Obama, Congress Reach a Debt Deal

Originally posted by Kojack
according to the US debt clock, we were at 5 trillion in 2000

after 8 years of bush, we were then up to 10 trillion

after 1 term with obama, we rose up to 14 trillion now

and we need 10 years to go down 2.4 trillion? when it took them 10 years together to raise us up roughly 9 trillion in debt?

im gonna start banging my head into the wall if someone doesnt rationally explain to me what the hell is going on

It's pretty simple. The monetary base needed to increase to save the economy. The only way to increase money in a debt based system is to go further into debt. Until we reach the proper equilibrium the government will need to continue borrowing money to support the economy. If they don't support it then we will wake up to bread lines and bank runs one of these days.

reply to post by METACOMET


Now is the time to email or call your senator or congressman. Let them know that we voted them in and can just as easily vote them out if they pass this increase in the debt ceiling.

900 billion increase in the debt ceiling right off the bat for the same in cuts over 10 years then 12 people will decide how to cut spending another 1.6 trillion over 10 years for a promise of 1.6 trillion increase in the debt ceiling. Tell me you guys aren't falling for this.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


There should be a run on banks tomorrow, luckily I have no money in any bank. But everybody should take their cash and GTFO! (of this scam called the banking system, that is).

....

can someone please set fire to the federal reserve building?

wait... they might try to spin that like the nazis with the reichstag....

Originally posted by Kojack
....

can someone please set fire to the federal reserve building?

wait... they might try to spin that like the nazis with the reichstag....

You better watch typing stuff like that.
The SS just might end up at your door

Just go into default, downgrade the triple "A" rating and file for bankruptcy as a nation. This deal won't help us get out of debt.

This supposed hack of a deal doesn't reduce the deficit one bit.

Lets see if the S&P and Moody's have the guts to downgrade the U.S. in their rating. Bet they don't those hacks.

reply to post by ldyserenity

There should be a run on banks tomorrow, luckily I have no money in any bank. But everybody should take their cash and GTFO! (of this scam called the banking system, that is).

This would only make the problem worse.

There's a little thing called the FDIC, and a practice known as "Fractional Reserve Banking." This practice, when done responsibly, would loan only based on long-term holdings - such as Certificates of Deposit, and provide some pretty stiff penalties for early withdraw.

Here's what happens - I deposit ten dollars into the bank. Yeah - I know - not very much money today - but back when the dollar actually meant something, it was big bucks. It also makes numbers easier to work with... so: $10 in the bank. I put it in a savings account - so it is under the pretense that I will not be touching it for a while. I want to grow that money. The bank says: "Okay, I can loan out $2 to this guy over here, and he will pay back $2.30 including interest within a month." After the bank is done, there is still ten dollars in the bank (probably a few pennies added in as my share of the interest for providing the capital to make a loan). Since I am not likely to come right back into the bank within the next couple months and drain the account - the bank is free to loan out a portion of that money.

Enter the Federal Reserve and FDIC - which ensure the value of an account and reinforce bank notes. Under their regulations - banks are to have at least a 10% reserve. There are two ways to interpret this: you can loan all but 10% of your holdings, or simply hold 10% of your loans.

Let's demonstrate: I deposit that same $10. The banks, under law, must keep a balance equal to at least 10% of their loaned amounts. So, they loan $100 to John Doe. The bank never had $100 to begin with - but they are still within the law.

How can they do this? Wouldn't I be pissed if I walked into the bank, asked for $5, and got told "Yeah... sorry... we loaned it all out."? But this doesn't happen - the FDIC insures all accounts up to $50,000 , last I remember. Further - let's say John Doe goes out and tries to run all of that loaned money through another bank. Money is processed through the Federal Reserve - which says, "Sure, here is $100." What if I come in and decide to take my money out? Even though the bank, quite literally, doesn't have it? The FDIC steps in and works through the Federal Reserve to reimburse my account.

This is a very extreme example - but it points out the issues involved.

First - we are a loan-driven society. This bull# needs to stop. Somehow, we got off on this mentality of living paycheck-to-paycheck. For whatever reason, Americans tend to be allergic to saving and create 'needs' for loans and other bills that consume each week's paycheck. It is like you are somehow invalid if you can't say: "I'm just trying to make ends meet."

To hell with that noise - I'll live in combined housing and drive an economy car so I can put more money away.

Second - the value of the dollar and credibility of a bank has been completely undermined. In a free banking economy, banks are held accountable for their practices. In the system we have, the banks really have no separate identities. U.S. Bank can drastically impact the value of the dollar held by other banks regardless of their practices. In a free system - this would simply not happen (though there would be a lot of very-very angry and financially damaged customers - but the way things are, currently, a national-branch bank with poor practices can do massive amounts of damage to the value of the dollar as a whole).

So... anyway - rushing in to take out your money is not going to solve the problem. It will only lead to another bail-out of the banks by the FDIC - further inflating the value of the dollar, which is something we don't need.

Personally sitting on the outside looking in, all along I could not help but think this was brinkmanship and horse trading that simply would not help the American people

Yet another manufactured smoke and mirror event

Originally posted by citizen6511
reply to post by METACOMET

 

2 trillion over 10 years, that's 200 billion a year.

a half honest foreign policy could save that much just in military spending.

the USA has between 500 to 700 military bases around the world.

the cold war ended 20 years ago, yet we are still in Guantanamo.

is there a sane person on this planet who believe Cuba could or would attack the USA.

it's all just layers of corruption.

the corrupt politics of the right wing in Florida is why we are wasting american tax dollars in Cuba.

with so much dishonesty, how can you balance a budget?

