the ones in the states that aid in disasters? Or how about we just complain about how they aren't contributing at all to the stability of the security the nation holds.



edit on 9-8-2011 by juveous because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-8-2011 by juveous because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Carseller4
This is the most disgusting thread I have seen in awhile.



Those who criticize the US Military and the troops do not understand how the world works.

But what do you expect from the "Blame America First" crowd?


I criticize military agendas because I know how war works.

I know the history of war, I know that things have been brutal and horrific for all of human history.

In fact, today's conflicts often seem tame in comparison to the blood lust of yesteryear.

However we must work towards human progress and diplomatic solutions to our problems. Killing indiscriminately never solves any problems it only creates more.

Notice why I don't want the military to kill the criminal elites? Because I don't believe in that since it is wrong. I believe in justice and respecting the liberty of all human beings. Due process.

But lets at least arrest them please?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
Oh great.

Yet another Star and Flag fest for bashing Servicemen/women. Must be that time of the month....



Just remember.

In case of an Emergency: Break glass.

Next time, we'll think twice about responding



Im curious what time of the month may that be ?


i ask this because thats the only thing i can think of asking you on your totally pointless post ?


lets ask the vets?

ivaw.org... -

"Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) was founded by Iraq war veterans in July 2004 at the annual convention of Veterans for Peace (VFP) in Boston to give a voice to the large number of active duty service people and veterans who are against this war, but are under various pressures to remain silent"



www.vvaw.org... -

Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Inc. (VVAW) is a national veterans' organization that was founded in New York City in 1967 after six Vietnam vets marched together in a peace demonstration. It was organized to voice the growing opposition among returning servicemen and women to the still-raging war in Indochina, and grew rapidly to a membership of over 30,000 throughout the United States as well as active duty GIs stationed in Vietnam. Through ongoing actions and grassroots organization, VVAW exposed the ugly truth about US involvement in Southeast Asia and our first-hand experiences helped many other Americans to see the unjust nature of that war.




www.veteransforpeace.org...

"The organization includes men and women veterans of all eras and duty stations spanning the Spanish Civil War (1936-39), World War II, the Korean, Vietnam, Gulf and current Iraq wars as well as other conflicts. Our collective experience tells us wars are easy to start and hard to stop and that those hurt are often the innocent. Thus, other means of problem solving are necessary. "


www.mfaw.net...

Military Families Against the War is an organization of people directly affected by the war in Iraq. Our relatives and loved ones are members of the British Armed Services.
We are opposed to the continuing involvement of UK soldiers in a war that is based on lies.





Now can you reply with something of substance? Or shall i pull out my stick?



Total Fatalities
Operation Iraqi Freedom: 4,442
Operation Enduring Freedom: 1,584
(Updated June 5, 2011)

projects.washingtonpost.com...



"#1. Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation"

www.projectcensored.org...



over a million dead for my freedom ? No thanks . Keep your "Democracy " or should i call it "hypocrisy"

Its these type of double standards that allows them to get away with it
edit on 9-8-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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I agree 100%. Glad to finally hear someone else say it.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by juveous


Say what? I didn't blindly believe what I was told, in fact most of my marine buds kept what was told in question, however because of contract and the conditions of which we signed up, the chain of command puts us in a position to follow lawful orders, not blindly believe.


So every order given is "lawful"? That's a load of garbage.

The Nuremberg Trials proved that there are in fact various types of UNLAWFUL orders that can be issued. And it is the soldiers duty to refuse them and arrest the person giving that order.

Or are you trying to say that since someone in authority issues an order, it is always lawful, therefore the SS commanders issuing orders for massacre were also lawful, therefore morally correct?

This is a very simple question. And this is also the central focal point of the problem that is making people very upset with the status quo.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by kro32
 
firstly i think if japan had not attacked us then would have let Briton and the other nations battle it out, yes we, the US, would give arms, not troops. As far as the Vietnam war, with LBJ in power we would have either way.

edit on 9-8-2011 by bekod because: editting





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