CHINA will fall with us. The whole world is bound to fall.

In my precedent post, I tried to explain why the debt will NEVER be payed back.
"The Market" knows it, and plunges down.
USA (but not only USA) doesn't deserve "AAA", neither "AA", neither "AA".
Quite ALL the Western countries have become "junk" economies.
We have foolishly GIVEN our industrial power and know-how to CHINA.
The PLOUTOCRATIC LIBERALS have for years, preferred illusional money gambling to work for our workers.
We have the result : unemployment soaring and bankruptcy and financial bubbles exploding in our faces.
But now that we, the Western countries, are falling BROKE and facing the result of the fall of all our illusions, CHINA will have to face the fall of it's CUSTOMERS.
It won't be no more possible for it, to sustain a growing rate of 8%, while hyperinflation begins to plumet.
Civil unrest will begin to burst everywhere.
This may turn to civil war if ... WAR isn't an option.
And guys, frankly, I think it will.

This thread is being offered to you from a Western point of view. Enjoy the doom&gloom, and remember, if the West falls the world falls.



Alright, and now to get serious:

This is an ideology prevalent in some higher up circles where American businessmen are afraid of the Chinese rising up. Expect this kind of news to go up, what with the recent downgrade of America.

Market manipulation.

Edit:

And this is the usual scare tactic used:

CHINA will have to face the fall of it's CUSTOMERS.

As if China is not busy building up markets elsewhere.

Really, your line of thinking went outdated a couple of years ago. (I also come across these arguments the OP made in real life and let me tell you, they come from pretentious know-it-all's who know absolutely nothing about anything that has to even REMOTELY do with anything economic. I've encountered some superiority complexes in these folk as well; they are afraid of China and they are afraid of not being #1 anymore).

Another world war is imminent. I reckon its the only way to kick start the world economy from scratch. Either that or mother nature will send in the comets to finish the job and restart the clock.

reply to post by Zamini

As if China is not busy building up markets elsewhere

Ha ! Really ?
On Moon, probably ?
Don't forget that World is a closed space.
At least, for the moment.
The domestic market of China is very small.
The rank of China, when measuring the wealth per inhabitant is very low ( # 127)
So the domestic market is not able to replace the brutal fall of the foreign customers.
It is only the exportations which allow China to have become the second world power.
And 80% of the VALUE of China's exportations comes from the Western countries.
See that ?

reply to post by orkson

The domestic market of China is very small.

Did I say China only? No. In fact, North Korea seems to be a new candidate.

The rank of China, when measuring the wealth per inhabitant is very low ( # 127)

What was the rank 10 years ago?

So the domestic market is not able to replace the brutal fall of the foreign customers.

There are more countries in this world than the US and China. China is creating infrastructure in Africa for one.

It is only the exportations which allow China to have become the second world power.

No, it was the Chinese peoples dedication to work hard and earn a better living.

And 80% of the VALUE of China's exportations comes from the Western countries.

Could that be because the Western nations now hold most wealth? I think it is. So what happens when that wealth shifts? Markets shift.

Of course, go ahead, believe whatever you want. After all, you are way smarter than tacticians they have working for the Chinese government.

reply to post by orkson


Oh really? Do you think the Chinese came down in the last shower? Their culture out ranks yours by about 4000 years. So don't get beyond your station. And you think China needs the good old U S or A. for its products. Think again.

www.bloomberg.com...

China will not "collapse along with the US".

Just because China's business is selling cheap goods to the US, doesn't mean they will fall because they can't sell anymore. People seem to forget that China is hugely self-sufficient, and produces virtually everything it needs. They simply start producing for themselves and other countries.

Not a huge loss.

They're a hugely productive country, where the US isn't.. not even slightly, and it's really kind of sad.

That is wishful thinking.

Right wing fascism is the side screaming for the all powerful business ..guess what..the world has listened. China has heard you my friend.

Now that China is beating us at the game that you love so dearly...you cry foul. You cry that it will all crumble..surely it will all crumble.

Guess what..YOUR game only allows for one top dog...and it looks like it won't be the US any longer.

Too many Imperial wars and intolerant dogma. Too much us against them. Too much hate..too much greed.

Too late to cry foul...this is the game that you loved...now finish it.

Peace

the Chinese leaders use peasant
workers who are forced to work for low pay, bad food
and poor living conditions.
The workers have no value... There are plenty more.
I'm a Chinese, so I know.
.
I wonder how many workers are injured or killed

on all sites? I know it's a lot. Many thousands.
There is no compensation or financial help for the families.
.
That's the way it is in China today. Almost slave labour.