Seriously... I have never understood why America keeps policing the world like they do, when there's so much gardening to be done at home. Cut down the entire army to a size that is enough to sustain local defenses. Let the god damn world run itself.... that might breath a little air into the budget. How much was it that the US spends every day on waging war across the world?

Why are the American citizens rising up against this kind of irresponsible way of thinking?

Ha I knew it! See, I wasn't worried at all. They never mentioned once during this crisis that American Idol might be cancelled, so I was never worried. If they threaten to take away my American Idol, well, I guess I'll be forced to watch Survivor then. Besides I'm a citizen, my intelligence if far below that of even a low I.Q'ed politician....

Numbers don't lie: The salary of a congressman varies. Rank and file members of both the House and the Senate make a salary of $174,000 annually. The Speaker of the House makes $223,500 annually and the House Majority and Minority leaders both make $193,400 annually. In the Senate, the Majority and Minority leaders also make $193,400 annually. Sounds to me, like job security!

reply to post by flice

Seriously... I have never understood why America keeps policing the world like they do, when there's so much gardening to be done at home. Cut down the entire army to a size that is enough to sustain local defenses. Let the god damn world run itself.... that might breath a little air into the budget. How much was it that the US spends every day on waging war across the world?

en.wikipedia.org...

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion.

For a nice graphical comparison: www.heritage.org...

Including Social Security in the mix is a little debatable (but plenty of other sources do it). Regardless - yes, the military is a big-hitter. But medicare/medicaid spending is increasing by leaps and bounds. It is projected to cost us $2T at 8.8% of GDP by 2020. U.S. Military spending currently sits around 4.3-4.5% of GDP.

Party time! Everybody in Washington give yourself a pat on the back for a job well done. Oh isn't it grand? I knew these jokers were going to make a deal at the zero hour like they have done in the past. It is a manipulation play. Both sides get to blame the other, instill fear in the masses, gain a vote here and there, and on and on. Just another political parlor game by our benevolent politicians. Two trillion dollars in cuts over 10 years? Are you kidding me?!

Then, they still want to continue raising the debt ceiling? It is already nearly 15 trillion dollars. This is not over by a long shot, and it will show its ugly head again. They are just fixing things with bubble gum and rubber bands. The whole thing is doomed to collapse. The spending is the problem and that was not addressed in this latest agreement. The cuts are a drop in the bucket, and the is still an open ended debt limit. Nothing was solved by any of this, and this crisis will feel like a Swedish massage until we see the real affects of this fiscal nightmare.

Some predictions are collapse of the dollar, empty store shelves, widespread paralysis in the economy, everybody and their mothers unemployed drinking water out of gutters and living in shanty towns, martial law, chaotic civil unrest, and other doom and gloom scenarios. They will not stop until they have spent us into oblivion. So much for holding the line and reigning in this disaster? Maybe next time, and that is if there is a next time? The scuttling of America can continue . . .

reply to post by Jakes51


And they are raising the Debt Ceiling by 2 trillion dollars?

So how is that doing anything except freeing up 2 more trillion dollars to spend?



Believing that the career politicians up in Congress can fix the mess that they were bribed into creating is... I don't even have a word for it.

Originally posted by Timing
reply to post by Jakes51

 

And they are raising the Debt Ceiling by 2 trillion dollars?

So how is that doing anything except freeing up 2 more trillion dollars to spend?

 

Believing that the career politicians up in Congress can fix the mess that they were bribed into creating is... I don't even have a word for it.

Good point! Robbing Peter to pay Paul? One hand washes the other? We are in for a world of hurt. Better fortify the bunker, get a ham radio, and stock it up with can goods. We are in for a long winter. Very disappointed by all of it.

No surprise that if you elected a man saturated in Alynski style subversion - that this is what he would aim for is it!?

Cloward-Piven Paradise Now? By Jeannie DeAngelis

Combine class warfare, demonizing the rich, getting as many people onto the welfare rolls as possible, and pushing the economic system to collapse and you have a flawless formula for Cloward-Piven 2.0 -- and a vehicle that ensures Obama remains in power.

Cloward-Piven is a much talked-about strategy proposed in the mid-1960's by two Columbia University sociology professors named Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. The Cloward-Piven approach was sometimes referred to as the "crisis strategy," which they believed were a means to "end poverty." The premise of the Cloward-Piven collective/anti-capitalist gospel decried "individual mobility and achievement," celebrated organized labor, fostered the principle that "if each finally found himself in the same relative economic relationship to his fellows ... all were infinitely better off."

The duo taught that if you flooded the welfare rolls and bankrupted the cities and ultimately the nation, it would foster economic collapse, which would lead to political turmoil so severe that socialism would be accepted as a fix to an out-of-control set of circumstances.

www.americanthinker.com...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000
Doesnt anyone ever add interest to the math, right now we are paying 29 billion a month on the 14.5 trillion now you are adding 2.4 trillion more to deficet so you are paying more interest add it up over 10 years where is the savings.We the American people just got taken to the wood shed by our so called elected officails.Yahoo and yippie skippy.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by citizen6511

 

ditto heard the same argument in response and i will say the same thing i said then

police,fireman and local government are local issues and state issues not the federal government

and tax revenue is needed to even begin to pay for those services is non existent when there is a large influx of unemployed people returning from service.

for far too long tax dollars are take from one state and given to another state that gets no benefit from that tax revenue.
[edits by]edit on 31-7-2011 by neo 96 because: (no reason given)