Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by XplanetX
reply to post by bogomil

 

I would be well pleased with a more 'Jolly' atmosphere in this thread.

As I'm moderately mad myself, I'm used to comments of the kind you made in your recent post. But it surprises me, if you aren't aware of the effect of general comments on peoples' mental health/rational attitudes, if they don't follow the premises you have around your 'god'.

For many non-theists your 'god' is deranged and suggestions of using the standards set by/around him as a measure for "coming to your senses" are so outrageous and with an element of megalomania, that it without doubt will bleep off many people. It will definitely NOT bring jollicity a notch up, except for the witticisms sent your way as a result.

edit on 31-8-2011 by bogomil because: spelling

I am well aware of how people choose to react I am not at all surprised.


1PE 4:14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.



I love everyone on this planet including you Bogomil, despite our obvious difference in opinion.


RO 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.


I am one of those of low position by the way.

I'm afraid, the love isn't reciprocial. Scratch a bit on the over-demonstrative christian love-veneer and you'll find the pricetag. Scratch deeper and the will for dominance is there, and scratch it away the violence is out in the open.

But with a violent 'god' setting an example, it's not so strange.

The only price tag is 'love'.


1CO 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

1CO 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1CO 13:8 Love never fails.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["The only price tag is 'love'."]

Such a statement is a double-bind. Both cause and effect, where the self-contained premises semantically support each other, which ofcourse only is a hollow philosophy observation.

So to bring it into the pragmatic,... the christianities have had two thousand years for manifesting this 'love', and the outcome has been, that the more intrusive the christian attitudes have been, the thicker layer of cosmetic 'love' to cover the basic invasiveness.

I believe, that the combination: Christian missioning + christian 'love' rather rings a negative pavlovian bell in mankind. If a christian missionary starts pushing christian 'love', it's better to run the other way.

.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["The only price tag is 'love'."]

Such a statement is a double-bind. Both cause and effect, where the self-contained premises semantically support each other, which ofcourse only is a hollow philosophy observation.

So to bring it into the pragmatic,... the christianities have had two thousand years for manifesting this 'love', and the outcome has been, that the more intrusive the christian attitudes have been, the thicker layer of cosmetic 'love' to cover the basic invasiveness.

I believe, that the combination: Christian missioning + christian 'love' rather rings a negative pavlovian bell in mankind. If a christian missionary starts pushing christian 'love', it's better to run the other way.

.

Too much love is never a bad thing. Sometimes it does get a little to hot to handle though.


RO 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary:

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

RO 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Originally posted by XplanetX
[
I see. So you are driven to believe in a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son, and by a fear of death and a promise of good things.

How pathetic.

Regards
DL

I do not fear death.

Good.

So I can only ask again. Why believe and follow a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by XplanetX

Too much love is never a bad thing. Sometimes it does get a little to hot to handle though.


RO 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary:

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

RO 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

You write this while following a God who is shown as sending the vast majority of souls to eternal torture.

Quite the love that.

Where was that love at Sodom or the great flood?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by XplanetX

Too much love is never a bad thing. Sometimes it does get a little to hot to handle though.


RO 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary:

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

RO 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

You write this while following a God who is shown as sending the vast majority of souls to eternal torture.

Quite the love that.

Where was that love at Sodom or the great flood?

Regards
DL

Love is patient.

He could have taken care of business much earlier.

Notice in each case that God preserves the people that truly Love him.


The Flood

GE 6:5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them." But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

GE 6:9 This is the account of Noah.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

GE 6:11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. Make a roof for it and finish the ark to within inches of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark--you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you. You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

GE 6:22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

GE 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.



Sodom & Gomorah


GE 19:12 The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here--sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."

GE 19:14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, "Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!" But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.

GE 19:15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."

GE 19:16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them. As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, "Flee for your lives! Don't look back, and don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"




Today, the blood of million's of innocent souls cry out from the ground to the LORD in exactly the same way that they have in the past. The rate of abortions around the world is climbing at an astonishing level.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by XplanetX
[
I see. So you are driven to believe in a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son, and by a fear of death and a promise of good things.

How pathetic.

Regards
DL

I do not fear death.

Good.

So I can only ask again. Why believe and follow a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son?

Regards
DL




I don't fear death due to the promise of God:


1CO 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

1CO 15:55 "Where, O death, is your victory?

Where, O death, is your sting?"