The men shown in this email would have been carefully
selected to look like workers. In fact they would be actors
or local low-grade Communist Party members.
.
That is how China has become so dollar rich so quickly.
By exploiting an unlimited supply of uneducated, desperately
poor people. Age and sex is of no importance. From young
kids to the more mature, people are ruthlessly exploited
everywhere and in every kind of business.
.
That is the truth.
.
Don't be impressed by the wonderfully new and sparkly buildings.
Be angry. They are poorly built with inferior materials. Recently
five bridges have collapsed and some buildings, with rail accidents
on the up. Many deaths. Find out more about the exploitation that
goes on in China, and remember... any dissent is quickly and
ruthlessly dealth with by beatings, imprisonment and execution.
Corruption involving Communist Party leaders at every level is
commonplace.
.
If it's marked 'Made in China' - don't trust it. Not even if it is one your
'Home' brands that have moved their manufacturing base to China.
Maybe we can get them back, thus creating more jobs.
.
Chen.

This is from a chinese friend who emailed me about a chinese tourist project. Perhaps evidence from the horses mouth will be good enough.

reply to post by Zamini

Did I say China only? No. In fact, North Korea seems to be a new candidate.

Yes, North Korea is a veritable economic powerhouse full of starving inhabitants.

What was the rank 10 years ago?

What was just one turd ten years ago is now ten turds. Yay for China.

There are more countries in this world than the US and China. China is creating infrastructure in Africa for one.

I seem to remember a list of European countries that tried that in the 1800 and 1900's in Africa. It apparently is not worth the effort or money. Pay the local chief to have his minions work the mines for the mineral wealth that is there, that's the way to do it.

No, it was the Chinese peoples dedication to work hard and earn a better living.

They had a huge head start on us Americans, did they not? Theirs are one of the oldest advanced civilizations on Earth. We should already be speaking Chinese, what with their great work ethic.

Could that be because the Western nations now hold most wealth? I think it is.

Why is that? Why do we hold most of the wealth? Because we suck so much?

Of course, go ahead, believe whatever you want.

I probably will. And you will also believe what you want. Just don't try to say what you really believe in China!

reply to post by spav5


Man, you should more carefully read what I've written in my post.
I think I can hardly be taken for a supporter of what drove us to that point ...

China has no problem with executing corrupt officials while corruption looks like a prerequisite for a job promotion in America. It is really a no brainer to see which country will come out on top while the other collapses by the hand of the enemy within.

Originally posted by SyphonX

They're a hugely productive country, where the US isn't.. not even slightly, and it's really kind of sad.

edit on 9-8-2011 by SyphonX because: (no reason given)

Not true, the US is really productive........ at war.

Sorry haha

reply to post by butcherguy


Lets see if you can count.

Yes, North Korea is a veritable economic powerhouse full of starving inhabitants.

Straw man #1.

What was just one turd ten years ago is now ten turds. Yay for China.

Straw man #2. They could have gone up fifty ranks or more in a ten year span, that marks ridiculous progress.

I seem to remember a list of European countries that tried that in the 1800 and 1900's in Africa.

Straw man #3. Things have changed on one side.

Because we suck so much?

Straw man #4. It's called imperialism and genocide. That's how the West got the power it has now, you want to argue? Go argue with written history.

That's great work there Einstein. Now go read history and see how empires rise and fall continuously. Then come back and claim this and that about a culture that has managed to keep itself alive for thousands of years.

You see, your hostility is a clear tell of your fear.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Lets see if you can count.

Yes, North Korea is a veritable economic powerhouse full of starving inhabitants.

Straw man #1.

What was just one turd ten years ago is now ten turds. Yay for China.

Straw man #2. They could have gone up fifty ranks or more in a ten year span, that marks ridiculous progress.

I seem to remember a list of European countries that tried that in the 1800 and 1900's in Africa.

Straw man #3. Things have changed on one side.

Because we suck so much?

Straw man #4. It's called imperialism and genocide. That's how the West got the power it has now, you want to argue? Go argue with written history.

That's great work there Einstein. Now go read history and see how empires rise and fall continuously. Then come back and claim this and that about a culture that has managed to keep itself alive for thousands of years.

You see, your hostility is a clear tell of your fear.

edit on 9-8-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)

I've shown you no hostility.

I've simply shown you some facts.

And you have thrown up four straw men.

If you read your posts, you will learn what hostility is.

reply to post by Zamini

Now go read history and see how empires rise and fall continuously.

It is called the 'tragedy of the commons'. People become stuck in doing what they do and more concerned about their self interest rather then the social interest. Resources dry up and empires fall.

reply to post by Zamini

It's called imperialism and genocide. That's how the West got the power it has now, you want to argue? Go argue with written history.

If you like history, here is a place for you to start. It will tell you about one of the oldest empires....China. Follow the links.

Genocide? Genocide was mastered by one Mao Zedong.(Psst... He was Chinese.) The low end estimates are that he killed at least 40 million of his countrymen. High end goes over 100 million. Now that is some work ethic he had!

had hoped this was going to be a decent discussion but it seems to degraded to a mud flinging contest.

Yes its a pitty disasters going to hit world wide and all countries are preparing only those "bankrupt countries" are the ones preparing when this hit what ever it is. Lets pretend we are "bankrupt"

reply to post by crimvelvet


Yeah, it does get a bit silly. The trends behind this are long and slow with a lot of torque. Watching this is like try to stop an earthquake by arguing with it. The best we can do is watch and adapt.