Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
When the Founding Father's founded this nation, they had inherited slavery and most made arrangements to free their slaves, if they owned them at
all. When the nation was founded no one else in the world had the right to vote and it was the accepted practice of the day that men held these
The foundation of this nation was a bold move forward into territory that had never been entered and to fault the Founder's for the mores of their
time is beyond ignorant, it is arrogant and stupid.
Every free nation on the planet has taken a page from our playbook and don't you forget it!
[edit on 04/8/19 by GradyPhilpott]
Flame hmm? So that would make you a flamer, correct? Are we done being children about this, or is it time for mamma jokes? If we go there I'm gonna
win, because I spent 12 weeks with Drill Instructor Staff Sergeant Thomas and you didn't.
So take it easy leatherneck, you aint the only one here who's proven his belief in this country by military service. I figure sense I acquired more
back problems than my grandfather has by the time I was 21 while trying to tough it out and do my duty, I might be immune to your apparent assumption
that I'm a wild-eyed America hater.
Speaking of "speaking ill of my country", you obviously didn't dwell on my remarks and their meaning before forming your opinion and calling
arrogant and ignorant. If you'll go back you'll notice that I was DEFENDING the right of nations to make unpopular and morally
questionable moves- including the atrocities we have undeniably committed against Indians and Blacks, because in the long run the sad truth is that
this is how nations are built, and this is how suffering is prevented in the long term. Yeah, America's playbook works. Just remember that we didn't
write most of it, and it includes some things that you would probably be ashamed of.
Now arrogant I am, as are most of my beliefs. It's an unfortunate side effect of being smarter than you. Ignorant and stupid on the other hand, I
take exception to.
The overthrow of British kings and establishment of democracy is not originally an American idea. 8 or 9 out of 10 Americans almost certainly are
ignorant of the fact that Oliver Cromwell established a short-lived parlimentary government in England in the early 17th century. It quickly became a
tyrany of multiple heads- squires and parliment members were as bad as kings, just in smaller spheres of influence. This prompted Cromwell to sieze
power and lead as justly as he knew how, aborting the experiment with democracy.
The failures of Cromwell's democracy exist in our own as well, especially in the modern age. The only difference is that nobody pulled the plug. It
worked out alright, but we aren't the originals- we didn't give birth to the idea, and it is arrogant and ignorant to claim any such glory. I don't
even have to go into the roots of republican government in Greece and Rome, do I?
Oh, I almost forgot to mention- America has one of the strongest executive branches in the free world, which naturally serves to make us less free
than most. Our first president made a habbit of snubbing the people's chosen representatives in congress, and established a trend which has created
such phenomenon as the permanent succession of the Vice President (which was never intended, and resulted in an American president being commonly
known as "His Accidency"). It has also resulted in the Somalia debacle, the Monica Missiles, the doomed strategy of the Vietnam War, etc etc etc.
-Most of the free world tries to -AVOID- borrowing that from our playbook-
As for the historical significance of America, in the context of a millenium or so- we may very well be insignificant. We're not even the first
colony to become a strong nation in its own right and become involved in a super-power standoff and a pair of historically significant wars (i'll
give you a hint- Carthage). Keep in mind that 238 years of survival and 60 years of prominence in world affairs is hardly an impressive run by
historical standards. I'll grant that we've far and away outdone The Soviet Republic of Bavaria (I don't even think they made through the spring of
1919), but only an arrogant, ignorant, propaganda fed old man would suggest that America has defined the growth of the free world.
See the good, see the bad, accept it all. If what we have now is good, then the past that got us here must be alright. By the way- we're friggin rich
by world standards. We don't need to dream up an noble legacy for our nation. Our good name isn't exactly all we've got.