1CO 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["I don't fear death due to the promise of God:"]

And I don't fear death, because I don't fear death. It's just the loss of a pretty useless mundane identity.

Originally posted by XplanetX
[]

Thanks for showing the insane person that you follow.

No wonder that you do not mind God using genocide on us.

Seek help.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by XplanetX
[
I see. So you are driven to believe in a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son, and by a fear of death and a promise of good things.

How pathetic.

Regards
DL

I do not fear death.

Good.

So I can only ask again. Why believe and follow a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son?

Regards
DL

edit on 31-8-2011 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)

I don't fear death due to the promise of God:


1CO 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

1CO 15:55 "Where, O death, is your victory?

Where, O death, is your sting?"

1CO 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Thanks for not answering any question and bobbing and weaving away from an honest discussion.
You do my job for me of showing lurkers how dishonest theist are.
Keep up the good work for my side.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by XplanetX
[
I see. So you are driven to believe in a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son, and by a fear of death and a promise of good things.

How pathetic.

Regards
DL

I do not fear death.

Good.

So I can only ask again. Why believe and follow a genocidal murderer who even murders his own son?

Regards
DL

edit on 31-8-2011 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)

I don't fear death due to the promise of God:


1CO 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

1CO 15:55 "Where, O death, is your victory?

Where, O death, is your sting?"

1CO 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks for not answering any question and bobbing and weaving away from an honest discussion.
You do my job for me of showing lurkers how dishonest theist are.
Keep up the good work for my side.

Regards
DL



I did not dodge your question at all.

Which question do you refer to?

If it is the question that you refer to in the original post then I have already answered it. I am not going to repeat myself.

Thanks for not repeating foolishness then. It is just as foolish regardless of how often it is said.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Thanks for not repeating foolishness then. It is just as foolish regardless of how often it is said.

Regards
DL

PS 14:1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."

PR 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

PR 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding
but delights in airing his own opinions.

PR 28:26 He who trusts in himself is a fool,
but he who walks in wisdom is kept safe.

reply to post by XplanetX


From a perspective not using mythological assumption as its basis, the parallel to your quotes would be like this:

1/ ["PS 14:1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."]

From an agnostic position it would be: "Only a fool would say there IS a 'god'"

2/ ["PR 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline."]

From a liberal position it would be: "Fools follow self-proclaimed authority, and believe this to be wisdom".

3/ ["PR 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding
but delights in airing his own opinions."]

From a rational position it would be: "We find procedures for finding understanding, and leave it to fools to believe mythology is 'truth' "

4/ ["PR 28:26 He who trusts in himself is a fool,
but he who walks in wisdom is kept safe."]

From a logical position this would be: "We who don't have passive slave-minds can see, that self-proclaimed authority come in so many forms and with so many self-contained 'explanations', that only fools don't scrutinize the various claims first".

And in the end, when the throwing back and forth of who the real 'fools' are, the fools with a base in authority often fall back on violence, and thus is genocide eventually a question of giving yourselves 'rights'.

reply to post by bogomil




You just fit yourself 'perfectly' into the definiton of a fool according to God's own word.

The authority of God is not 'self proclaimed'. We have had many prophets from the ancient of days up to the present that have testified of God the Father, including his own Son Jesus who rose from the dead in accordance with the holy scriptures.

If I am wrong in my assessment and belief of the holy scriptures then I hope the 'spaghetti monster' has mercy on me.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["You just fit yourself 'perfectly' into the definiton of a fool according to God's own word."]

There's no end to bad things which 'believers' can say about people, who don't follow this or that extremist ideology. That's part of the self-contained circle-argumentation: "Me good, you bad."

Quote: ["The authority of God is not 'self proclaimed'. We have had many prophets from the ancient of days up to the present that have testified of God the Father, including his own Son Jesus who rose from the dead in accordance with the holy scriptures."]

Another circle-argument, allegedly justifying the initial circle-argument.

Quote: [" If I am wrong in my assessment and belief of the holy scriptures then I hope the 'spaghetti monster' has mercy on me."]

As 'gods' go, he's quite easy-going. He prefers matured whisky instead of blood, worship and petty revenge.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["You just fit yourself 'perfectly' into the definiton of a fool according to God's own word."]

There's no end to bad things which 'believers' can say about people, who don't follow this or that extremist ideology. That's part of the self-contained circle-argumentation: "Me good, you bad."

Quote: ["The authority of God is not 'self proclaimed'. We have had many prophets from the ancient of days up to the present that have testified of God the Father, including his own Son Jesus who rose from the dead in accordance with the holy scriptures."]

Another circle-argument, allegedly justifying the initial circle-argument.

Quote: [" If I am wrong in my assessment and belief of the holy scriptures then I hope the 'spaghetti monster' has mercy on me."]

As 'gods' go, he's quite easy-going. He prefers matured whisky instead of blood, worship and petty revenge.

I am not good, neither are you. This is not about good vs bad, it is about the mercy that all of us need from God our creator.

If two witnesses testify in court against the accused, the Judge will not rule out their testimony as irrelevant without hearing it first.

We have had many prophets witness to us about God and you rule them out based on a phony idea that it is a circular argument. The bible was not written by one person but many. There were five hundred witnesses of the resurrected Jesus, many of which died for their belief at the hands of the Romans.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["I am not good, neither are you."]

How can you possibly make such evaluations of other people, you hardly know? And why do you think, that your involved premises will be accepted?

Quote: ["This is not about good vs bad,...."]

No, it was about calling other people 'fools'.

Quote: ["it is about the mercy that all of us need from God our creator."]

Which is the assumption, you use as a personal guideline, but which isn't accepted by "all of us".

Quote: ["If two witnesses testify in court against the accused, the Judge will not rule out their testimony as irrelevant without hearing it first."]

I'm not against pragmatism, far from it. I'm against bad semantics and bad logics.

Quote: ["We have had many prophets witness to us about God...."]

That's your claim, yes.

Quote continued: ["...... and you rule them out based on a phony idea that it is a circular argument."]

I take it, that the 'phony' isn't the concept of circular arguments per se, but my application of the concept in the specifics on 'theism'. As you may know from standard logic, one of the criteria for truth/reality-seeking is uniform and predictable answers.

Your 'prophets' don't qualify (just on that point), so you maybe will be so forthcoming, that you present YOUR 'logics' (rational procedure ...etc), from where you make your 'prophets' housebroken.

Quote: ["The bible was not written by one person but many."]

To my knowledge the Donald Duck comics had local scriptwriters in every country....so this demonstrates what?

Quote: ["There were five hundred witnesses of the resurrected Jesus, many of which died for their belief at the hands of the Romans."]

So you have circled back to the starting-point......that the assumptions from your mythology form a validation of your mythology.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["I am not good, neither are you."]

How can you possibly make such evaluations of other people, you hardly know? And why do you think, that your involved premises will be accepted?

Quote: ["This is not about good vs bad,...."]

No, it was about calling other people 'fools'.

Quote: ["it is about the mercy that all of us need from God our creator."]

Which is the assumption, you use as a personal guideline, but which isn't accepted by "all of us".

Quote: ["If two witnesses testify in court against the accused, the Judge will not rule out their testimony as irrelevant without hearing it first."]

I'm not against pragmatism, far from it. I'm against bad semantics and bad logics.

Quote: ["We have had many prophets witness to us about God...."]

That's your claim, yes.

Quote continued: ["...... and you rule them out based on a phony idea that it is a circular argument."]

I take it, that the 'phony' isn't the concept of circular arguments per se, but my application of the concept in the specifics on 'theism'. As you may know from standard logic, one of the criteria for truth/reality-seeking is uniform and predictable answers.

Your 'prophets' don't qualify (just on that point), so you maybe will be so forthcoming, that you present YOUR 'logics' (rational procedure ...etc), from where you make your 'prophets' housebroken.

Quote: ["The bible was not written by one person but many."]

To my knowledge the Donald Duck comics had local scriptwriters in every country....so this demonstrates what?

Quote: ["There were five hundred witnesses of the resurrected Jesus, many of which died for their belief at the hands of the Romans."]

So you have circled back to the starting-point......that the assumptions from your mythology form a validation of your mythology.

edit on 4-9-2011 by bogomil because: addition

Making a comparison between prophets that died some gruesome deaths for their beliefs with Donald Duck scriptwriters is a very poor argument.

On that note, I must bid thee farewell for now. It is very late here in the land downunder.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["Making a comparison between prophets that died some gruesome deaths for their beliefs with Donald Duck scriptwriters is a very poor argument."]

I can only agree. Fortunately I didn't make such a comparison. I referred to the amount of bible-authors, not to the amount of assumed martyrs. Please show me the courtesy of relating to my posts instead of inventing words on my behalf.